OS 81FS-a
01-24-2008, 09:06 PM
#51
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RE: OS 81FS-a
ORIGINAL: JoeyCoates
I do not think that many would be bashing the 81 if the prices were in line, but as others have said people will decide on the success of the engine with their wallets more then they will by posting tach numbers. OS has a lot of money invested in the dedicated castings and machined parts for this engine, if people are not buying then I should imagine that it will not take long for the price to drop.
And who is to argue with their pricing strategy? The OS 81 currently comes in at $350 and the Saito 82 at around $255 (both before discounts etc). Say in early Spring (when flying season starts rolling again) OS decides to drop the price of the 81 to $300, a $50 reduction. Now all of the sudden some people will be saying "see now, OS realized that they were asking too much and lowered the price, now that's more like it" and they will buy the 81 as $50 is a good deal off of $350. But OS would still be getting $45 more then the 82, and $20 more then the Saito 100!
Who knows, maybe they are taking it in the rear for a little while so they can do a price reduction and still get more money for their engines then the competition.
One way or another something has to give, they must have noticed that these things are not exactly "flying" off of the shelves.
The numbers that togatoga got look pretty good though, and people will pay a bit more for a quality item and I do believe that by and large OS does make very good and long lasting engines. They have had a few bumps, but not many.
I do not think that many would be bashing the 81 if the prices were in line, but as others have said people will decide on the success of the engine with their wallets more then they will by posting tach numbers. OS has a lot of money invested in the dedicated castings and machined parts for this engine, if people are not buying then I should imagine that it will not take long for the price to drop.
And who is to argue with their pricing strategy? The OS 81 currently comes in at $350 and the Saito 82 at around $255 (both before discounts etc). Say in early Spring (when flying season starts rolling again) OS decides to drop the price of the 81 to $300, a $50 reduction. Now all of the sudden some people will be saying "see now, OS realized that they were asking too much and lowered the price, now that's more like it" and they will buy the 81 as $50 is a good deal off of $350. But OS would still be getting $45 more then the 82, and $20 more then the Saito 100!
Who knows, maybe they are taking it in the rear for a little while so they can do a price reduction and still get more money for their engines then the competition.
One way or another something has to give, they must have noticed that these things are not exactly "flying" off of the shelves.
The numbers that togatoga got look pretty good though, and people will pay a bit more for a quality item and I do believe that by and large OS does make very good and long lasting engines. They have had a few bumps, but not many.
I'm sure the new .81 is a fine engine, but I don't like the price gouging. If it is successful, it will drive the price of ALL engines up. Guess who loses? We all do!
01-24-2008, 09:15 PM
#52
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RE: OS 81FS-a
If they knock down $50 from $350 price tag, and tower knocks down another $30-$40 as discount, this engine will be available for around $260 which in my book would be a very reasonable price for a well engineered, high quality engine.
So Ken, we wont really lose anything.
So Ken, we wont really lose anything.
01-24-2008, 09:25 PM
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RE: OS 81FS-a
Sure you will. You would then be RELYING on that discount code to get the engine down to a reasonable price. When it stops, and you need an engine right then, what will you do? You'll pay it, because after all, it IS $50 cheaper than it started out.
Can't you see that this is EXACTLY how prices are incrementally raised? Throw in the degrading dollar, and there's another justification for a price increase.
Whoops - I forgot - the devaluation of our US dollar doesn't really affect you, does it? Well, I guess I won't get much sympathy from those already paying astronomical prices.
Ken6PPC for President! Lower RC engine prices for all!
I'll get off the soap box now.........
Can't you see that this is EXACTLY how prices are incrementally raised? Throw in the degrading dollar, and there's another justification for a price increase.
Whoops - I forgot - the devaluation of our US dollar doesn't really affect you, does it? Well, I guess I won't get much sympathy from those already paying astronomical prices.
Ken6PPC for President! Lower RC engine prices for all!
I'll get off the soap box now.........
01-24-2008, 09:49 PM
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RE: OS 81FS-a
ORIGINAL: Ken6PPC
Whoops - I forgot - the devaluation of our US dollar doesn't really affect you, does it? Well, I guess I won't get much sympathy from those already paying astronomical prices.
Whoops - I forgot - the devaluation of our US dollar doesn't really affect you, does it? Well, I guess I won't get much sympathy from those already paying astronomical prices.
81a here in Turkey currently is 329 €.. ~ 480 USD retail.. at best with 5-6% discount = 450-455 USD.. In rest of Europe, I dont think it will be cheaper than 300 €..
Thats why at every chance I got, I tell a friend to grab some engines from US before he returns.
01-24-2008, 10:10 PM
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RE: OS 81FS-a
With all that has been said, I would like to see some more numbers on the 81. When togatoga gets a bit of time on his I think that it would be interesting to compare numbers to even the Saito 100 as it DOES look to be pretty strong from the limited numbers posted. And I do believe in OS quality, other then the peeling lining issues they has, OS has a great reputation for quality and ease of use. Which is not to say that Saito does not....
01-25-2008, 02:26 AM
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RE: OS 81FS-a
Hey, on this new 81, I understand there is no breather tube at all, not even one that goes to the intake manifold. If that's the case, does anyone know how they are circulating the blowby oil within the engine and how to inject after run oil if so desired?
Thanks,
Ernie
Thanks,
Ernie
01-25-2008, 05:07 AM
#62
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RE: OS 81FS-a
The blowby oil is as OS puts it "sucked out thru' the pushrod tube into the rocker case and then injected into the combustion chamber thru' a hole in the inlet valve chamber".
You can put afterrun into the exhaust and let it slowly find its way down.
I think pricing issues lie with the distributor not the manufacturer- they can only provide a guideline. Thing is , in Japan the price difference for engines in a certain category are different in price only by a thousand yen ($8) or so. A saito 82a is about 31000yen, an OS 91 pump is 31000yen a YS63s is 30500yen. To the japanese the price of a pump and non pump version of the 91 for example is about 3000yen roughly $24.So for the japanese modeller the price difference between engines is equivalent to a cheap standup meal at the train station!
You can put afterrun into the exhaust and let it slowly find its way down.
I think pricing issues lie with the distributor not the manufacturer- they can only provide a guideline. Thing is , in Japan the price difference for engines in a certain category are different in price only by a thousand yen ($8) or so. A saito 82a is about 31000yen, an OS 91 pump is 31000yen a YS63s is 30500yen. To the japanese the price of a pump and non pump version of the 91 for example is about 3000yen roughly $24.So for the japanese modeller the price difference between engines is equivalent to a cheap standup meal at the train station!
01-25-2008, 08:16 AM
#63
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RE: OS 81FS-a
ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave
I love my OS engines....mostly old FSR's and a lone (old style) .90 FS.
I can't see spending $350.00 on an .81, when I can buy two .91's and
three gallons of fuel for that money. Sorry, OS high prices left me
behind a long time ago, not to mention the parts prices.
Perhaps it's unkind to put a damper on someones inclinations.... but I
see these prices as taking unfair advantage of hobbyist's and modelers.
Think about it....you could buy three lawn mowers for that money. [
]
That would be three 4 HP Briggs and Stratton engines.
Gimme a break, OS. [:@]
I love my OS engines....mostly old FSR's and a lone (old style) .90 FS.
I can't see spending $350.00 on an .81, when I can buy two .91's and
three gallons of fuel for that money. Sorry, OS high prices left me
behind a long time ago, not to mention the parts prices.
Perhaps it's unkind to put a damper on someones inclinations.... but I
see these prices as taking unfair advantage of hobbyist's and modelers.
Think about it....you could buy three lawn mowers for that money. [
]That would be three 4 HP Briggs and Stratton engines.
Gimme a break, OS. [:@]
------------
That was a terrific analogy, Dave. Many folks flying R/C models are young family men/women. Your analogy puts things into the proper perspective.
I'm old enough (many of you also) to remember when Tower was just starting out. They made their niche in the hobby by offering no frills, no trouble, low priced products to the average modeler on a daily basis, year after year. They have forgotten from whence they came, and like many other organizations that get large and who forget their roots, they set themselves up for a competitor to come along and shoot them out of the saddle, using the same techniques that they employed in their humble beginnings.
I remember when Tower's sale sheets/catalogs were photocopied type written sheets of paper. No pictures, no SS Club, none of the bullstock that is weighing them down so heavily these days. Just the basics. Yes, I long for the old days.
I still shop at Tower and will continue to do so as long as they represent the lowest price/best service for a particular item. With the much higher OS prices of late, OS is slowly being eliminated from my shopping list.
Ed Cregger
01-25-2008, 08:53 AM
#64
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RE: OS 81FS-a
ORIGINAL: Harry Lagman
Unless you've been grinding parts of the Saito 100 away with the dremel, the Saito 100 is a heavier engine than the OS .81. Check any of the readily available manufacturer specs on the two to confirm.
Unless you've been grinding parts of the Saito 100 away with the dremel, the Saito 100 is a heavier engine than the OS .81. Check any of the readily available manufacturer specs on the two to confirm.
How often do you see the 91 FX adverticed to weigh 770 grams???? OS says it weighs 550 grams[sm=lol.gif] They are not exactly lying, just telling half the thruth.
We all know that the Saito 100 weighs 600 grams, so even without my famous dremelling (which I only do to twostrokes
) it is still lighter than the OS 81, which is REALLY close to their own 91 in weight.Facts are facts
01-25-2008, 09:26 AM
#65
RE: OS 81FS-a
A Magnum .91rfs's will run just as clean as the new OS with recirc since the Magnum also has recirc. I cannot see $150.00 and one ounce being worth it.[sm=idea.gif].[sm=idea.gif][sm=idea.gif] My .91 is spinning a 14-6 APC @ 10,400 on WC 20/20.
[sm=idea.gif][sm=idea.gif] My .91 is spinning a 14-6 APC @ 10,400 on WC 20/20.
01-25-2008, 11:23 AM
#66
RE: OS 81FS-a
Here's the typical MSRP (Manufactures suggested retail price) game that people play. Then
they come out with what they call the "street price"....what it actually sells for. The idea is to
make you think you are getting a deal....everyone knows that.
Now, in fairness....Cenrtal doesn't advertize the MSRP price, only their price which is always
a very good price.
I got in on the last batch of YS .91FZ's before they came out with the 1.10, YS engines
were the most high priced (I think) but OS and Saito are high priced as well. Look at the
price.... $274.16 I snagged a couple of them.
The YS engine has a pump, a regulator, fuel injection, and a supercharger. It spins a
regular wood Zinger 14-8 at over 10 grand, and that is a hard prop to spin, and I'm at
high altitude. The 14-8 is the smallest prop recommended in the manual.
OS wants 75 bucks more for a plain Jane 81 with probably an air bleed prop ? Yeah, right.
Personally, I don't see why OS is bothering with the .81 in the first place. They have a nice
70 and a top notch 91....I guess they just want something "new" out on the market.
FBD.
they come out with what they call the "street price"....what it actually sells for. The idea is to
make you think you are getting a deal....everyone knows that.
Now, in fairness....Cenrtal doesn't advertize the MSRP price, only their price which is always
a very good price.
I got in on the last batch of YS .91FZ's before they came out with the 1.10, YS engines
were the most high priced (I think) but OS and Saito are high priced as well. Look at the
price.... $274.16
I snagged a couple of them.The YS engine has a pump, a regulator, fuel injection, and a supercharger. It spins a
regular wood Zinger 14-8 at over 10 grand, and that is a hard prop to spin, and I'm at
high altitude. The 14-8 is the smallest prop recommended in the manual.
OS wants 75 bucks more for a plain Jane 81 with probably an air bleed prop ? Yeah, right.
Personally, I don't see why OS is bothering with the .81 in the first place. They have a nice
70 and a top notch 91....I guess they just want something "new" out on the market.
FBD.
01-25-2008, 11:42 AM
#67
RE: OS 81FS-a
The best guesses that I've heard are that Saito has been outselling OS in four strokes. Next, OS is facing stiffer competition on the two stroke side. (I don't agree with their dropping the .46FX and .50SX.) It looks like they are upgrading and changing their product line. Saito is changing and adding to theirs with the .62, 1.25 and 2.20.
Possibly the OS market experts are looking for a modern look to their engine line while looking to rejuvenate profits. I don't know and I don't think any of us really do except for speculation like my own here.
The trend to keep repair parts too expensive and raising the prices of these new engines is disturbing. The competition seems to be going the other way.
Possibly the OS market experts are looking for a modern look to their engine line while looking to rejuvenate profits. I don't know and I don't think any of us really do except for speculation like my own here.
The trend to keep repair parts too expensive and raising the prices of these new engines is disturbing. The competition seems to be going the other way.
01-25-2008, 12:51 PM
#68
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RE: OS 81FS-a
Who knows, maybe OS will finally get smart like Mercedes Benz did in the early 90's.
Do you guys remember when the Lexus LS400 was first indroduced in 1990? At the time Mercedes was kind of resting on their reputation, their S-Class sedans were old, outdated, and expensive. All of the sudden here was Lexus, a Japanese manufacture who came out with a more technically advanced, reliable, and very good high performance sedan that quickly built a stellar reputation for service as well. In short Mercedes bagan to get their rear end handed to them in very rapidly and not too long after thet they introduced a new S-Class and dropped the base price at the same time.
Saito and YS have been out for a while, but they keep coming out with new/inovative/high performance engines for a lot less then what OS is asking for their similar displacement engines. Sooner or later they will see that people are not buying the engines due to price, even if they are in fact good engines. They just do not offer anything to justify the cost to the average American Modeler. Sure, the prices may be competative in other counties, but I would have to assume that their bread is buttered in the States, they will either get with the program, or suffer the consequences. I like OS and I do truley hope that they reduce the MSRP and thuse the "street prices" will drop as well. Some bean counter in Japan HAS to see the writing on the wall, at least they do if they wish to keep their product a viable option....
Do you guys remember when the Lexus LS400 was first indroduced in 1990? At the time Mercedes was kind of resting on their reputation, their S-Class sedans were old, outdated, and expensive. All of the sudden here was Lexus, a Japanese manufacture who came out with a more technically advanced, reliable, and very good high performance sedan that quickly built a stellar reputation for service as well. In short Mercedes bagan to get their rear end handed to them in very rapidly and not too long after thet they introduced a new S-Class and dropped the base price at the same time.
Saito and YS have been out for a while, but they keep coming out with new/inovative/high performance engines for a lot less then what OS is asking for their similar displacement engines. Sooner or later they will see that people are not buying the engines due to price, even if they are in fact good engines. They just do not offer anything to justify the cost to the average American Modeler. Sure, the prices may be competative in other counties, but I would have to assume that their bread is buttered in the States, they will either get with the program, or suffer the consequences. I like OS and I do truley hope that they reduce the MSRP and thuse the "street prices" will drop as well. Some bean counter in Japan HAS to see the writing on the wall, at least they do if they wish to keep their product a viable option....
01-25-2008, 01:03 PM
#69
Senior Member
RE: OS 81FS-a
I would have understood why they made that 81 IF it had been weighing about the same as the saito 82 and YS 63, but at almost the same weight as a regular 91, why even bother????
I guess there are enough OS fanatics out there who want a small heavy engine for them to make it. Not saying it isn`t a great quality engine, just that it isn`t particular light weight. The price may come down, but the weight will remain.
My next fourstroke will propably be the Saito 100, it will beat the OS 81 at price, power AND weight.
Why settle for less????
I guess there are enough OS fanatics out there who want a small heavy engine for them to make it. Not saying it isn`t a great quality engine, just that it isn`t particular light weight. The price may come down, but the weight will remain.
My next fourstroke will propably be the Saito 100, it will beat the OS 81 at price, power AND weight.
Why settle for less????
01-25-2008, 02:07 PM
#70
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RE: OS 81FS-a
ORIGINAL: asmund
I would have understood why they made that 81 IF it had been weighing about the same as the saito 82 and YS 63, but at almost the same weight as a regular 91, why even bother????
I guess there are enough OS fanatics out there who want a small heavy engine for them to make it. Not saying it isn`t a great quality engine, just that it isn`t particular light weight. The price may come down, but the weight will remain.
My next fourstroke will propably be the Saito 100, it will beat the OS 81 at price, power AND weight.
Why settle for less????
I would have understood why they made that 81 IF it had been weighing about the same as the saito 82 and YS 63, but at almost the same weight as a regular 91, why even bother????
I guess there are enough OS fanatics out there who want a small heavy engine for them to make it. Not saying it isn`t a great quality engine, just that it isn`t particular light weight. The price may come down, but the weight will remain.
My next fourstroke will propably be the Saito 100, it will beat the OS 81 at price, power AND weight.
Why settle for less????
---------------
Let's not forget that OS Engines does not set the prices for their engines in the US. The importer sets the prices. This is the same importer that increased prices overnight by 1/3rd when they took over US distribution from World Engines some years back. OS Engines had nothing to do with it. Let's put the blame squarely where it lies.
I'm not anti Tower, just anti modern Tower's greedy traits. Their previous business model of offering everyone's products at good prices was the Tower I would like to see return. The present policy of offering mostly products that they have a special corner on sucks. They are painting themselves into a corner and they are contributing to the hastening of US modelers dealing direct with distributors in China at considerable savings. I just bought a 26cc gasoline EI engine for $150 and $30 shipping, from Hong Kong. The engine is receiving rave reviews and it looks very appealling. Posted reviews have been stellar. Where is Tower or Horizon Hobby in all of this? Is this why the owner's turned the company over to the employees and beat feet?
Ed Cregger
01-25-2008, 02:18 PM
#71
Senior Member
RE: OS 81FS-a
Yes I am avare that it is not only OS that dictates the price we have to pay, but my point is that even if the 81 was the same price as the Saito 82 or 100 or YS 63, I still wouldn`t get it because all those other engines seems better to me. Either alot less weight and about the same power (YS 63 and Saito 82) or a little less weight and alot more power (Saito 100)
I guess the only reason to buy this engine is because it is a "new" OS engine.I am not a OS fanatic (I do own OS engines) but rather a multiple brand guy and are always seeking the best buy.
In my eyes this is not a best buy, so I`ll pass on this one even though it is propably a great engine like all currently made OS fourstrokes, it just doesn`t offer anything special.
I guess the only reason to buy this engine is because it is a "new" OS engine.I am not a OS fanatic (I do own OS engines) but rather a multiple brand guy and are always seeking the best buy.
In my eyes this is not a best buy, so I`ll pass on this one even though it is propably a great engine like all currently made OS fourstrokes, it just doesn`t offer anything special.
01-25-2008, 02:37 PM
#72
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: OS 81FS-a
It was not my intention to dismiss your point, Asmund. I agreed with you and felt no need to further comment on your well made point.
There are some modelers who will buy only OS regardless of the disadvantages they possess in a power to weight sense. Why? Because they are OS brand loyal and they do not want to be confused with the facts. BTDT.
What gets me is that OS probably has the resources (R&D staff and ability to hire outsiders) and they could probably develop the lightest, most powerful engines to date, if they so took a mind to do so. Then why are they doing what they are doing? Beats me. I'm happy with the OS engines I currently have (some very recent), so I'm not knocking them one bit. I just do not understand where they are coming from, if you know what I mean.
In the interim, the Chinese are making terrific inroads into marketing, technology and distribution. We all know, or should know, that eventually the entire market will be there's, at least until India, Bangladesh, Pakistan and other countries come on line. Too bad the South Americans won't be part of this, but their cultures prohibit their participation. Maybe some day.
Ed Cregger
There are some modelers who will buy only OS regardless of the disadvantages they possess in a power to weight sense. Why? Because they are OS brand loyal and they do not want to be confused with the facts. BTDT.
What gets me is that OS probably has the resources (R&D staff and ability to hire outsiders) and they could probably develop the lightest, most powerful engines to date, if they so took a mind to do so. Then why are they doing what they are doing? Beats me. I'm happy with the OS engines I currently have (some very recent), so I'm not knocking them one bit. I just do not understand where they are coming from, if you know what I mean.
In the interim, the Chinese are making terrific inroads into marketing, technology and distribution. We all know, or should know, that eventually the entire market will be there's, at least until India, Bangladesh, Pakistan and other countries come on line. Too bad the South Americans won't be part of this, but their cultures prohibit their participation. Maybe some day.
Ed Cregger
01-25-2008, 03:36 PM
#73
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RE: OS 81FS-a
On the new OS 81, putting after run oil in through the exhaust or glow plug, and then letting it slowly drain down into the crankcase doesn't sound like something most people would do, or it may take forever to actually get enough by the ring. Or, the valve covers could be removed and pour it more directly down the pushrod tubes. Is OS even recommending the use of after run oil? It doesn't sound like it.
Ernie
Ernie
01-25-2008, 04:31 PM
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RE: OS 81FS-a
Misner, Ive used the 56a for more than 6 months without a single drop of ARO, and checked from head to toe recently. It shines all inside.. It was literally all wet with oil in every corner of the internals.