DiscoWings

My Feedback: (76)

Hi,

I have an OS 160 setup with a pump, however the engine keeps quitting in the air. Runs great on the ground but in the air its a differnt story..Some of the dead sticks are getting kind of crazy.
Anyone have instructions on how to set it up properly? We tapped the crankcase at the backplate (where the connecting rod would not rub up against it. We have not adjusted the pump only high and low speed. I think somoene said somehting about the pump needs to be regulated for the mid range but I'm not sure.

Any help would be appreciated.[&o]

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The Perry instructions say....

Turn the high speed screw out 3 additional turns... The engine should be able to run excessively rich at high speed

If not, turn the pump screw "IN" to where the engine does run rich at high speed

Reset the high speed needle to "peak" the engine at high speed.

Go to low speed and set the idle mixture.

Now check the mid range....

If the mid range is "rich", back off on your pump screw to adjust the mid range.

If the mid range is lean, then you need to turn the screw "in"

Do not turn the adjusting screw in to less than 1/32".

Do not remove the adjusting screw.

Adjust the needle valves for proper flight mixture.

If left setting for a while, loop a piece of fuel line between the inlet and outlet of the pump.

The OS 160 is typically a good runner with the Perry pump when adjusted correctly.

Enjoy,

Jim

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Yup, thats typical of Perry pumps. Ya just never can quite get them tweaked for best performance. They run great in the air---but flood the engine on the ground so bad that you can't start it. Or, they run fine on the ground--as yours does--and they lean out and the engine dies when your trying to fly. Not much fun.[&o]

Yes, throw it in the trash and buy a Cline regulator. You've already got the backplate tapped. Save your self some grief and maybe save your plane. Toss the Perry pump in the trash where it belings and get a Cline.

Correct. The perry pump needs to be regulated right into the trashcan. It's a simple procedure. Simply remove the unit from your engine and forcibly insert the pump into the trashcan. Immediately take the trash out ot the curb and call the local refuse truck for immediate pick-up. You don't want to stand around and thinnk about it for any length of time--you could end up tempted to fool with it some more and waste valuable hobby time--instead setting your plane up properly with a Cline.

Sorry if I sound harsh. I've tried these POS Perry pumps. It's all BS. They don't work properly. Stop wasting your time and put a smile on your face with a Cline. I hate to see anyone suffer. I hate to see guys struggle with problems like this. I've been through it. I've done it. It don't work. It's frustrating and nerve racking. It's no fun.

Just buy a Cline and you'll be happy. I promise you that. Happy new year.

LuvBipes

My Feedback: (4)

So Rcpilet, tell us how you REALLY feel about it!!!

Happy New Year!

Lowlevlflyer

My Feedback: (3)

I'll have to agree, the Cline regulator is WAY easier to set up than the Perry pump.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The Perry will not prevent the flow of fuel to the carb. If your tank is too high, the engine will flood. In this case use a Cline.

The OS 160 usually does real well with a Perry. But the Mark/Moki's do not seem to do as well as the OS.

Some engines that do not work well with a Perry hooked directly to the needle valve will work great when the Perry is set up to pump in a loop to a point beside the carb with a return line back to the tank.

Anytime you ad a pump or Demand regulator like the Cline, you have added more technical devices that can work great but are potential for more trouble.

Enjoy,

Jim

jaka

Hi!
Sorry! But why use a pump when the engine runs soo good without one?

Regards!
Jan K
Sweden

Chris Moon

My Feedback: (8)

The 1.60 w/ a Perry pump in unbelieveably reliable IF it is set right. First, the Perry will pump waaaay too much at the factory setting so most people just lean out the needle to try and get it going. This will cause the motor to lean out in flight and die. What you should do is disconnect the pump and run the motor right from the tank and get it running good on the ground. Then, reconnect the pump and adjust only the pump until it runs at the needle setting you already have. You will need to reduce the pump a lot (several turns). Then fly it and tweak the needles if necessary. This works every time.

DiscoWings

My Feedback: (76)

I have an aerobatic plane and would like to place the tank at the CG. I heard you have to use a pump for that[]

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

That is correct

Enjoy,

Jim

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Incorrect.

You have to use a Cline regulator for that.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Well, I don't want to be accused of being wishy washy on this subject. And I certainly don't want anyone calling me a waffler or a mush mouth.

I think the Perry pumps SUUUUCK.

Thats how I REALLY feel about it.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I prefer Clines also but the guy asked about a Perry.

Enjoy,

Jim

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Not exactly. I did this with my 1.60; broke it in on the bench and got the needles close to optimum after almost a gallon of fuel; then installed it and the VP 30.

That was almost two months ago. I've been fighting that POS ever since. What really is the biggest problem is its inconsistency; it will behave one way today, then behave another way after no adjustments the next day. So all attempts at trouble-shooting end up in hair-pulling sessions.

In 18 years of handling model engines, the only set-up that has given me as much grief has been a YS 91FZ. And that engine ran superbly for almost a year, before it began behaving in a bizarre manner. I have tried everything imaginable; there is obviously something about my particular set-up (which I have changed/modified three times) that isn't "right". Or, it might be as simple as a bad pump. This is my first one, so I don't know enough about it to be able to tell the difference. I did use a Cline regulator on another plane, and it was indeed a no-brainer; wish I hadn't sold it along with that model...[&o]

Anyway, I'm done with this thing. I bought this airplane/engine combo to try IMAC flying. I'm hooked on that, but the only decent practice I've gotten so far has been with a friend's gasser. I'm very impressed with the power and reliability of these 50cc gas engines. So I'll be getting a gas engine for this Extra, with an eye toward later acquisition of a 30% airplane.

There is nothing wrong with this 1.60; it is doing exactly what that miserable pump tells it to do. It will be pickled for later use in a 73" Edge I've got NIB in the corner. It will be normally plumbed, with the tank up inside the motor box, just behind the firewall. I'll bet it works just fine there.

This "tank on the CG" thing is what got me into this mess in the first place. Yes, it is important for a serious competitior or someone wanting the absolute optimum set-up on his aerobatic/3D model. But while I want to be a better pilot, I'm not going to get too anal about it, either. I'll put up with a shifting CG for the joy of a reliable engine.

Rcpilet, since you're so enamored of these pumps, I'll sell you this one cheap...

.

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

I prefer the Cline over the Perry. I have spent a lot of time trying to get the Perry working correctly on my Moki 1.80. And it does indeed seem to be inconsitent how it performs. I actually did get my Moki 1.80 to run with the pump but it rattles at mid range (lean) and does not sound/perform nearly as good and consistent as my Moki 2.10 with Cline regulator. The Cline is bulletproof, and its main purpose if for tanks on CG or far from the engine. It has many other good properties as well.

The Perry seems to make most Moki's midrage too rich. Then if you install the bypass loop as a cure, it syphones carb's inlet fuel back to the tank and flames out the engine in uplines and hovers. So I installed a brass nipple in the bypass and pinched it off with a needle nose. It still leaks a little past the crimp, just enough to bleed off the pressure that builds during certain conditions. So I basically got lucky as it seems to run ok (not good) with this fluke of a fix. I can tell from the feel of the plane and the sound of the engine that it's still not at 100% like my 2.10 with the Cline on it. I'm too lazy and cheap to put the Cline on the 1.80 since it runs ok, but the next time I put the engine in another plane a Cline is going on it.

BTW, a friend at my club had the OS 1.60 and Perry pump on a Goldberg Obsession. It ran good for a few flights, then one day the engine flamed out down low and he totaled the aircraft. This is a guy that knows his gear and flies very well (15 year in the hobby). So maybe I should take that Perry out of my CAP232 120 and just get the Cline the more I think about it.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

How about I send you $5--and you throw it in the trash for me.[:'(][:'(][:'(]

Your 160 will work great with the Cline. You might try that with the NIB 73" Edge and put the tank on the CG. The Cline was MADE for putting the tank on the CG.

STG

My Feedback: (26)

I have had very good luck with the VP30 pump. It works especially well on the 1.6FX with no bypass system needed. I have herd the Cline to work even better, but have had such great results with the VP30 that I just acquired 2 more (to run on 2 1.6FX's)--I did not go with the VP30 over the Cline just to save $20.00.

1) Are you sure the pump is causing your problems?

2) When you say it runs good on the ground are you sure you are using the exact throttle settings on the ground as you are in the air? If the pump is installed correctly and if you cannot get it to act up at all on the ground ( that means moving the throttle stick all over the place--trying to simulate the stick positions you use in the air and the time at the positions) It is hard for me to believe it is pumping differently in the air.

Don't get me wrong, I am not disputing that some people are having problems with the pumps and I am not saying they did something wrong...I just have had very good results--Knock on Wood.

Theoretically the pump adds a mid range adjustment.

Low range -- idle needle

Mid range -- Pump pressure

High range -- Hi speed needle

Flyer95

My Feedback: (1)

I have been running perry regulators for only about six months now but the more I think about it the more I agree with the method you have described[sm=thumbup.gif].
My first regulator was installed on my Irvine 53 with a APC 13x6 and a tuned pipe and saved me from fueldraw problems I had before the installation. I think I am gonna try some bigger props just for fun of it as it turns like crazy with this prop.
My 13 years old Super tiger S90K with a Magnum 108 carb. also on a tuned pipe turns a 16x7 master airscrew scimitar and the fuel draw is good here too[sm=thumbup.gif] and the engine runs very quiet.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

[quote]ORIGINAL: STG

Theoretically the pump adds a mid range adjustment.

/quote]

Well, you know the difference between theory and reality, don't you?

No, I'm not sure its the pump. But seeing as I've changed everything else, that doesn't leave much, eh?

Moot point. When I pull the 1.60 to install the new gas engine, that VP30 is going where RCpilet wishes it to be...

STG

My Feedback: (26)

Yep

Runs fine in the air without the pump?


Sounds like you have a bad one.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

It ran fine on the bench without the pump. To run it without the pump in the air, I would have to move the tank up into the motor box. That would entail major surgery to relocate the throttle linkage/servo and a few other details.

If I have to go through all of that, I'll just make a complete engine change while I'm at it. I've been planning to try a gas engine; this is just the impetus I need to get off my arse and do it. The H9 Extra 260 flies beautifully; but is useless without reliable power.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Once you go gas--you'll never go back.

That 260 just screams for a 35-40cc gas engine.

If you decide to keep the 160FX--put a Cline on it. That will put a smile on your face.

I use the Cline on little 40 size planes too. Because I want the tank on the CG. I currently have the Cline on a Powerline Edge 540. It's a 46 size plane with a Tower Hobbies .75 engine. The Tower engine has a nice aluminum plug on the backplate so that you can tap it and install the nipple without worrying about hitting the crank pin with the nipple threads.

The engine is mounted inverted and I have a RamTek on-board glow unit on it as well. I've done this before on a CMP 3D Giles. It works like a charm. I open the throttle to full and choke it for about 6 flips. Then pull it back down to idle and the OBG lights the plug. 2 flips and it's purrin' like a kitten. The OBG shuts down at just under 1/4 throttle. This has got to be the smoothest running inverted 2-stroke setup I've ever had. No flame outs. No flooding. No lean running. Just the sweat sound of a 2-stroke purrin' along.

You might try a Cline and an OBG system on your 160FX if your not quite ready to buy the gas engine yet.

Me? I'd put a gasser on it. You've got the square inches on the wing to handle it. You can put the tank on the CG. You can fly it on a 14oz tank.

brettwegner

While you are at the bin throwing the Perry pump, follow thru with the 160FX.!!!! just my opionion of course. but these engines are either just CRAP!! or so fussy you have to have everyting spot on for them to run.

If it needs a pump or reglator to run it should be suplied with one !!!!!!!!!!!!

STG

My Feedback: (26)

[sm=lol.gif]

Kweasel

My Feedback: (29)

Using a Perry pump at high pressure with the needle closed to compensate is the formula for a lean run once the rpm increases in the air. Using a large crankcase tap and mounting the pump as close as possible maximizes its efficiency. Turning down the pump pressure makes tuning easy and reliable but also requires the tank to be mounted properly. If the tank is too high or low the pump cannot overcome acceleration forces nearly as well as it can with the pressure all the way up.