MDS engines
01-22-2007, 12:08 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Springfield, IL
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MDS engines
I'm looking into using MDS engines. I know they are mde in Russia.
Can somebody tell me how they compare to other r/c engines today?
I work mostly with .15 sized engines.
Any commnts?
Beeza
Can somebody tell me how they compare to other r/c engines today?
I work mostly with .15 sized engines.
Any commnts?
Beeza
01-22-2007, 01:24 PM
#3
Senior Member
My Feedback: (264)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Great Mills,
MD
Posts: 2,223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: MDS engines
There still are lots of MDS engine on the "pre owned"
market and IMO they are worth looking at because they are inexpensive. If you try one and hate it, at least you are'nt out a lot of $$.
I have really like the .68 MDS overall. The carbs they came with were very inconsistent quality wise. Some were fine, others would barely allow the engine to run, and there is everthing in between. I think it was the poor carbs and the fact that they ran better on low nitro that did the MDS in here in the US. Horizon was getting MDS returns by the truck load from what I saw. By the time they introduced the improved C2 carb, it was too late to stop the axe from falling. I don't know much about the .15 size you are inetrested in. The .18 is the smallest one sold by horizon from what I understand. I Have seen some MDS .15's on *bay but I don't know if they were US market engines.
Mike
market and IMO they are worth looking at because they are inexpensive. If you try one and hate it, at least you are'nt out a lot of $$.I have really like the .68 MDS overall. The carbs they came with were very inconsistent quality wise. Some were fine, others would barely allow the engine to run, and there is everthing in between. I think it was the poor carbs and the fact that they ran better on low nitro that did the MDS in here in the US. Horizon was getting MDS returns by the truck load from what I saw. By the time they introduced the improved C2 carb, it was too late to stop the axe from falling. I don't know much about the .15 size you are inetrested in. The .18 is the smallest one sold by horizon from what I understand. I Have seen some MDS .15's on *bay but I don't know if they were US market engines.
Mike
01-22-2007, 03:41 PM
#4
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 4,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: MDS engines
With high quality .15-sized engines available from AP, Magnum, O.S., and Thunder Tiger, it makes one wonder why you would want to obtain MDS engines, Beeza. It looks like there are better choices available; ones where spare parts and warranty support wouldn't be as problematic.
01-22-2007, 03:58 PM
#5
RE: MDS engines
I wouldn't buy another MDS. As W8YE said, no parts available.
I had the .68 and it ran like a scalded cat. Shouldn't have sold it.
I had 2 of the 1.48 engines and both of them leaked air under the carb O-ring and killed my planes. [:@] This was before I discovered RCU and I had no idea they were notorious for leaking under the carb and leaning out.
I also had the 2.18. It never flamed out, but thats because I went to very extensive lengths to assure the carb was not leaking air and I replaced all the O-rings in the carb before I ever even fired it up. It's a HOG of an engine and will pull down a house under the right conditions. But, it left a smoking crator in my wallet. It was gulping down 28oz of fuel in about 12 minutes. I ran it on a Cline regulator.
I just saw an old MDS .46 on ebay the other day. It is NIB and the price is right, but I just couldn't bring myself to buy it. I'm going to run the engine on a pylon racer, and it will be experiencing regular impacts with the dirt. I'll need an engine I can get parts for, so I moved on.
I had the .68 and it ran like a scalded cat. Shouldn't have sold it.
I had 2 of the 1.48 engines and both of them leaked air under the carb O-ring and killed my planes. [:@] This was before I discovered RCU and I had no idea they were notorious for leaking under the carb and leaning out.
I also had the 2.18. It never flamed out, but thats because I went to very extensive lengths to assure the carb was not leaking air and I replaced all the O-rings in the carb before I ever even fired it up. It's a HOG of an engine and will pull down a house under the right conditions. But, it left a smoking crator in my wallet. It was gulping down 28oz of fuel in about 12 minutes. I ran it on a Cline regulator.
I just saw an old MDS .46 on ebay the other day. It is NIB and the price is right, but I just couldn't bring myself to buy it. I'm going to run the engine on a pylon racer, and it will be experiencing regular impacts with the dirt. I'll need an engine I can get parts for, so I moved on.
01-22-2007, 04:06 PM
#6
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Edinburgh, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: MDS engines
I have a 28, 38, 2x40s 48, 2x 58s, 61fr and a 68 all are brilliant engines, however parts availability from dealers are a problem as has been mentioned but I have not needed any so that has not been an issue.
They make very good engines but I feel the carbs must be made by another company as the quality is not the same high standard as the engine itself and if you are not capable of repairing or modifying the carb a quality replacement can be had from just engines who make carbs to fit all sorts of engines, if bearings are needed model fixings is a great site.
My view on these engines are they are absolutely first class but have bad press because of carb faults, they did bring out the C2 carb later which was much better. As far as spares go I got a lot of Ebay in the way of cheap engines but lately I think people have coughtened on to just how good these engines really are and the prices are going up.
As far as I know tower hobbies were dealing with MDS but I do not know if they still do, here in the UK Ripmax were dealing with them but no longer do.
The first thing I will say to anyone contemplating buying one of these engines is run it in very carefully before putting it in a plane they take a lot of running in and a good engine is easily be destroyed if not correctly run in. when new I have found these engines to be particularly tight and feel that many people have slighted them when it is the people themselves who have destroyed them when running them in.
Everyone has there own Idea on how to run an engine in and mine is slow and easy, I use no less than 10% nitro-methane and 20% castor oil 70% methanol I first start by putting the engine in a jig then connect the fuel line remove the glowplug and connect an exaust adapter that leads fuel back to a tank I connect an adapter with a pipe leading back to a tank in the place of the glow plug put a pulley in place of the prop and connect to an electric motor at 1000 rpm geared to give 10000 rpm on the engine crankshaft I turn the fuel on and start the motor this goes on for 4 x 12oz tanks of fuel with no nitro. this may sound daft but if you think how tight the new engine is and the loads on the big ends and little end it makes perfect sense to minimise the loads as far as possible by not having the engine fire while the initial cylinder matting is going on.
I am sure that most people know that a lot of engines they have looked at when turning the crank and get to top dead centre have found considerable play which on particularly tight engines but even not so tight this is the damage that will be caused even in an engine that has good lubrication simply because of the loads on the conrod bushes.
I have tested this and hence I use this method before starting a new engine, it has produced MDS engines for me that when fired up and run in give a smooth engine and very good power outperforming brands that are much more expensive.
In conclusion to the original question are MDS engines worth gettig a definate yes and if you look after your engine it will look after you, In the whole range I found the 40 a super engine that will hold its own against any engine in its class and can certinly give an expensive top Q40 engine a run for its money and all this for only a few bucks and not a few hundred.
The 58 is a real powerhouse 18000rpm 1.7hp its better than some 60 and 61s I have come across and its light 14oz the carb lets it down well worth changing the carb for a good quality aftermarket one although touch wood I have had no probs with mine yet only heard about others.
The 68 well all I can say is that it produces everything you could ask for and more, either get a new after market carb or an engine with the c2carb
the 61fr new in the box and never run it the carb is different better quality and tuned pipe supposed to be very powerful and I do not doubt that.
The above are the best I think in the MDS range although I personally have not had or seen the 15with tuned pipe wich is from all accounts very good and of course the18 there is also the black head range again I have not tried them only the ones mentioned above but not the 61 its still in the box waiting for the right project.
Well that covers all the MDS experience I have and even with the carb fault it is still a great engine and well worth what you pay if it needs a carb then give just engines a call they will supply a quality carb to suit.
Hope that helps with the descision you want to make one way to look at it is they are cheap and worth the investment of a quality carb if the one you get gives trouble.
They make very good engines but I feel the carbs must be made by another company as the quality is not the same high standard as the engine itself and if you are not capable of repairing or modifying the carb a quality replacement can be had from just engines who make carbs to fit all sorts of engines, if bearings are needed model fixings is a great site.
My view on these engines are they are absolutely first class but have bad press because of carb faults, they did bring out the C2 carb later which was much better. As far as spares go I got a lot of Ebay in the way of cheap engines but lately I think people have coughtened on to just how good these engines really are and the prices are going up.
As far as I know tower hobbies were dealing with MDS but I do not know if they still do, here in the UK Ripmax were dealing with them but no longer do.
The first thing I will say to anyone contemplating buying one of these engines is run it in very carefully before putting it in a plane they take a lot of running in and a good engine is easily be destroyed if not correctly run in. when new I have found these engines to be particularly tight and feel that many people have slighted them when it is the people themselves who have destroyed them when running them in.
Everyone has there own Idea on how to run an engine in and mine is slow and easy, I use no less than 10% nitro-methane and 20% castor oil 70% methanol I first start by putting the engine in a jig then connect the fuel line remove the glowplug and connect an exaust adapter that leads fuel back to a tank I connect an adapter with a pipe leading back to a tank in the place of the glow plug put a pulley in place of the prop and connect to an electric motor at 1000 rpm geared to give 10000 rpm on the engine crankshaft I turn the fuel on and start the motor this goes on for 4 x 12oz tanks of fuel with no nitro. this may sound daft but if you think how tight the new engine is and the loads on the big ends and little end it makes perfect sense to minimise the loads as far as possible by not having the engine fire while the initial cylinder matting is going on.
I am sure that most people know that a lot of engines they have looked at when turning the crank and get to top dead centre have found considerable play which on particularly tight engines but even not so tight this is the damage that will be caused even in an engine that has good lubrication simply because of the loads on the conrod bushes.
I have tested this and hence I use this method before starting a new engine, it has produced MDS engines for me that when fired up and run in give a smooth engine and very good power outperforming brands that are much more expensive.
In conclusion to the original question are MDS engines worth gettig a definate yes and if you look after your engine it will look after you, In the whole range I found the 40 a super engine that will hold its own against any engine in its class and can certinly give an expensive top Q40 engine a run for its money and all this for only a few bucks and not a few hundred.
The 58 is a real powerhouse 18000rpm 1.7hp its better than some 60 and 61s I have come across and its light 14oz the carb lets it down well worth changing the carb for a good quality aftermarket one although touch wood I have had no probs with mine yet only heard about others.
The 68 well all I can say is that it produces everything you could ask for and more, either get a new after market carb or an engine with the c2carb
the 61fr new in the box and never run it the carb is different better quality and tuned pipe supposed to be very powerful and I do not doubt that.
The above are the best I think in the MDS range although I personally have not had or seen the 15with tuned pipe wich is from all accounts very good and of course the18 there is also the black head range again I have not tried them only the ones mentioned above but not the 61 its still in the box waiting for the right project.
Well that covers all the MDS experience I have and even with the carb fault it is still a great engine and well worth what you pay if it needs a carb then give just engines a call they will supply a quality carb to suit.
Hope that helps with the descision you want to make one way to look at it is they are cheap and worth the investment of a quality carb if the one you get gives trouble.
01-22-2007, 05:23 PM
#7
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: MDS engines
ORIGINAL: bigedmustafa
With high quality .15-sized engines available from AP, Magnum, O.S., and Thunder Tiger, it makes one wonder why you would want to obtain MDS engines, Beeza. It looks like there are better choices available; ones where spare parts and warranty support wouldn't be as problematic.
With high quality .15-sized engines available from AP, Magnum, O.S., and Thunder Tiger, it makes one wonder why you would want to obtain MDS engines, Beeza. It looks like there are better choices available; ones where spare parts and warranty support wouldn't be as problematic.
----------
To be fair, the last time that I looked, "Just Engines" in England is still selling MDS engines and spares.
My one an only MDS engine is a .48 that came with a RTF airplane that I bought a while back. I haven't ran it as yet. When I grab the prop and move it around a bit I am impressed with the feel. It feels like a Rossi.
Club members that know the model and engine say that it ran really well. I have no idea what the original owner used for fuel, but I would be afraid to go above 5% nitro after feeling the excellent compression the engine has. Now to get it airborne. The transmitter charging jack needs some work, otherwise it is good to go.
I'm looking forward to trying this engine, just for the experience.
Ed Cregger
01-22-2007, 11:08 PM
#10
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: MDS engines
ORIGINAL: w8ye
Just Engines sells MVVS but not MDS.
Just Engines sells MVVS but not MDS.
---------------
I think I saw them there, but that may have been nearly a year ago. Maybe they were selling off old stock. Or maybe it was a different company in England. With so many other good brands available, I wouldn't buy/trade for another one.
Ed Cregger
01-22-2007, 11:19 PM
#11
My Feedback: (102)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes
on
25 Posts
RE: MDS engines
John, I would add to that the .78, 1.48 and 2.18, you can treat the .78 as if it were a .90, the 1.48 is in fact a 1.52, not that that is a big deal, the 2.18 has about the same power as a Zenoah G45, maybe 200 rpm stronger than the G45. Most Americans had trouble with them trying to use too much nitro.
01-23-2007, 02:54 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dublindublin, IRELAND
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: MDS engines
It seems like MDS has had a better luck and reputation in Europe than the US - mainly because of the US trends in using high Nitro content in the fuel.
I bought my first MDS around four years ago from a Dublin hobby store for Euro 20 ($26) - It was a 38 with a C-2 Carb, brand spanking new in box - stock clearance.
Since then I have bought quite a few MDS's on auction, mostly 58's - They fit in right to replace OS-46, weigh around an ounce less and provide about 15% power advantage. That means that low nitro is not much of a factor. A 58 would spin a MA 12-6 at 11300 all day, and has a wonderful throttle response - that is if you change the carb.
I have had great luck using carbs from my older Irvine engines - the black GRP body ones - something about this combination works better than any others that I have tried. I have found that it is cheaper to buy an MDS and switch carb than to rebuild an old Irvine or OS engine - and you end up with an engine which is far superior in many respects.
The 68 is a real powerhorse - and very quite too - currently one hauls my 7 lb 8 oz 3D model through its paces - it does not quite rocket out of a hover, but it would just pull out - and thats on the carb that came with it. Considering what I paid for it - around $ 65 BNIB, delivered - it is a wonderful engine.
A few club fellows use MDS -18s with long tuned pipes and 7-3 carbon props for pylon racing - The planes clock around 150 mph or more. At one time these 18s with the tuned pipe were available for about £20 ($40) -
So my point is, as far as bang for the buck and power to weight ratio goes - MDS has always been ahead of any other engine. Run them on low nitro, high castor and they would outperform most modern engines.
I bought my first MDS around four years ago from a Dublin hobby store for Euro 20 ($26) - It was a 38 with a C-2 Carb, brand spanking new in box - stock clearance.
Since then I have bought quite a few MDS's on auction, mostly 58's - They fit in right to replace OS-46, weigh around an ounce less and provide about 15% power advantage. That means that low nitro is not much of a factor. A 58 would spin a MA 12-6 at 11300 all day, and has a wonderful throttle response - that is if you change the carb.
I have had great luck using carbs from my older Irvine engines - the black GRP body ones - something about this combination works better than any others that I have tried. I have found that it is cheaper to buy an MDS and switch carb than to rebuild an old Irvine or OS engine - and you end up with an engine which is far superior in many respects.
The 68 is a real powerhorse - and very quite too - currently one hauls my 7 lb 8 oz 3D model through its paces - it does not quite rocket out of a hover, but it would just pull out - and thats on the carb that came with it. Considering what I paid for it - around $ 65 BNIB, delivered - it is a wonderful engine.
A few club fellows use MDS -18s with long tuned pipes and 7-3 carbon props for pylon racing - The planes clock around 150 mph or more. At one time these 18s with the tuned pipe were available for about £20 ($40) -
So my point is, as far as bang for the buck and power to weight ratio goes - MDS has always been ahead of any other engine. Run them on low nitro, high castor and they would outperform most modern engines.
01-23-2007, 10:10 AM
#13
RE: MDS engines
ORIGINAL: Hobbsy
you can treat the .78 as if it were a .90,
you can treat the .78 as if it were a .90,
01-23-2007, 11:12 AM
#14
My Feedback: (102)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes
on
25 Posts
RE: MDS engines
Many accused it of not having much power because they used too small prop and didn't get any rpm, it ain't an rpm engine, it's a thumper, and a good one. Mine is now a Diesel.
01-23-2007, 11:48 AM
#15
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lyndonville, VT
Posts: 3,305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: MDS engines
Hi All,
I had a MDS .78 a while back, when I went to break it in, it turned out to have a ring that was in about 4 pieces. Horizon could not fix it so they replaced it with an EVO .61, since I had won the MDS from a magazine, I thought it was more than a fair deal. My point in mentioning this is I still have the muffler, like new
. Anyone that could use it PM me, such a deal I can make you[8D]
Regards,
Pete
I had a MDS .78 a while back, when I went to break it in, it turned out to have a ring that was in about 4 pieces. Horizon could not fix it so they replaced it with an EVO .61, since I had won the MDS from a magazine, I thought it was more than a fair deal
. My point in mentioning this is I still have the muffler, like new. Anyone that could use it PM me, such a deal I can make you[8D]Regards,
Pete
01-30-2007, 09:16 PM
#16
Member
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Milford,
MI
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: MDS engines
I have a 68 in my trainer and talk about a powerhouse. People at my field always comment on how much power it has. I wish they were still for sale, I'd buy another in a heart beat. My 68 was even the original one with the old carb and muffler. I now have the new muffler since the old one fell off in flight (guess you have to tighten the screws when you put the muffler on, go figure, lol). I'll admit I had trouble getting it to stay running at first, but it just took a LONG time to break-in. Now that it's broken-in I haven't had to even touch it, all the while with the original carb (I did put a dab of high-temp silcone on the carb o-ring and around the set-screw though). Nobody is selling MDS anymore right?
02-18-2007, 03:01 PM
#18
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Edinburgh, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: MDS engines
Hobbsy I love my MDS engines and the ones you have mentioned that I have not got seem to show the same characteristics which only goes to show they are superb engines if you take the trouble to sort any problems one may come across with them in the US you use more nitro probably because it is cheaper there, if you wish to increase nitro to high levels try reducing compression by shiming the head. I use 10% in my 40 I tried 5 works OK but found mid range transition better with ten the 58 and 68 run great on 5% nitro and start dead easy first flick and thats no kidding the throttle response is instant and transition throughout the rev range super seems to me that the smaller engines work very well on no more than 10 and larger engines 5.well thats my experience with them.
02-18-2007, 04:12 PM
#20
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: MDS engines
ORIGINAL: Beeza
I'm looking into using MDS engines. I know they are mde in Russia.
Can somebody tell me how they compare to other r/c engines today?
I work mostly with .15 sized engines.
Any commnts?
Beeza
I'm looking into using MDS engines. I know they are mde in Russia.
Can somebody tell me how they compare to other r/c engines today?
I work mostly with .15 sized engines.
Any commnts?
Beeza
------------------
Are you aware of the fact that the importer (USA) has dropped them and no longer offers parts/support? If so, why would you choose this engine in light of no parts/service?
A while back, "Just Engines" was still showing sales and support. I haven't looked recently. Just Engines is located in England.
Maybe you are attracted by the very low prices of used MDS equipment? If you can find enough of them, cheaply enough, I suppose you could be your own parts/service supplier. I've done similar things. In fact, I'm collecting ASP engines even though they lack support in the USA, for just those reasons I stated about collecting MDS. Good luck.
Ed Cregger
04-09-2007, 02:23 PM
#21
Member
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado Springs,
CO
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: MDS engines
I have a brand new, never fired MDS .48 with muffler and spinner available. It came on a plane and I have changed to a Saito motor purely for looks. If interested in the motor please PM me. Pictures can be made available
Bob P
Bob P
04-09-2007, 02:43 PM
#22
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lyndonville, VT
Posts: 3,305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: MDS engines
While we're dumping our MDS stuff
I'll just mention I have an MDS .68 muffler, only run on test stand, engine died, muffler fine.
anyone that can use it PM me[8D]
Pete
I'll just mention I have an MDS .68 muffler, only run on test stand, engine died, muffler fine
.anyone that can use it PM me[8D]
Pete
04-09-2007, 08:23 PM
#25
RE: MDS engines
Great engines, crappy carbs doomed them in. Lots and lots of hard, true chrome. They won't be wearing out anytime soon, but crash it and you're out of luck. Have a 28, 46 blackhead, 48, two 58's and a 68 that hauls my Joss Stick like stink. The 48 I have in my Plastic Concepts Talon, the 46 in my old World Air trainer. I hit all carbs with RTV and when the orings were sloppy on the idle screw, I went and bought a different one and stuffed it in there. Heck, my TT 46 had a loose oring too.
But, the outsides didn't look like an os, like TT did. And I gotta agree, too many folks in my local hobby shop didn't want to buy fuel that had 10% nitro or less. Stick a head gasket in it? Isn't more compression better? And you wonder why diesel engines haven't caught on in America. Well, we've got enough stuff to figure out during a day and not every person is a motor man and NOBODY flies CL anymore. Oh, I know there are several thousand of us that do, but that's nobody comparitively.
So there gone essentially. If you are an engine man, have a bunch of them and want to use them till their all gone, or like many CL guys are USED to their favorite engines not being made in the last 40 years, scour the net for the parts you need. I'll run mine till the parts wear out and buy a new engine, probably TT, OS, GMS or Magnum. Something I can get new parts for. It won't be as good, but heck, if it never wore out I'd never get to buy a new one.
But, the outsides didn't look like an os, like TT did. And I gotta agree, too many folks in my local hobby shop didn't want to buy fuel that had 10% nitro or less. Stick a head gasket in it? Isn't more compression better? And you wonder why diesel engines haven't caught on in America. Well, we've got enough stuff to figure out during a day and not every person is a motor man and NOBODY flies CL anymore. Oh, I know there are several thousand of us that do, but that's nobody comparitively.
So there gone essentially. If you are an engine man, have a bunch of them and want to use them till their all gone, or like many CL guys are USED to their favorite engines not being made in the last 40 years, scour the net for the parts you need. I'll run mine till the parts wear out and buy a new engine, probably TT, OS, GMS or Magnum. Something I can get new parts for. It won't be as good, but heck, if it never wore out I'd never get to buy a new one.