FIVESQUARE

Mr. Dazzler....Just what do suggest I do????
I have turned him in....Have YOU written anything to HIM??????
I am trying here...I do not need your help!
What would you do!

mvigod

Guys,

Let's bring this thread back to the facts about the engines and opinions as such and leave anything personal out of it please. If you have differences of opinions about these motors or anything else you can express those ideas here but let's leave out the personal stuff. If you truly feel the desire to take it further for whatever reason you must do it through email and not the forums as they are here for information.

If one party or both do not want to be contacted back channel than please just leave it alone and move on to discuss the facts. It's a hobby and supposed to be fun so there is really no reason to make things personal no matter how much you believe in your opinion about a product or company. Voice your facts or opinions and readers will draw their conclusions themselves.

Thanks.

FIVESQUARE

Well Marc,
If that is all you have to say ......so be it.
5

mvigod

5,

thanx for understanding.

marc

outssider

My Feedback: (23)

Whyes......here is my dilemma. I (as well as a lot of others on this forum) have recently purchased the new 60/90 aero-works edge ARF. I / we all were hoping for a plane that would have an all up weight of 7.5 lb (high end of what they advertised). However, if we assemble the kit exactly as per the instructions we are getting close to 9 lb ( with 20.5 oz engine ). There is much I/we are doing to the ARF to get the weight down, but 7.5 lb all up weight, is looking harder and harder to achieve

I believe that we all were originally hoping to use a 91 size engine or (100 saito). I personally wanted to try out that new 100 saito in the plane due to it's light weight. Since the plane is heavier than we all expected everyone is scrambling for a plan B. Some of us are going through much lightening (expense) while others are just going to a larger engine.
I personally am trying to lighten and use either the saito 100 or the ys 91. I own a saito but not a ys. I have buddies that have both the 100 saito and the ys 91. My personal gut feeling is the 91 ys has more power. But how much more (using the same fuel) ? Also my gut feeling is that saito is better at turning a large diameter prop, with less pitch, slower and a ys is better at turning a smaller diameter ,with more pitch, at a much higher rpm. I am not going to consider any prop for this plane under 15" diameter.
Also another thing to mention here is obviously the ys 91 has a far superior carboration and fuel delivery system compared to the saito 100. Although, the 100 seems improved over other saito models.


This is getting to be quite a long story hu!!


So I guess the big question is..... using a 15/6 apc and identical fuel, will the ys make enough additional power over the saito 100 to justify the extra 6-7 oz of weight?????

Oh and by the way whyes....I have been watching your comments about ys engines for at least 2 years, so i know you are very pro ys. In light of this biass....if you wish to comment on my post....I would appreciate only facts and not your opinion!!

outssider

My Feedback: (23)

Whyes......I have not bought any engine for it yet!!.... I said I would like to try the saito 100......but......I don't know what i will get...first things first...lighten.... lighten ...lighten...I will pull every trick I know to lighten....then servos ...electrical gear...last will be the purchase of the engine...I am keeping an open mind when it comes to the engine...however I do like 4 strokes due to the torque curve !!
I do agree with you that 120 saito is very close, (torque wise) with the 91 ys. In that case,,, the saito 120 would not be the choice because it weighs a couple ounces more than the 91 ys.

I believe you have a lot of 91 ys's don't you???...how about putting on a 15/6 apc and some 20/20 fuel or 15%... I don't really care which fuel you use... and then tell me exactly what rpm you get....and while your at it .......since you have a saito 100, try the saito also,... with the same prop and fuel and lets hear some of your numbers.....I would love to get my hands on both engines to do some rpm comparisons....with the same fuel, the same prop, the same outside temperature, and the same altitude...you can?? ...can't you???? So why not do it.... and get back to all of us who want the answers to these questions!!

FIVESQUARE

Because he can't....nuff said....He is a ........nuff said.
5

Aerosplat

My Feedback: (12)

Whyes,
I too have the AW Edge, and am struggling with the engine situation. I strongly second Outsider's sugestion. If you have both engines, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do a side by side comaprison and let the rest of know the true and actual difference.
Thanks, Robert.

FIVESQUARE

WHYES:
I too am interested in comparing the engines.
You seem to be very knowledgeable about the engines in question, and you have several of them both....Why don't you write us all a review on the differences.
I am sure with your undoubted skills we can all benefit.
Please include prop differences, torque, idle, rpm, and an overall critique of the situation. A weight and price review would be nice too.
We will be looking forward to your results.

Good luck, and don't forget to feed us litttle tibits before your final report...We are waiting.

I would like to thank you in advance.
FIVESQUARE

Scorpionjack

All this is giving you is a comparison with a Saito 91 and a YS 91 AC.
The YS 91 FZ is even stronger and the Japanese are running them with 23-30% Nitro They are turning well in the 10K range with the same props as the Saito's which are well below in the 9-9500K range.
The Saito 100 being that it is a tad larger, should turn props atleast in the ranges shown for the Saito 91 +300-700K more. But it should swing a 15 X 7 probably in the same range as the 91 Saito.

The Saito 100 though will not turn the RPM's that a YS can it's just not designed for it or could it hold up to the RPM's a YS is capable of doing.

YS's I hear people make comments of special handling hmmm. If you call putting your tank on the CG special (I call it better for flight performance). If you call leaving the Glow off with the throttle closed and using and electric start for 3 Sec. for a pre-Pressurizing of the tank special(I call it proper operation for a pump). Well anyhow you get the picture here are the number you all have been wanting.

Saito 0.91 14.9 APC 13 9 9000 15%
Saito 0.91 14.9 MA 13 8 3b 9000 YS20/20 blend
Saito 0.91 14.9 APC 13 9 9300 YS20/20 blend
Saito 0.91 14.9 Scimitar 13 8 10100 YS20/20 blend
Saito 0.91 14.9 APC 13 8 10200 15% Omega
Saito 0.91 14.9 Scimitar 14 7 8500 15% Wildcat
Saito 0.91 14.9 Graupner 14 7 8700 YS20/20 blend
Saito 0.91 14.9 Scimitar 14 7 8800 YS20/20 blend
Saito 0.91 14.9 MA 14 6 9400 15% Wildcat
Saito 0.91 14.9 MA 14 6 9600 YS20/20 blend
Saito 0.91 14.9 Scimitar 14 7 9600 15% Omega
Saito 0.91 14.9 MA 14 6 10100 15% Omega
YS .91AC 14.9 Graupner 13.5 8 11200 15% Omega
YS .91AC 14.9 Graupner 14 7 3b 8200 15% Omega
YS .91AC 14.9 Graupner 14 7 10000 15% Omega
YS .91AC 14.9 Scimitar 14 8 10000 15% Omega
YS .91AC 14.9 APC 14 8 10200 15% Omega
YS .91AC 14.9 Zinger 15 8 8500 15% Omega

Have Fun

FIVESQUARE

You went all around the bush......but you failed to post any of the info on the Saito 100.......
Nice post...thank you
5

outssider

My Feedback: (23)

Whyes......If you could do this...it would be very helpful to so many.... and I, for one, would be eternally in your debt.

I don't want to be a pain about this but
I have a couple of requests before you start

1....use at least a 15" prop...use the exact same prop on both engines.
2....use the same fuel
3.....try to peak the engine out and get an rpm reading at the peak (don't leave it there long enough to burn up the engine ......I don't expect you to ruin your engines on our account)


the reason i want the 15" prop used is because this is the proper prop in this situation, even 16" possibly...I already suspect that the ys will greatly out perform the saito with a 13/10

Teachu2

My Feedback: (133)

Thank you, Whyes, for agreeing to perform this test fo all of us. Hard data is hard to come by!

OnTheEdge

Since we're amongst a lot of YS experienced flyers (although off subject a tad), how much better is the YS91FZ than the 91AC version? I have two of the 91AC's and one's still NIB. Wondering if I should sell and spend a few more bucks for the FZ. Any difference in weight?

Thanks...........Mark

mglavin

My Feedback: (31)

I have several YS-91's turning APC 13/12's at 9000 plus rpm on 20% fuel. Some even make it to 9600rpm on 45% fuel... I use them in Warbird pylon racers.

Scorpionjack

Michael;
All I can tell you is I've always enjoyed the AC. Now a small point of Interest was that all of the Okinawan's that I just left in April changed out their AC engines for FZ last year. Why? I can only say by flying the FZ it's uplines and response surpassed the AC on F3A aircraft. They increased the pitch of their props by 1 or 2, some even went to 13 or 14 12's. The Japanese are very particular when it comes to having the best(finicky is more the word). They spend $2K just on an F3A 60 size Acft and put 91FZ on them. There was one F3A aircraft that was $10K it was all Carbon Fibre(Off subject). But all said and done the FZ is suberb, doesn't miss a heartbeat through the whole tank. With a tuned pipe it is quiet and sounds great.

Have Fun

BTW Michael my Son-in-law which I taught him and partially was teaching my Grandson live in Marysville. They fly mostly at Beale.

outssider

My Feedback: (23)

WHYES......I don't expect you to run them lean.... Just peak them and immediately back off. If you want to wait until they have some time on them,,,I'd rather wait !!
If you run them both sloppy rich, then report back those rpm's...that won't help us much!

mglavin

My Feedback: (31)

Scorp

We have a number of guys come down from the Marsyville area and race with us. One of them is stationed at Beale if I recall. Others fly there.

The 91-FZ's were seeing and I own average about a 300-500rpm increase over and above the 91-AC's...

I have yet to try a tuned pipe on a racing plane with te YS Engines. Anybody have any input or experience with the tuned systems from a performance standpoint. Noise is not an issue as we run the exhaust header only...

Scorpionjack

Michael;
The tuned pipes for YS engines are not for performance. Even on my F3A's there is no performance increase only astetics. I run them on a YS63,91,120 and 140 with no performance value or RPM increase. Atleast nothing presentable. Now on the other hand I had Mr. Ikigami(I think thats right) the Lead Engineer for Hirobo show me a Power increase for the YS63. Take a OS 91 bent exhaust pipe and a YS91 Muffler with the baffle removed and you will see a 63 that has the power of all the Mid-range 91/90's.

Hope this helps

FIVESQUARE

Would you mind much to put it in ounces.....?
Some of us arkies thought a gram was a cracker
I weigh 225lbs...geez how many grams is that???

Thanks,
5

outssider

My Feedback: (23)

ok...so that is about a hair over a 7 oz difference right?? by my calculations!!

outssider

My Feedback: (23)

FIVESQUARE.......102,150 gm....that's a lot of crackers!!

outssider

My Feedback: (23)

Well, ...I already know the ys has a much,... much..... far ...far...better carboration and fuel delivery system than any current model saito could possibly ever hope to have,,, so... i'm patiently waiting for those numbers....

FIVESQUARE

Thanks for keeping us in suspense outssider......
5

Aerosplat

My Feedback: (12)

Hey 5square,

Grams X .0353 = Ounces
Ounces X 28.3527 = Grams

There is a good metric conversion site at
http://www.convert-me.com/en/