K&B Stallion 35
08-27-2006, 06:40 PM
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K&B Stallion 35
I have a K&B Stallion 35 that is in excellant condition and need the thrust plate washer. This engine was manufactured in the 70s. I have been all over the K&B site but no luck. I would like to sell it but need the part so I can get a fair market value. Can anyone help? tks
08-27-2006, 08:04 PM
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RE: K&B Stallion 35
The K&B Stallion was a cheaply made engine in its time. It was a poor man's version of the more expensive K&B .40. The .35 did run well, but it did not produce nearly as much power as the .40, nor did it share in the .40's longevity.
As a consequence of the preceding, the engine did not develop much of a following.
I know of no source of new parts for this engine. You might get lucky if you started calling hobbyshops to check for NOS (New Old Stock) parts. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
I doubt if a pristine NIB sample with all original paperwork, packing and accessories would fetch $35 on a good day. It was what it was.
As a consequence of the preceding, the engine did not develop much of a following.
I know of no source of new parts for this engine. You might get lucky if you started calling hobbyshops to check for NOS (New Old Stock) parts. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
I doubt if a pristine NIB sample with all original paperwork, packing and accessories would fetch $35 on a good day. It was what it was.
08-27-2006, 08:35 PM
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RE: K&B Stallion 35
Thank you for that. I will keep looking. Who knows. I may get lucky. just a side not this engine was on a Sig Cadet Senior that was built by some one that did not know what they were doing. It was a very heavy aircraft. The fellow that I got it from told me he flew it one time and crashed the plane (wing) but repaired it and never flew again.When I started it up I had doubts that it would fly this plane with somewhat of authority. I was pleasantly suprised that it was slow but responsive. It ia a screemer with very strong compression. Probably just like a lot of the K&Bs, it will loose compression quickly????. Thanks for the input.
08-28-2006, 12:26 AM
#4
RE: K&B Stallion 35
I have a NIB K&B Stallion 35, and I certainly wouldn't take $35.00 for it.
I ran Stalliom 35's on my c/l planes in the late 60's, that's all I ever used.
They cost $9.95 brand new. They were easy to start, electric starters
weren't invented then, and they ran really good.
Here's a good look at the part you need. Bill Robison might have one
lying around.
FBD.
I ran Stalliom 35's on my c/l planes in the late 60's, that's all I ever used.
They cost $9.95 brand new. They were easy to start, electric starters
weren't invented then, and they ran really good.
Here's a good look at the part you need. Bill Robison might have one
lying around.
FBD.
08-28-2006, 03:51 AM
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RE: K&B Stallion 35
Ron:
I have several of the cast drive washers, but as they are for the Veco 61 and the early K&B ringed 61 I don’t know if they will work on the Stallion 35 engine.
Measure the diameter of the shaft where the flat is, the 61 is 0.375†there. Also measure the length of the flat – the 61 is 0.2†long, the drive washer is 0.22†thick making the drive face 0.020†in front of the larger diameter part of the crank.
If you need a thicker drive washer, and if the shaft diameter at the flat is 0.375†you can also use the later drive set for the 40 and 61 engines. It’s a direct replacement for the cast washer, which is no longer supplied. Thickness of this set is 0.35†combined.
19-6101 6557 Drive Collet ABC Ringed
20-6101 6558 Prop Driver ABC Ringed
Last option is to call Randy Linsalato, at MECoA, and ask about the drive washer for the Sportster 45 engine. I don’t have one to check, but they look a lot like what you need, Randy is still selling the Sportster engines.
Bill.
I have several of the cast drive washers, but as they are for the Veco 61 and the early K&B ringed 61 I don’t know if they will work on the Stallion 35 engine.
Measure the diameter of the shaft where the flat is, the 61 is 0.375†there. Also measure the length of the flat – the 61 is 0.2†long, the drive washer is 0.22†thick making the drive face 0.020†in front of the larger diameter part of the crank.
If you need a thicker drive washer, and if the shaft diameter at the flat is 0.375†you can also use the later drive set for the 40 and 61 engines. It’s a direct replacement for the cast washer, which is no longer supplied. Thickness of this set is 0.35†combined.
19-6101 6557 Drive Collet ABC Ringed
20-6101 6558 Prop Driver ABC Ringed
Last option is to call Randy Linsalato, at MECoA, and ask about the drive washer for the Sportster 45 engine. I don’t have one to check, but they look a lot like what you need, Randy is still selling the Sportster engines.
Bill.
08-28-2006, 10:07 AM
#8
RE: K&B Stallion 35
Bill....
....the Stallion is smaller than the 60 as you would expect. The diameter where
the prop stud screws in is .385".
The flat measures .300
The diameter of the Stallion prop washer is .880
The diameter of the 60 prop washer is 1.050
I was hoping one of the early 40's might fit. My Torpedo 40's were traded off
many years ago.
Dave.
....the Stallion is smaller than the 60 as you would expect. The diameter where
the prop stud screws in is .385".
The flat measures .300
The diameter of the Stallion prop washer is .880
The diameter of the 60 prop washer is 1.050
I was hoping one of the early 40's might fit. My Torpedo 40's were traded off
many years ago.
Dave.
08-28-2006, 10:43 AM
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RE: K&B Stallion 35
I too flew the K&B .35 Stallion on control line models in the late Sixties. I used to order them three or four at a time from America's Hobby Center in NY, NY. They cost $11.95 each from that source in late 69.
If one runs all castor oil lube at a hefty concentration and does not run the engine too lean, it will last a while, but not as long as the K&B .40 with a bushed on both ends connecting rod. Unfortunately, many of the K&B .40 engines were sold with non bushed connecting rods too. That was their weak spot.
Every once in a while I see a few Stallion .35 engines for sale on eBay. There was just a few of them circulating on there, in fact. My favorite .35 R/C engine of the era was the OS Max .35S R/C. Not quite as powerful as the K&B, but it would outlast it by a considerable margin. Also the Enya and ST .35s were great engines too. The K&B .35 Stallion was a throw away engine in those days, like a McCoy .35 Stunt.
If one runs all castor oil lube at a hefty concentration and does not run the engine too lean, it will last a while, but not as long as the K&B .40 with a bushed on both ends connecting rod. Unfortunately, many of the K&B .40 engines were sold with non bushed connecting rods too. That was their weak spot.
Every once in a while I see a few Stallion .35 engines for sale on eBay. There was just a few of them circulating on there, in fact. My favorite .35 R/C engine of the era was the OS Max .35S R/C. Not quite as powerful as the K&B, but it would outlast it by a considerable margin. Also the Enya and ST .35s were great engines too. The K&B .35 Stallion was a throw away engine in those days, like a McCoy .35 Stunt.
08-28-2006, 11:06 AM
#13
RE: K&B Stallion 35
Ja ja, right there. I see your dial calipers and raise you one micrometer. My earlier measurement was with vernier calipers and I guess I misread them. The shaft diameter is .393.
08-28-2006, 12:08 PM
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RE: K&B Stallion 35
Bill: Thanks again for all your help. Hope I can return the favor. I am down sizing (divorce after 34 years) and am still going to fly but on a smaller scale. I have 15 planes that are RTF and need to get rid of most.Please don't go to a lot of trouble looking for this. I have decided to have my friend Machine it for me.
He is retired and we do a lot of trade offs.
Ron
He is retired and we do a lot of trade offs.
Ron
08-28-2006, 08:26 PM
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RE: K&B Stallion 35
A few notes on K&B prop drives.
The “Green Head†Torpedo engines used a steel drive washer, sitting on a tapered section of the crank, there was no key arrangement.
The Wisniewski designed “Series 61†engines, which included the first ringed 40 engines in the 80xx models, had a machined drive washer, pressed on the front of the shaft, with a set screw. Later versions had a roll pin in addition to the set screw.
When the ringed 40 got its only major redesign which included the larger crank case bypass, it also got a larger front bearing, and the prop drive was changed to the tapered split collet with the fully machined drive washer.
The Clarence Lee designed Veco ringed 61 had a cast drive washer, similar to the Stallion series. The original Veco engine also had a one piece crank, with the threaded part for prop attachment part of the shaft. When K&B took over the production the cast drive was retained, but the prop nut threaded section was made removable.
With the development of the 4011 series ringed 40 engine, the machined drive with the split collet was fitted to the ringed 60 engines as well, all since have been supplied with this type, the cast version went out of production. But the late type will fit and work on the earlier cranks with the drive flat, actually making the engine better as the cast washer could bend with a prop strike.
Anyway, Ron, with Frank Bowman sending you what you need looks like your problem has been solved.
Bill.
The “Green Head†Torpedo engines used a steel drive washer, sitting on a tapered section of the crank, there was no key arrangement.
The Wisniewski designed “Series 61†engines, which included the first ringed 40 engines in the 80xx models, had a machined drive washer, pressed on the front of the shaft, with a set screw. Later versions had a roll pin in addition to the set screw.
When the ringed 40 got its only major redesign which included the larger crank case bypass, it also got a larger front bearing, and the prop drive was changed to the tapered split collet with the fully machined drive washer.
The Clarence Lee designed Veco ringed 61 had a cast drive washer, similar to the Stallion series. The original Veco engine also had a one piece crank, with the threaded part for prop attachment part of the shaft. When K&B took over the production the cast drive was retained, but the prop nut threaded section was made removable.
With the development of the 4011 series ringed 40 engine, the machined drive with the split collet was fitted to the ringed 60 engines as well, all since have been supplied with this type, the cast version went out of production. But the late type will fit and work on the earlier cranks with the drive flat, actually making the engine better as the cast washer could bend with a prop strike.
Anyway, Ron, with Frank Bowman sending you what you need looks like your problem has been solved.
Bill.
08-28-2006, 09:34 PM
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RE: K&B Stallion 35
I got a min or two tonight... Here's a few pics... The first are of an early 2 ring Veco .61. The others are a Stallion .35 I had as a kid and flew the stew out of in a Swizzle Stick.
Bill Vail
Bill Vail
08-28-2006, 11:11 PM
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RE: K&B Stallion 35
Bill: Thanks for the valuble info. I have heard this a few times that the Stallions were manufactured in Phx, AZ by a firm called Thunderbird engine's. Can U lend some light to this story?
Ron
Ron
08-28-2006, 11:32 PM
#21
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RE: K&B Stallion 35
The Stallion 35 was a less expensive alternative to the Torp 35 green head, not a 40. It wasn't a bad engine and they were made for years. First out in 1963 and made through the 70's. The R/C version came with a Veco carb and came out in 73. It wasn't a bad engine at all and K&B sold zillions of them. The first K&B 40 didn't come out until 1965, two years after the Stallion 35 and 049.
However, finding parts for one is going to be difficult just like it would be for any other engine 30 years old.
They were made right along with all the other K&B products in the same factory.
The Stallion was a good engine as were all the K&B engines of that time frome. Their compression lasted for years. These aren't the poor McCoy redheads. K&B was the standard of the day in the 60's and 70's.
However, finding parts for one is going to be difficult just like it would be for any other engine 30 years old.
They were made right along with all the other K&B products in the same factory.
The Stallion was a good engine as were all the K&B engines of that time frome. Their compression lasted for years. These aren't the poor McCoy redheads. K&B was the standard of the day in the 60's and 70's.
08-28-2006, 11:42 PM
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RE: K&B Stallion 35
Ron:
I knew Johnny Brodbeck off and on for more than 40 years, I never heard of his farming any production out other than some few components. As far as I know all K&B branded engines had their final assembly in the K&B plant. That doesn’t mean the Stallions could not have been made by contract, it’s just foreign to my impression of the way John ran his business.
K&B did build engines under other brand names though. An example is the Cox Conquest engine. K&B made them, Cox did the marketing. Later Roy Cox dropped out, and the Conquest was sold as a K&B.
Others – Bill Atwood (Atwood Engines) built the Holland Hornet, and if I’m not mistaken Hi Johnson never made any of the engines he sold, but I don’t remember who made them. Maybe that was Veco, just not sure.
Bill.
I knew Johnny Brodbeck off and on for more than 40 years, I never heard of his farming any production out other than some few components. As far as I know all K&B branded engines had their final assembly in the K&B plant. That doesn’t mean the Stallions could not have been made by contract, it’s just foreign to my impression of the way John ran his business.
K&B did build engines under other brand names though. An example is the Cox Conquest engine. K&B made them, Cox did the marketing. Later Roy Cox dropped out, and the Conquest was sold as a K&B.
Others – Bill Atwood (Atwood Engines) built the Holland Hornet, and if I’m not mistaken Hi Johnson never made any of the engines he sold, but I don’t remember who made them. Maybe that was Veco, just not sure.
Bill.
08-29-2006, 12:16 AM
#23
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RE: K&B Stallion 35
Hi Johnson designed his engines and they were manufactured by Dynamic Models inc. They also made the Holland Hornets.
According to the Cox web page AND Anderson's Blue Book, L.M. Cox made the Conquests, not K&B. K&B bought the rights later just like they bought the rights for Veco. K&B bought the rights, modified the engines and began selling them in 1982.
According to the Cox web page AND Anderson's Blue Book, L.M. Cox made the Conquests, not K&B. K&B bought the rights later just like they bought the rights for Veco. K&B bought the rights, modified the engines and began selling them in 1982.
08-29-2006, 12:01 PM
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RE: K&B Stallion 35
ORIGINAL: loughbd
The Stallion 35 was a less expensive alternative to the Torp 35 green head, not a 40. It wasn't a bad engine and they were made for years. First out in 1963 and made through the 70's. The R/C version came with a Veco carb and came out in 73. It wasn't a bad engine at all and K&B sold zillions of them. The first K&B 40 didn't come out until 1965, two years after the Stallion 35 and 049.
However, finding parts for one is going to be difficult just like it would be for any other engine 30 years old.
They were made right along with all the other K&B products in the same factory.
The Stallion was a good engine as were all the K&B engines of that time frome. Their compression lasted for years. These aren't the poor McCoy redheads. K&B was the standard of the day in the 60's and 70's.
The Stallion 35 was a less expensive alternative to the Torp 35 green head, not a 40. It wasn't a bad engine and they were made for years. First out in 1963 and made through the 70's. The R/C version came with a Veco carb and came out in 73. It wasn't a bad engine at all and K&B sold zillions of them. The first K&B 40 didn't come out until 1965, two years after the Stallion 35 and 049.
However, finding parts for one is going to be difficult just like it would be for any other engine 30 years old.
They were made right along with all the other K&B products in the same factory.
The Stallion was a good engine as were all the K&B engines of that time frome. Their compression lasted for years. These aren't the poor McCoy redheads. K&B was the standard of the day in the 60's and 70's.
---------------
My only experience with the Stallions was in control line. They didn't impress me as being any better, or any worse, than the McCoy .35, which I happened to like after I learned how not to burn them up during break-in.
A friend of mine bought a Stallion .35 R/C engine in the late Seventies to replace his busted up K&B .40 (bad crash). It ran fine, but was way down on power, as one would expect, from the K&B .40. In his case, the .35 was filling in for a .40 that he could not afford. His .35 did go through connecting rods, but then again, so did my K&B .40s until K&B came out with the bushed on both ends connecting rods for the .40s.
Thanks for the history lesson. I had no idea that the Stallion was that old and that it predated the .40. You guys always amaze me with the depth of your knowledge.
