New engine---Old question
09-18-2006 | 04:59 PM
#1
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From: Charleston, SC
New engine---Old question
Have a new Evolution 46 and I am pulling my hair out. It started on the first flip and needed no adjustment. Took off and flew for about 3 minutes and the engine died. Dead stick to a soft landing. Engine now won't run. No matter where the throttle is the engine will die when glow started is removed. Had another pilot, who know more about engines than I do, check it out and made adjustments. Still no luck. We worked on it for about 1 hour at the field and when we could get it started it would still die when glow starter was removed. Brought it home, removed and checked the tank and lines. No leaks anywhere on tank. Even checked the carb and made sure all screws were tight. Removed the high speed needle and blew out the carb and needle. Fueled up and same thing. I'm ready to put old OS back in.
Should I call Horizon for help or is there someone here who can assist me. Being a senior citizen I am at my wits end, I only have 1/2 a wit as it is. [sm=bananahead.gif]
Thanks for any assist.
Jim
Should I call Horizon for help or is there someone here who can assist me. Being a senior citizen I am at my wits end, I only have 1/2 a wit as it is. [sm=bananahead.gif]
Thanks for any assist.
Jim
09-18-2006 | 05:10 PM
#2
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: New engine---Old question
ORIGINAL: old n slow
Have a new Evolution 46 and I am pulling my hair out. It started on the first flip and needed no adjustment. Took off and flew for about 3 minutes and the engine died. Dead stick to a soft landing. Engine now won't run. No matter where the throttle is the engine will die when glow started is removed. Had another pilot, who know more about engines than I do, check it out and made adjustments. Still no luck. We worked on it for about 1 hour at the field and when we could get it started it would still die when glow starter was removed. Brought it home, removed and checked the tank and lines. No leaks anywhere on tank. Even checked the carb and made sure all screws were tight. Removed the high speed needle and blew out the carb and needle. Fueled up and same thing. I'm ready to put old OS back in.
Should I call Horizon for help or is there someone here who can assist me. Being a senior citizen I am at my wits end, I only have 1/2 a wit as it is. [sm=bananahead.gif]
Thanks for any assist.
Jim
Have a new Evolution 46 and I am pulling my hair out. It started on the first flip and needed no adjustment. Took off and flew for about 3 minutes and the engine died. Dead stick to a soft landing. Engine now won't run. No matter where the throttle is the engine will die when glow started is removed. Had another pilot, who know more about engines than I do, check it out and made adjustments. Still no luck. We worked on it for about 1 hour at the field and when we could get it started it would still die when glow starter was removed. Brought it home, removed and checked the tank and lines. No leaks anywhere on tank. Even checked the carb and made sure all screws were tight. Removed the high speed needle and blew out the carb and needle. Fueled up and same thing. I'm ready to put old OS back in.
Should I call Horizon for help or is there someone here who can assist me. Being a senior citizen I am at my wits end, I only have 1/2 a wit as it is. [sm=bananahead.gif]
Thanks for any assist.
Jim
---------------
Old and Slow, you and I have a lot in common.
It sounds as though the engine was too lean and damaged the glow plug. You really need to adjust a two-stroke (AND four-stroke) glow engine every time you fire it up for the first time in a day. Why? To prevent just what you are going through right now.
Unfortunately, our engines will run when they are a tad too lean. This reduces the engine's useful life time and can be a glow plug killer.
Never believe anyone when they say that you don't need to fuss with the needle valve, especially on a two-stroke. The needle valve control our engine's ignition timing by varying the amount of fuel. More fuel means the timing gets retarded, which is a safe way to run your engines.
Replace the glow plug, turn the high speed needle open a turn or two, follow the engine's break-in instructions with the model elevated several feet up off the ground and then tell us how you made out. Good luck to you.
09-18-2006 | 08:16 PM
#3
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From: Charleston, SC
RE: New engine---Old question
Well, looks like it is going back to Horizon. Had a friend look at it and attempt to start it and he believes that there was a small piece of metal inside engine that scored the piston and sleeve. I guess that is what all the black specks, not streaks, were on the wing and the fuse side. Still under warranty so i hope their service is as good as I hear.
09-18-2006 | 08:40 PM
#4
RE: New engine---Old question
Are these the engines that are supposedly run in before you buy them? Don't believe it, it'd take them longer to run them in than to make them. Always at least take off the backplate to check inside them before the first run and if you find anything inside, even metal dust, then thoroughly flush it all out. One tiny bit of aluminium dust getting on the plug is enough to kill the plug which sounds like what happened to yours. A plug can glow with the battery connected but not necessarily work without it.
09-19-2006 | 12:34 AM
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From: Scappoose, OR
RE: New engine---Old question
Amen to that! Ran my Evolution Alpha through the Dave Grieke break-in procedure on the
test stand, and it really runs well now. It pulls the old repaired trainer around very well.
Check out the engine when it is returned to make sure it is clean inside.
test stand, and it really runs well now. It pulls the old repaired trainer around very well.
Check out the engine when it is returned to make sure it is clean inside.
09-19-2006 | 05:32 AM
#6
Senior Member
RE: New engine---Old question
An engine that dies when the glow driver is removed has a bad plug. Black specks are AL in the exhaust and are NEVER a good sign. Someone ran the engine too lean, and it was possibly broken in that way.
I also agree that this engine is NOT fully broken in from the factory, unless the tolerances are so loose that everything's already a sloppy fit.
Send it back.
Dr.1
I also agree that this engine is NOT fully broken in from the factory, unless the tolerances are so loose that everything's already a sloppy fit.
Send it back.
Dr.1
09-19-2006 | 09:53 AM
#7
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: New engine---Old question
ORIGINAL: old n slow
Well, looks like it is going back to Horizon. Had a friend look at it and attempt to start it and he believes that there was a small piece of metal inside engine that scored the piston and sleeve. I guess that is what all the black specks, not streaks, were on the wing and the fuse side. Still under warranty so i hope their service is as good as I hear.
Well, looks like it is going back to Horizon. Had a friend look at it and attempt to start it and he believes that there was a small piece of metal inside engine that scored the piston and sleeve. I guess that is what all the black specks, not streaks, were on the wing and the fuse side. Still under warranty so i hope their service is as good as I hear.
----------------
Sorry it has to go back.
I'm not familiar with the Evolution series of engines and I'm not familiar with what they (Evolution) have gone through to make them "ready-to-fly", so, in the interest of fairness, I retract my statement in the previous post.
When you get older, as I'm sure you know, it is easy to become convinced that there is nothing new under the Sun. Unfortunately, 99.9999% of the time, you are right. But there is always that one little, eeeny-weeny-teeny time when you are wrong. And danged if that thing doesn't show up a lot. <G>
09-19-2006 | 12:25 PM
#8
Banned
RE: New engine---Old question
First off, you CAN'T open the needle on an Evolution engine. They have a limiter on them and can only be turned about 1/4 turn. Your proplem sounds like plug. The main reason an engine quits after the glow driver is removed is a bad plug, a too cold plug, or not enough nitro. It sounds like you have a bad plug.
Evolution engines are ABC types and don't need a long break in. Slightly rich for the first couple flights is all that's needed. They usually come that way.
Evolution engines are ABC types and don't need a long break in. Slightly rich for the first couple flights is all that's needed. They usually come that way.
09-19-2006 | 12:47 PM
#9
Senior Member
RE: New engine---Old question
OK, loughbd, how do you explain the black specks in the exhaust? That's AL rubbing somewhere. It could even be a loose muffler. OR, it could be too lean or not broken in yet. However, even if it's not broken in, it shouldn't spit AL.
Dr.1
Dr.1
09-19-2006 | 01:58 PM
#10
Banned
RE: New engine---Old question
Al, not AL. That is a definitely a possibility. However, it would be more than likely the STEEL crankshaft rubbing on the backplate or even the bottom of the con rod rubbing on the backplate. If the plug WAS contaminated by Al it usually wouldn't even start. If it was a loose muffler, it wouldn't normally get the plug as the exhaust tends to blow everything AWAY from the engine. I have seen many loose mufflers that blow black that have no effect on the plug. Most on the cheaper Chinese and Taiwanese engines.
09-19-2006 | 03:00 PM
#11
Senior Member
RE: New engine---Old question
Al, not AL. That is a definitely a possibility. However, it would be more than likely the STEEL crankshaft rubbing on the backplate or even the bottom of the con rod rubbing on the backplate.
Ah, like I said, it's aluminum in the exhaust, which is NEVER good. The con rod should NEVER rub the crankcasse, and the crankshaft pin should never rub the backplate. And I never said the aluminum contaminated or damaged the plug. As I stated earlier, the plug was probably damaged by a lean run.
Dr.1
Ah, like I said, it's aluminum in the exhaust, which is NEVER good. The con rod should NEVER rub the crankcasse, and the crankshaft pin should never rub the backplate. And I never said the aluminum contaminated or damaged the plug. As I stated earlier, the plug was probably damaged by a lean run.
Dr.1
09-19-2006 | 03:55 PM
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From: Charleston, SC
RE: New engine---Old question
Well it's on its way back to Horizon. Believe me the muffler wasn't loose. I thought I would never get the screws out to it off. The engine was set up slightly rich and it quit after about 3 min into first flight, as i stated, and we couldn't get it started again. And as stated we used several new plugs. Both OS and A3 plugs. Even tried one with idle bar. Nada, zip, nothing. Did notice that when taking the plugs out to check and/or change that the bottoms were black. The plugs were put in a OS46AX and all of them worked good and am still using one in another engine. So plugw were not the problem. Maybe Horizon can shed some light.
I'll post the outcome here on the forum.
Thanks for input. It's great how many responses one gets to a question or statement.
Gotta love it.
Well time for my mid afternoon nap. Have to be careful and not let it run over into my late afternoon nap.
Yaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
Jim
I'll post the outcome here on the forum.
Thanks for input. It's great how many responses one gets to a question or statement.
Gotta love it.
Well time for my mid afternoon nap. Have to be careful and not let it run over into my late afternoon nap.
Yaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
Jim
09-19-2006 | 06:11 PM
#13
RE: New engine---Old question
In this case it sounds like an internal problem (I guess?)
There is a flat disc baffle in the muffler that seems to invariably loosen with (not much ) time...that could also explain the black exhaust.
There is a flat disc baffle in the muffler that seems to invariably loosen with (not much ) time...that could also explain the black exhaust.
