liquid_TR

Well..

Im one of those hard core OS engines users. I always liked the build quality, user friendliness, reliability and performance of OS engines.. Ive personally saw only 1 case of liner peel, but always thought that is was caused by user error.

But this time I can say at least for myself, as suggested by some other users before, there IS a very real potential problem of liner peeling on 46AX.

This engine that belongs to my friend is about 5 or 6 gallons old.. I disassembled it a couple of times.

First 2 - 1/2 gallons of fuel used was Morgan CoolPower 10% MV 18%oil. Due to bearing rust, I made sure we added a couple of ounces of pure castor to the fuel, raising the total oil content upto 20-21% for added protection against lean runs and corrosion.

After a little more than 3 gallons of the new mix, I thought I heard bearing noise on his engine last sunday. Today I dissasembled the engine once again, to find out that the liner was peeled, piston scuffed a little. ugly ugly sight to see..

Well..Always I tune his engine, and Ive been tuning these glow engines for nearly 15 years now.. I especially made sure that he never ran his engine on the lean side as he usually flies wide open throttle with his spacewalker airframe. Props were always either 11x5 or 11x6 APC, so it never over-revved.

This thread is just for information purposes. I still love my ringed OS engines, and will keep running them hard, but SHAME on OS for this low-low quality 46AX..

I hope my 2 gallon old 15k rpm running 55AX doesnt fail me the same way 46AX failed my friend....

wcmorrison

My Feedback: (2)

Six gallons is about 12 hours of flying time at burning one ounce per minute. I'd say it is worn out. I speculate that the liner did not peel but just wore away. That much time on an engine is a lot. But then I also would not use Coo Power even with extra added Castor oil.

Good luck,

Chip

JCINTEXAS

__________________________________________________ _________________

Chip,
I respectfully disagree. The engine shouldn't be "worn-out" with only six gallons run through it. I had a Rossi .60 on a pattern plane and flew it for 4 years and a little over 100 gallons. It still wasn't "worn-out" when I sold it. I had the old Webra Blackhead with at least 40 gallons thru it before I sold it and the Kaos on which it was mounted. I am now flying the OS .46AX on a Tower .40 Kaos and have almost 9 gallons through it. [PowerMaster 10%]. If it wears-out before 50 gallons, I will be disappointed. Any modern ball-bearing engine should be good for 50 or more gallons if operated properly. Sounds to me as if liquid_TR has operated his engine properly. Perhaps OS has a problem with it's "Bi-Metallic" technology.
Regards
JC (Smithville, TX)

yallaair

Maybe that's the life expectancy on O.S AX 46. It is definitely worn out due to peeling. ABN setups has probably not a longer average life before its worn out.

proptop

My Feedback: (8)

Well...first off...(JMO of course ) it doesn't surprise me...and 2nd...that's not bad (yet ) it can get a lot worse before the engine gets to be a pain in the rear end to tune.

Is there any missing plating right at the top edge of the exhaust port(s )?

I am currently flying another FX that is peeling/flaking (my 2nd one ) and it looks much much worse than yours...

One (? ) more opinion...6 gallons isn't really enough to "wear out" a P/L set...but I guess that's subjective, huh?! FWIW, I put 20+ gal. through a TT .46 a few years ago before it started to loose some plating. (I think that was because it sucked some sand though...)

Edit: I know...yours is an AX...just wanted to clarify that...and the improved ABL just took a little while longer before it started to peel/flake...instead of doing it at 1-2 gallons like my FX's did.

liquid_TR

So what are u sayin proptop, that the AX series is 3 times better than FX series? LOL

Jokes aside, I know this liner can run for at least 1 or 2 more gallons, but why would I have to replace a P/L set at $70 just for another "maybe" 10 gallons?

also, there is no peeling other than you see on the photo. But there is some scuffing..

BlackB12

My Feedback: (9)

I know it wasn't run too lean, but was it right to RICH? ABx engines if not allowed to get up to temp will always be tighter at TDC causing premature wear on the liner.

Just a possibility.

Mike

YUKONFLYR

An engine that is cared for like you describe should not be doing that after 5-6 gallons[:@], Its a sad sight to see........kinda like impending death or being on death row..[:'(]

This is one of the reasons that I no longer choose to spend my $$$$ with OS products. If others cast their votes the same way, the company will either have to increase quality or give way to another.

Jezmo

I know 5 or 6 gallons is not nearly enough to wear out most true ABC engines. I have a SuperTigre 45 that has over thirty gallons and still runs great and my Magnum 46 XLS (also true chrome) is still running as good as the day is was broke in. It has about 15 gallons through it. JMTC (I still think OS makes some of the finest Ringed Engines out there)

XJet

You're kidding right?

I have a TT46Pro here that is coming up to 400 hours of running and it's still strong enough to fly a 4.5lb 3D profile with excellent pull-out from a hover. The TT also uses a nickel plated liner so when done properly this technology is very tough.

Maybe it's just the lighting but I'm damned if I can see *ANY* nickel on that liner. It looks like it's jut an unplated brass liner.

Even if the plating wore off the bore, it should still be apparent on the *outside* because the ENP system plates the whole thing inside and out.

Could it be that you simply got an engine that was inadvertently fitted with a liner that had skipped the plating process?

asmund

Good point, it should look like this: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGCU6&P=Z


Seems as it never got dipped in the nickel at all[sm=lol.gif]

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

I put an ASP .46 Ser. 3 P&L set into my O.S. .46 FX when it's liner died after only a few litres of fuel (containing 20% lube, 50:50 castor/synth).

Straight out of the packet the ASP liner looked like a jewel, very high quality finish, beautiful chrome plating. Perfect fit in the O.S. .46FX. The .46 FX now has a second chance.

That image on Tower's site for the O.S. replacement would have Mr. Ogawa in tears.

liquid_TR

hahh no, its the lighting - its got the proper color.

JCINTEXAS

Quote:
"I know 5 or 6 gallons is not nearly enough to wear out most true ABC engines..."
__________________________________________________ _________

Heck...back in the 60s, I had a couple of Fox .35 engines in Noblers that easily had 20 gallons run through them and they were still running great. Those were lapped-piston bushing bearings. I didn't keep track of the gallons, but I had a garage full of empty Fox Superfuel 1 gallon cans. These modern engines made on computerized precision machines and with ball bearings should be good for at least 50 gallons....if they are treated right. I have a brand new OS 1.20AX in the box. If there is a problem with the "Bi-Metallic" liners, I will sell this engine and switch to something else. I wish Webra was still around. Maybe I can find a Rossi.
Regards
JC

liquid_TR

Ive got the 120AX as well, its a great engine and its a ringed design. No nickel to peel. Just a very strong steel liner that wouldnt wear out.

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

I know of some engines that are just getting nicely broken in by the 6 gallon mark.
I run the snot out of engines, a lot for testing blends. There is not one OS nickle plated engine (including the 46AX & 55AX) that I have not been able to peel the liner out of. Most of the time if its going to happen, it will be in the first gallon or so, and frequently on the first few tanks. I have never peeled an ABN Thunder Tiger or Webra.

OS has not perfected the ABL/ABN process and really should look at the way TT or Webra do it. There are some that say its a small percentage of engines that peel but consider that a few companies over the years (Just Engines, Saturn Hobbies and one other) have made chrome plated sleeves specificaly for the 46FX engines and no brands. Even the Late George Aldrich plated over 100 peeled 46FX liners before he died.

I agree with XJet and a couple others, well designed and manufactured ABN engines will easily last 50+ gallons and I've had several go over the hundred gallon mark.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

OS is most probably kidding themselves without knowing it. I doubt if OS has a true grasp on P&L failures because of the aftermarket substitutions on the 46FX and also from people who never got the engine repaired. They just put it in the junk box and bought another brand.

However I've had three late model OS 46FX's and the liners never peeled.

YUKONFLYR

I was lucky......I sold mine instead of it ending up in a junk drawer.......

I have never bought another OS product due to this issue with the liners....I spend my money elsewhere...........

Du

Strykaas

[:'(]

rustypep

My Feedback: (6)

I was just getting ready to buy a 55ax [>:]

liquid_TR

well my own hard running 55AX better continue to scream and impress me, as I've just payed $65 for an ultrathrust muffler..

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

....castor, castor, and more castor.

....did I mention castor ?

scott17

Try the JBA 56!

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

---------------


I flew a couple seasons of pattern using Cool Power 10% nitro fuel without a single incident. I did run the engines out dry after every flying session and doused them in Marvel Air Tool Oil if I wasn't going flying in a couple of days after the last flight.

The only time I had any noticable problems that could be attributed to Cool Power was when I ran the fuel through engines that lacked bushings on one end or the other of the connecting rods. In my case, the engines were a plain bearing Fox .19 R/C and a K&B .40 with an unbushed wrist pin end. This wear did not happen over night. It took a year or so to wear out the rod before it needed replacement in the K&B .40 and not quite a year for the Fox .19 R/C. Both engines received their share of ARO, to no avail.

My pattern ships' engines were flown with tuned pipes and 11x7 props, so they weren't being babied.


Ed Cregger

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

Dave,
I have used all castor blends (20%) in some of them during break in and if its going to peel, its gonnal peel. Its all about the quality of manufacture rather than the fuel.
I can break in and run Webra's, TT's, Rossi's, MVVS's and others on 10% oil with only a little castor and never have a problem, and I abuse my test engines. Then again, I use high end synthetics equal to or better than the European offerings, in my fuel.

Like I said, if its going to happen, it'll happen early in its life (I don't consider 6 gallons well used).

At least with Hobby Services, you get fairly good customer support for the premium you pay for an OS.

Webra's, are now available through Paul Swanson at swaneyshouse.com, TT's are available all over, MVVS's are available through Dar, Dave and Pe', but rossi's are a little more scarce.