....American motors don't like soy sauce....
....look what it did to my K&B....

I CAN"T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!

I have heard this bashing at our club every time I go. I have remained silent as not to offend some good friends who I respect and who's flying ability is greater than mine, but..................... some of this talk is cr*p. I see guy's using GMS engines in spad dogfights, I mean dogfights, mid air collisions, crashes , high revs, over lean flights. Super great fun to watch. I have seen engines lost for months in the weather, bolts replaced with over sized slotted screws, in short these things are treated like cow fodder.......... no worse than cow fodder. Well DUHHH!. I would like to see someone bolt on a YS or Saito on these spads and see what happens. They probably would not fair much better, but then no one will because they would not want to abuse their stuff like that....... go figure.

I have GMS's and never touch the needle settings, great power and low idle. OS they are not and they do take longer to break in.

There now I feel better!

Peter,

You're a good man. There are a few bad ones out there but the ones everyone are talking about on here are actually name brands anymore. I have them all and though some are not the most powerful kid on the block, they run just fine. They are not anymore trouble than OS to me.

Jim

The quality control for Gms seems poor,bearings wear out fast,some carburators don't work,some crankshafts are different than others[causing major vibration problem],and it seems only1 out of 4 of them can be shut off from the transmitter.
Speaking of GMS's on spads they always sag on a high G turns and you have to run them out of gas to land because they will not turn off.Mufflers will break fast if you have one with a bad crank.If you wear out your bearings in a couple months don't count on any warranty.
GMS's problems have nothing to do with tweaking the needle valve.

That is just one aspect when the carb is leaking(around the o-ring) and sucking air! I have witness this at my field, and every time the piolt had some rebuilding to do after it would dead stick. I'm sure there are some out there running well.

Doug

Flyboy Dave, were you frying or baking in the oven? It looks like you scorched the piston, either from not turning it over enough or you had the burner set too high! Soy burns at high heat... I bet you had to scrape that pot out with a Brillo pad!
All kidding aside, what happened? Too lean? No oil??? I need to know, I don't want that to happen to mine! Looks Ugly!

I loaned a used K&B .61 (first mistake) to a friend.
He put a plastic spinner on it, which turned out was
out of balance. The o-ring on the low speed needle
was weak (but ok), and during the flight the needle
vibrated and turned in (lean). He was running it wide
open....and the thing gradually leaned out until it seized.

As you can see....the ring was stuck, and it was fried
BIG TIME. I put a good used piston, ring, and liner in it.

(and a new o-ring)

Dave,

Now I know why you stocked up at the MECOA sale.


ZB

Jimmy,

You know it.....It's nice to have some new parts.

I've had some success with Tower .46 engines. Found that the low speed adjustment was critical. Also, they responded better to a mousse can muffler than to the stock muffler or the muffled tuned pipes I tried. I ran one kind of inverted, and tended to foul out plugs and burn them shortly after startup after sitting. My problem was that I used after run oil that tended to soak the plug since it was inverted. All that oil caused problems. If I replaced the plug with an old one during storage, the problem went away. Also found that there is air leakage around carb attachment bolt. A dab of silicone seal after installation should cure that. Good luck!

Sorry guys, but in my experience most modelers can't tune their way out of a wet paper bag. Their idea of tuning is tweek tweek tweek the high speed needle to get every last RPM out of the engine, only to have the engine quit two minutes into the flight.

A lot of engines get unfairly labeled as "bad" because their owners are incapable of operating them properly. I like it because I get some pretty sweet deals on "bad" engines that simply need a little TLC at the carburetor. It's not the person's fault; they're just not interested in learning. There are engines for these kinds of people: OS. However, don't buy ground chuck then complain because it's not prime rib.

Don't get me wrong. There are BAD engines out there, but most of 'em aren't. If MDS, GMS, etc. were all bad right out of the box, how could the company stay in business? There aren't that many new people coming into the hobby, and word about a particular brand of engine being bad would get around eventually.

When you see a disproportionate number of complaints about a particular brand of engine here, you have to take it with a grain of salt. People with bad experiences tend to complain loudly, while people with good experiences are usually quietly content.

I have had two ASP .40's and loved them both. When they start to flame out in climbing or inverted flight after hundreds of flights , it may be that the cylinder/piston fit is too loose causing reduced fuel draw. If your tired ASP has nil compression after running and is really hard to re-start, this is a clue. Of course check for air leaks in fuel lines, carb O-rings, etc,etc. With this cheap an engine, it is probably wiser to buy a complete new engine than to replace a worn cylinder and piston. I read somewhere that the ABC type engines are not happy with running slow/ rich for extended perods of time and that this prematurely wears piston fit. The opposite is really dumb, don't try to fly an engine set for max rpm on the ground with a big prop and expect it to last. Find an experienced somebody who knows how to set high and low needles (before you fly) if you are not sure how.

BTW, Which US supplier sells ASP engines now?

Hobby People/Global sells them as Magnums.

Horizon let their ASP business dry up for some reason?

Where in the US can you get those cheap SC engines? I just got a TS .53 for my son, and it's way more powerful thn any .46 I've run. 2 tanks and it idles and transitions reliably. Nice machine work on this one also.

SC is the same as Magnum. They are advertising their new 52 2 cycle engine now.

Hobby People are quite proud of the new Magnum 52,

ZB

Does anyone know what these letters stand for? I do. When a person sells his GMS....it means "Got Mine Sold". When a person buys an ASP...it means "Assume Someones Problems"......sorry but I just couldn't resist!!

China has never been known for it's quality but, occasionally they get one right. My 47 is a super running engine and has never died on me in flight and will even shut off using my kill switch. I have to be honest though, the first one I bought went back to Mecoa before I even had a chance to run it. They replaced it with a good one, they probably hand picked it.


Todd.

No kidding. Too bad more people won't admit to it. If they did, it would certainly give new modelers a better set of facts to base their engine purchases on.

China has never been known for their metal quality either. I remember an article from several years ago where a popular gun magazine did a "destructive test" on the Springfield M1A, and the Norinco (Chinese) import M1A. The tests included such things as 500 round rapid fire, then dunk the gun in water. If I recall correctly, the Norinco failed before 1000 rounds went through it... Broken springs. The US made Springfield? Well, it went on for thousands of rounds before it ceased to function due to being extremely dirty.

I'd love to see such an extreme test conducted on the Japanese engines vs. the Chinese engines. I'd bet the Japanese engines come out shining like diamonds. Some would argue that no one would ever subject their engines to such treatment as a hot, lean run, then dunk in water to cool and repeat, but personally I take comfort in the knowledge that my extra money went toward better metals and refined machining.

This test was an excellent example of how well different countries manufacture their metals which includes the quality of ore, the metalurgical makeup, the tempering process, etc. Japan, perhaps with the help of US technology after WWII, makes fine metal, and their processes are more refined than Southeast Asian countries.

There are plenty more examples of this, but I doubt they will change the minds of the die-hard bargain shoppers among us that think saving a few bucks is the most important aspect of our hobby. If it is to them, cool. I'll spend the extra money just to avoid the headaches of returning/exchanging engines to get one that runs well, and also for the superior materials/craftsmanship.

For sure. It wasn't long ago that they led the world in showing how not to make an ABN engine

I remember when I was a kid back in the early 50's, that Japanese stuff was pure junk. At that time, they were considered to be a 3rd world country. Now they are one of the finest countries.

They didn't test any of those Japanese rifles made back when the springfield M1 was made? They wern't anygood either? Ask anyone about a WWII japanse Saito rifle?


Jim

W8ye, I also remember when Japanese stuff was considered substandard, and I think this was generally the impression well into the 70s. Yet I remember OS engines from the 70s, and they were well made. Well, I guess if you've been making engines since 1935, you gotta get it right sooner or later.

The test on the rifles was about 6 or 7 years ago, and the Springfield M1A is still in production. The Ariska rifle of WWII was a rough, far fetched Mauser copy, and indeed the workmanship left much to be desired, much like the Mausers of the late war years. Pump them out as fast as you can was the order of the day for both Japan and Germany, and quality fell by the wayside as their resources diminished.

This is hardly relevant to the topic though except as a digressive example, unless you consider that Communism could well be a factor in limiting a country's R&D in the private sector as most such resources are funneled into the government machine, which brings to mind how much better Chinese military arms are than those produced by private companies like Norinco et al.

I bet if there was a need for military model engines in China, there would be far fewer returns to Hobby Shack.

Back in the early 60's, there were these cheap Japanese engines that began to be in the Hobby shops. They were OS but they had black steel fins that were made onto the sleeve like the Green head K&B's. They ran real good once you got over your physc about the cheap foreign stuff. They were cheap ($14.95) too. Then about '68 they came out with the OS MAX series that looked a lot like the engines today. The OS MAX 30 & 35 R/C were used by everyone who couldn't afford a K&B 45. In control line the 35 was as good as a fox 35. Along about then, the Italians got in the picture. Those Supertigre's were made very nice but too expensive. They were also too highly tuned for sport use we thought. I still have some of those engines ST G21/40 and G21/46's) and they are mild compared with today's world.

Jim

That's funny I couldn't gey my Tower .46 to turn off! Not a bad problem if you are worried about dead sticks but just a little annoying. Go figure

I gotta throw my hat into the ring on this one....
...back in the early 70's....the O.S. .60 FSR was the
best, most powerful, longest lasting, and expensive
engine you could get. They came in a standard version,
or you could get 'em pumped and piped. Even to this
day....about the only thing that will out run 'em is
a Rossi....and I don't know if the Rossi would out last
one.

I ran an FSR for 15 years.....over 600 flights before I
had to rebuild it. Even then....the rod and the piston
were perfect. I replaced the liner, ring. brgs, and the
gaskets. Good as new.

If you look back at the "Full line" posters....of all the
wonderful engines O.S. made....it's hard to believe.
Take any decade...70's, 80's, 90's....and you'd almost
have to combine all the others to equal the O.S. line.

Their success was due to quality materials, quality
control, and their carburation. The .60 FSR had the 7B
carb....double needle....virtually every modern double
needle carb....to this day, is a copy of the O.S. 7B carb.

True, the liner peeling problem of the .46's was a bummer
and the Super Dog .91FX left a little to be desired....
but I guess you can't win 'em all. Their need to cut
cost's, and the coming of the Tiawan and Chinese
motors made for a few problems....

FWIW....the Jap rifles of WWII weren't that bad. True,
they were'nt the best. They did have problems with
their ammo....due to the rain and humidity of the
Pacific....and their corrosive primers and powder led
to the rapid deterioration of the rlfle bores and accuracy.

There has always been some confusion about the U.S.
military rifle designations....

The M1.....30 cal was designated for both the Garand,
and the carbine...(oh well)....they were adopted in 1936
and production ceased in the middle '50's.

The M14 took over in the middle '50's, and was used up
until the mid '60's....when the M16 (AR15) was introduced
in 'Nam.

The M1A....is actually a M14....

And the M1A1....is actually a M1 carbine.....with a folding
stock.

Ask any old timer from the military....they do that, just to
keep you confused....

Dave.