Wingman1

Being relatively new to R/C flying I am always willing to read and learn but it can be very puzzling when the advice of experienced R/C-ers tends to fly in the face of information from manufacturers. Two for instances: George E writes in this forum that the Thunder Tiger Pro 46 (which I have just bought) comes with a "lousy" muffler that kills performance and it should be drilled out or have the baffle removed. If performance is so bad why does TT put a baffle in there to start with or is it there just to quieten the engine and what does he mean by "drilled out"?
Secondly, Gene Chernosky writes that these engines should be broken in hot and not using the rich routine which TT advocate. He also describes his break-in routine which involves using three props, a 10x6, 9x6 and an 11x5, the first two only being used very briefly. Why three? TT advise just a 10x6 for break-in and a 10x7 to fly. TT also advise using fuel with 25% lubricant, either castor or a castor/synthetic mix; this does seem high to me and I would imagine that 25%castor would not do the engine a lot of good long term due to varnish build-up etc. What fuel mix does Gene use, for both break-in and flying? A normal sort of mix that we tend to use for general flying is 10% nitro, 15-18% oil (of which around 3% is castor) and the rest methanol. Any answers to the above will be gratefully digested!!

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

Whever you ask a question here and you get ,lets say 10 replies. go with the majority. They say there is no such thing as a stupid question? Well yes there is. This questions is asked on a regular basis.

Whats the best prop for a G90 or whats the best prop for a OS 160. Why is this such a stupid question? Because the person did not say what kind of plane it's on. How can you answer a question like this? It shows ignorance. Might as well own a temp gauge.

You ask a blind question like that and someguy says "oh and 11/7apc". This could be true but the engine is on a small Shrike or DD. 11/7 isn't going to work. You need to learn to "see through" this crap.

Everyone does things differently and the method is right in their minds. The book is full of technical bs. It's a tool or a guide and should be used as such and tuning up an engine is different depending on where you live. I'm at 5000ft and the numbers and performance are way off compare to those at sea level.

Drilling or removing a baffle is okay I guess but not a must do. My break-in method is run a couple tanks through the plane to tune it up and then fly the darn thing, but that me and others don't agree with this.


As far as different prop sizes, it depends on type of plane and flying you will do. You won't mount an 11/7 on a speed plane and you won't mount a 9/7 on a .40 size trainer. Those who fly 3d tend to use a larger diameter with much less prop-lets say 11/4 or whatever. Speed planes like less diameter and more pitch.

Wingman1

Thanks Cyclic! I suppose you're right - the old saying comes to mind - a little learning is a dangerous thing! I can appreciate you're settings etc will be totally different from, say, mine as you live at 5000ft and I live at around 250ft, if that! Unless I hear to the contrary I'll strike a balance between the manufacturers recommendations and the "experts" and see what happens, the worst I can do is blow the engine up!!

buzzingb

My Feedback: (2)

When I doubt go with the manual as there are some odd people giving advice on here including myself.

1. Fuel
These are from my Thunder Tiger Manual for the Pro Series of engines but it has two different recomendations. First under Break-In Section --20% then later in the manual under Necessary Accessories under Fuel---is recommends 25% lubricant for break-in. Then for more power 20% lubricant and 5-15% nitromethane.

2. Breakin
This engine is a bolt on run a tank through a little rich and then go fly engine. Don't worry about break-in that much. Just keep it a little rich with a slight vapor trail in the air for a while and have fun.

3. Muffler
Keep it stock untill you gain more experience. An engineer designed it to keep the noise quite and provide backpressure for fuel tank and divert gasses out of motor. If you change the muffler you could change tank pressure and noise etc. So run it like it is for now and have fun. This engine will scream with the stock muffler or with a tuned pipe.

4. Prop
Manual recomends 10X6, 10X7
You can use any prop as long as it runs well but why experinent just run one of these or its equivilent like 11X6 would be about the same load as the 10X7 or a 12X4 will be about the same as the 10X6.

Bottom line use your common sense and the owners manual to make rational decisions. Just remember this an engineer wrote the material in the owners manual (we hope). People are people and everyone has an opinion but opinions are just that opinions not facts based on test.

XTOL

I have 3 TT46 Pros and they are one of the most user friendly
motors on the market.

The stock muffler is fine. Dont worry about it. If you have a need
for more punch get one of the Tower 46 mufflers. The TT46 runs
great on that muffler gaining 400-800 RPM over the stock muffler.
Fuel consumption increases quite a bit as does the noise level.

As far as break in is concerned you dont really need to do anything
fancy. They break in quickly. Run a couple of tanks at a slightly
rich 2 cycle and you are good to go. Just dont do slobbering rich
or screaming lean.

Any fuel is going to be fine. I use CP 15% all synthetic. My oldest
TT46 has better than 25 gallons through it. Still runs great.

As far as props go I have had the best luck with APC 11 X 5 for general
flying and APC 10 X 7 for speed. I have one with the Tower muffler and
it does good on an APC 11 X 6.

This is about as trouble free a motor as you will ever get. Relax...
dont worry...just fly it.

Mike Hammer

Wingman1

Hi Buzz - I wouldn't say you're odd but, there again, I haven't met you! I must admit though, pretty sound advice. I did notice the two different recommendations for lubricant percentages but didn't want to appear totally stupid by asking why, I just came to the conclusion that either the guy who wrote the book had extremely short term memory loss or there was something lost in the translation! The engine, by the way, is fitted into a Kyosho Calmato high wing trainer so when it's run in and I've flown it I'll post another thread advising how many pieces I managed to smash it into!!!!!

Wingman1

Hi XTOL, I have both the APC 11x5 and 10x7 so I'll try the 11x5 first until I feel more confident about increased speed. I usually go to the USA each year for a holiday (my Son lives in Atlanta) and come back here to the UK with my suitcase loaded with goodies - usually from Tower Hobbies, much cheaper than over here! When I come over in the Summer I'll try one of the Tower 46 mufflers and see what a difference that makes. I might also try the engine in my Super Air once I've got over the ever so slight problem of taking off, flying and then landing again in one piece! I never realised how many bits you can break a plane into until I tried my very first landing!!!!!!!!!!

wcmorrison

My Feedback: (2)

Follow the instructions given by the manufacter for break in. Extra lube in the begining will yeild a long life time for the engine.

Otherwise, if you do not have the instructions there are many threads on break in for engines, ringed or ABC/N which are different. Ringed is one way and ABC/N is another way. The TT 46Pro is a ABC/N engine.

I fly my TT 46 Pro on Omega which is a blend of synthetic and Castor oil. I use 10 or 15% nitro. I also use a 11 X 6 prop and the engine pulls with authority.

Cheers,

Chip

Wingman1

If you want to use an increased amount of lube at the break-in stage, rather than buy a whole container of high oil content fuel can you add a little extra castor oil to the mix? I have read that the castor oil that you buy from a Pharmacy, or wherever, (the type for medicinal purposes) isn't soluble in methanol, or other petroleum mixtures, as it hasn't been polymerised and hence is not ideal to use but there seems to be scant information around about this. Anybody got any experience of trying this out?

buzzingb

My Feedback: (2)

I have never tried Pharmacy grade castor but you can buy it from SIG in quart bottles. Your local hobby shop should be able to get it for you. I use about 2oz. per gallon in all my new engines and Saitos.

XTOL

Yes you can add extra lube to your fuel. Its not normally necessary with
most of todays fuels but if it makes you feel better then go for it.

Pharmacy grade castor may have too much water in it. You can buy
oil from Sig or Klotz or even from Morgan Fuels (maker of Cool Power and Omega)

Extra oil really is not necessary for an engine like the TT46.

Mike Hammer

Sport_Pilot

Pharmacy grade castor has no water added. It is Bakers AA which has been tested for ricin poisen. Works fine just way too expensive. You can buy castor oil at most motorcycle shops for less, if you don't want to wait for mail order.

Wingman1

Thanks for the reply guys but here we have another dilema. One says Pharmacy grade caster may have to much water, the other thinks not! One thing about living in the UK, I don't have access to the companies that you do in the US with regard to the supply of caster, or other chemicals, so it is very much a case of try what you can and see! I'll get some Pharmacy grade caster, mix it with a small amount of fuel and then beat the nuts out of it with a small blender and leave it for 24 hours to see if it stays in suspension. If it does I'll try it in the engine, if not I guess we go back to the drawing board!

Wingman1

PS: I really do appreciate the interest that my initial thread has generated. You can understand that, as a beginner, I am keen to learn as much as I can and I do take on board everything that is said, even though some of it remains a bitof a minefield that I have to tread a careful path through. Keep the suggestions coming, the more I learn, the better! Thanks guys.

Sport_Pilot

Castor does not mix with water. Another problem is that you live in the UK and I don't really know what the standards are there. Some have said they add sugar to castor in some countries, though I doubt it. I just know I have used it here in the US with no problems. Castor is not something that rare in most countries. It is not banned like nitro, so you should be able to get it shipped. Overseas shipping rates are reasonable, unlike the in state rates in the US.

MikeL

My Feedback: (3)

It's REALLY not necessary to add castor oil to your fuel--seriously. Some people here will talk about that, but I don't know anyone that does that. You've got a nice engine there and it will run just fine on most any fuel you feed it. Buy a name-brand fuel with a castor/synthetic blend and you'll be 100% fine. There's no need to worry about purchasing castor oil, and if you're really thinking about sticking some in the blender with a bit of fuel you've gone too far.

There are far more important things to consider when getting into the hobby than adding additional oil to the glow fuel you purchase. You'll see no benefit from that, and your time would be better spent reading up on actually operating the engine. If you've never run a glow engine before, have your instructor help you to break it in. Running the engine improperly should be your worry--not adding superfluous lubricants to perfectly adequate fuel.

Keep in mind that sometimes folks here get off on a tangent--such as adding castor oil to your fuel. You ask how to go about that, and they'll tell you. That doesn't, however, mean that it's a worthwhile thing to do.

Sport_Pilot

I think it is a worth while thing to do, I add extra castor oil to break in many new engiens. However the TT .46 is not one of them. Mostly just the ringed engines that I know are going to build some friction heat and take a long time to break in. The extra castor helps to prevent them from overheating. But if its hard to find then even that is probably more trouble than its worth.

Wingman1

Hi Mikel, thanks for your reply. I appreciate everything that you have said and I do understand the points that you have raised but even the instructors in my club differ in what they think is the best way to break in, and run, an engine. The main purpose of posting my initial thread was to get some feed back from enthusiats that have had, and run, TT engines and, I must admit, I have had that - in spades!! What it really boils down to is this: read the advice, read the book and then decide the best course to follow. As has been said before, everybody has their own views on how to break-in and run engines but in the final analysis it is down to the individual and I have found some very valuable advice on this website. I will take all his on board and then decide the best course of action. Overwhelming advice seems to be - go with the book, don't run the engine too lean to begin with enjoy flying! We can all get too bogged down with so called technicalities, much of which only serves to make us techno-freaks and detracts from what we initially took up the sport to do and that is - to fly! Many thanks guys for all your advice, it really is appreciated and it has not fallen on deaf ears. I will try all the variations that I have been given, in the fullness of time, but to begin with I'll go for the common sense route, talk to my instructors, take on board what has been said here - then do my own thing!!!!!!

Sport_Pilot

Break this engine per the instructions. Later you can break in another engine per one instructors recommendation, and another per the other instructors recommendation. This is how you build some experiance.

XTOL

Anyone that has had a TT46 can tell you that its an extremely easy
engine to break in. Its designed that way. Minimal break in required.
You COULD even get by with no break in. But a little would be beneficial.

Now some other engines are VERY tight to begin with. Like a Tower 46
or GMS 47. These require more care and time to break in properly.

Really all you need to do is run a tankful or two through it...not too lean...not too rich...
and then put it in the air. Its that easy. Thats why I have 3 of them.

Mike Hammer

downunder

One thing about living in the UK is that you're in the home of Castrol who makes Castrol M castor which just happens to be the finest castor available for our engines. It's the only oil I've used for the last 50 years (OK, 49 years but who's counting? ). But in the UK you've also got the choice of ML70 or Castrol MSSR (a very good synthetic). Don't use medicinal castor, the Merco manual specifically warns against using it.

For running in an engine I prefer 25% oil (the one area where I fully agree with Dar ). As for how long to run them in, go by the manual or consider that even the very best engines like Rossi and Jett recommend running them in for 30-40 minutes.

XJet

Forget about adding extra castor -- it'll do nothing but cost you money.

Just get some good castor/synth fuel (18%-20% oil and 5%-10% nitro is fine) and run the engine a few clicks lean of 4-stroking for the first couple of tanks -- then you can lean it out a bit more and richen it back just a few clicks rich of peak.

It makes little sense to try and decrease the wear on your engine during break-in by adding extra oil -- since the break-in process is effectively involves wearing in the new parts to a better fit anyway.

That's all I do with mine and after I break them in with some regular oil like CoolPower castor/synth (ie: Omega fuel), I switch to Coopers PlusC oil which I run at 12% -- and my TTs *love* it, putting out far more power and running cooler than when regular old CoolPower oil is used.

It's the quality of your oil and how well you tune your engine that matters as much as (if not more than) the percentage of oil you run.

Wingman1

Many thanks for the extra bits of advice, very much appreciated. I was surfing the net last night, just out of curiosity, to see if I could find out any more info on castor and I found an article by Bert Striegler. A lot of you may already be familiar with this but if not go to www.go-cl.se/castor.html, it makes quite interesting reading.