bzizzi

I am trying to start my new Saito 82 for the first time and when I put finger over the muffler and try to draw fuel it comes part way up tube and then stops,I only filled tank half way up,should I fill tank the whole way or what ??? Please advise,I am using a chicken stick to start along with a Hangar 9 glow start.Also what is the brass nipple for on bottom of engine ??? Please bare with me because this is my first fuel engine,I always flew electrics !!!

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

I would fill the tank but I don't think that's the problem. You should be choking with the carb all the way open and the HS needle three turns out. If you are doing this already you may have a problem in the tank. The extra nipple on the crankcase is the overflow. It will spit the extra fuel out of the crankcase. During break in when the engine is rich it will spit out a bunch of fuel. Once you get it set up it will only spit out a little. You should put a short piece of fuel line on it so it will exit out of the engine bay.

David

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Most people refer to the nipple on the crankcase as the "crankcase vent" but in any event it serves the purpose mention by Dave.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

You said that this is your first glow engine, but you didn't mention if you had the manual or not. Here is the link to download it:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo...der_Manual.pdf

ChrisAttebery

My Feedback: (15)

Set the throttle to full, put your finger over the carb, turn the motor over a few flips by hand. It should pull fuel this way. If not you're probably too lean. RTFM. I believe that there is a choke available. If you're going to be hand starting itall the time you might want to invest in it.

it could be an exercise in frustration if you're trying to flip start it. My 82 is a PITA to flip start even though it has several gallons through it.

XJet

But *PLEASE* make sure you don't do this with the glow-connector attached!

How do I know?

I'm not saying :-)

ChrisAttebery

My Feedback: (15)

Man Xjet, I almost choked I laughed so hard.

bzizzi

Got it started !!! I did exactly what the manual said to do and the first step was "Quote" "Fill the fuel tank" after that it drew fuel right away into the carb and I installed the ignitor and flipped it once with a paint roller and it started right up !!! I ran one full tank through it
and set up the throttle with radio.How many tanks do I run through this motor before I can fly ?? How low should I set the low idle ???
also I am running a 13X8 APC prop,what RPM should I be at at WOT ??? How do I know where to set the needle valve so i am not to lean,the manual said to open up 2-1/2 turns for initial break in,but it really pumps out the smoke and oil @4000 rpm for break in.
After owning all electrics it really is cool owning a fuel motor,the sound is awesome,have to get used to the oily mess but baby wipes do a really good job of cleaning up the mess.I think I am hooked on these Glow planes,battery cost of large electrics is just too high,for the price of a large battery pack,ESC and electric motor I can get a Saito and have money left over !!!!

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

BZ, first, the 4,000 is only for 10 minutes and then you to increase the speed, I use 1,000 additional rpm for each additional 10 minutes. You need a tachometer to set the HS needle, it's best to do all this in an engine test stand, too hard to do on the plane.
Example rpms are
4,000 for 10 minutes
5,000 for 10 minutes etc. at about 40 minutes run time peak the HS needle and then procede to adjut the LS needle by leaning it 1/8 turn at a time, checking to transition and HS operation after every other change. This method helps you keep track of what you're doing, after doing 4 or 5 engines it become second nature.

cncswiss1

get a new glow plug or glow plug ignitor. my .82 starts with a backflip against compression after a quick prime by covering the exhaust @ full throttle, 5 more flips after seeing fuel reach the carb. the backflip is done normally using the spinner for a grip.

ChrisAttebery

My Feedback: (15)

CNC,

I've got a RS Pro Driver and always use an OS F. Maybe it's a technique thing, maybe it's because I only have a spinner nut to flip it with, maybe I'm not choking it enough, but it's usually a PITA. My Dynatron starts it right up so I really don't care, except on the odd chance that I've got a dead battery.


Chris

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

Chris not to beat a dead horse but when done right it will start easy with the back flip. I put my finger over the muffler at WOT and flip it through. It takes 2-3 times and the fuel will spit out the carb. I then flip it twice at WOT without my thumb on the exhaust. Then go to a high idle and back flip. I also have some with just a prop nut. I put my thumb on the nut and my middle finger on the face of the prop. Then just back flip like you were snapping you fingers. Mine will start on the first back flip 90% of the time. I also have a starter that works fine to. But there may be a day when you need to hand start it.

David

the pope

I have trouble hand starting my 82, although its propably my favourite engine it has no respect for its masters fingers. Even my chicken stick has the scars to prove it .Its a ***** cat when started with a starter though. As for back flicking it either it or any of my other engines wont come to the party.Evan other people with the same engines cant start ny engines this way, How weird is that and while on the subject of weird stuff a flying buddy had a saito and when he would put the wing on his plane the engine would just stop dead. It would run fine without the wing. figgure that one out . Cheers the pope

bzizzi

My Saito is Newest version and I cannot find the low speed adjustment,I think they did away with it because there is a hex head
insert were the adjustment should be and it is not adjustable,it runs awesome and idles fine though.

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

I am attaching a pic. The small brass screw in the center of the throttle arm is the low end. Are you maybe looking at the hex screw that holds the arm on? If they have changed to a hex head the location will still be the same in the center of the arm. It will run fine with the low end rich. It will however cost you some fuel and the plane will have more oil on it at the end of the day.

David

bzizzi

Thanks for the picture !!!! This makes it much easier to find !!!! You learn something new every day !!!

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

That's what RCU is all about. Good luck with your tune.

David

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

It wouldn't hurt to fill the tank all the way up, as along as the centerline of the fuel tank is at or below (slightly) the level of the carb spray bar.

Do yourself a favor and buy an electric starter as quickly as you can afford to do so. Don't skimp on the battery size. A 7 AH battery is the absolute minimum to be considered.

Chicken sticks ruin props, become projectiles when struck by the prop and permit you to apply too much muscle power to an engine that might be hydraulically locked. Get that electric starter and don't ever consider putting your fingers on the prop/in the prop arc.

I was Mr. Macho hand starter for many decades. It took nearly loosing three fingers to finally make me understand the stupidity of risking any appendages to the meat grinder mounted on the front of our engines.


Ed Cregger

bzizzi

I switched to a OS type "F" glow plug and it really starts easy now !!!! Don't ask me why ???
BTW,I purchased a tach and am getting around 2700K-3000K for a good reliable idle and 10,500 @wot with a 13X8 APC prop
IS this ok ????? I adjusted I dle mix screw accordingly and everything works really good !!!! I am running WOT rich still for a good break in though.

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

You are in the ballpark on the RPM's. Idle speed will vary quit a bit depending on a few things. The tighter the valve clearance, the higher the nitro and the heavier the prop the slower the idle. On your high end. Even after break in your high speed should be set 300-400 rpm rich of peak.

David

rlmcnii

My Feedback: (3)

bzizzi,

When you fine tune this engine you will have to re-richen the LS adjustment, peak the HS to max rpm, re-lean the LS to leanest setting with a good, reliable transition, and then richen the HS for a 300(or so) rpm drop. The adjustments must be done in this order or you will just end up chasing needle settings forever. And, all adjustments to the HS are best done at full-throttle only.

Saitos are not difficult to tune, but it works best if you do each step in the proper order.

As Hobbsy mentioned in his previous post, it takes only about 40 minutes to get a Saito broken-in and tuned. It does not take gallons and gallons of fuel, although they do run better as they accumulate a little time.

Enjoy.

bzizzi

Well,everything was going great with the new Saito 82,It started right up and I flew two tanks through it on friday,but when I went to fly it again on Saturday it would not start no matter what I did,the glow plug gets nice and bright and it seems to be getting fuel ????
I have an electric starter coming next week from Tower and hopefully this will help,this is very frustrating for my first glow engine,I certainally hope they are all not like this ????What am I doing wrong ???? It ran perfect the day before !!!

XJet

If your engine has compression, fuel, air and glow then it will run.

Is the engine firing at all? (if not then it's probably *not* getting fuel through to the cylinder or your plug isn't glowing when actually fitted to the engine.

Sometimes 4-strokes like to be really wet (especially if the temperatures are low) before they'll respond well to hand-starting.

mike109

G'day I agree with Xjet - so long as you have compression, some fuel, some air and glow the engine should start. I started my Saito 100 yesterday after it had been sitting for about three months. It started (using an electric starter) within a couple of prop rotations and settled into a happy idle straight away. It is a nearly new engine and as about half an hour's running. This is my starting proceedure -

1. Check the tightness of the prop if the engine has not been run for a few weeks. If you ever hear a loud CLICK whch you are trying to start the engine and it has backfired, the prop is probably loose. DANGEROUS! Very common with plastic backed spinners which compress with time.

2. Fill the tank. I use a commercial fuel containing 10% nitro, 15% synthetic, 5% castor and the rest methanol. When I am filling the tank, I disconnect the pressure line from the muffler and when fuel pumps out of it, I switch off the pump and briefly reverse it to pump fuel back down the fuel tube to empty it.

3. Reconnect the pressure line.

4. Put a finger over the end of the muffler (don't do this if it is hot!) and turn the prop by hand anti clockwise until you can see fuel pumped up to the carby through the fuel tube. Usually takes 3 or 4 turns. An alternative is to gently blow on the end of the muffler which will also blow fuel to the carby from the pressure in the tank. The prop method is safer. DO NOT connect the glow driver at this stage.

5. With the plane secure so it can't move once it starts - connect the glow driver.

6. If I don't have an electric starter, I use a chicken stick for the next step. If you do have an electric starter, go to step 8. This assumes that you have set the prop so that when cranked anti clockwise (normal running direction, the prop is in the quarter to three position when the engine first comes onto compression.

7. Turn the prop clockwise until it is just "on compression". Use the chicken stick to do this. Now use the chicken stick to smartly rotate the prop further clockwise against the compression. If the engine is wet enough, it should fire and cause the prop to go anticlockwise and start. Repeat until started. For this to work, there must be an air/fuel mixture in the cylinder to allow the engine to fire. Not enough fuel and the engine will not fire. Too much and it may be damaged as fuel will not compress.

8. The better safer option is to use an electric starter. Rotate the prop clockwise until it comes "on compression". CONNECT THE GLOW DRIVER. Fit the starter to the engine then engage it. The engine should start. If it does not repeat the process of this step. If it still does not start, it may simply not yet have fuel at the carby or your glow driver may be not working properly. I find that a pack of 3 or 4 sub-C nicad cells wired in parallel works extremely well as a glow driver. Use as short cable is you can get away with but watch out for the prop. If you try to turn the engine with the starter and the starter simply skids on the prop or spinner, there may be too much fuel in the cylinder (flooded). If this is the case, disconnect the glow driver and see if you can turn the engine over. Don't force it. If the engine will not turn over by hand, you may have to remove the plug and blow the excess fuel out by turning the engine over with the starter.

The engine you have is a really excellent engine but it is more complex to use than a two stroke and will need more maintenance. But do not go in boots and all and adjust everything and dismantle things unless it is really necessary. The factory settings should be good enough to get it started and some adjustment to the high speed needle will be necessary once it has had a few minutes running. Don't try to get every last rev out of it. I run my engines between a quarter turn and even half a turn rich from their best running setting. This makes them last longer and I don't get "dead sticks". Leaves a nice smoke trail too. I usually leave the low speed setting alone until the engine has about half an hour's running. I then usually find that a little adjustment (about 1/8 of a turn at a time) will eventually lead to a good idle. A simple rule of thumb for the low speed needle is to have the engine idling then pinch the fuel line so that the engine stops. As it stops, it should increase its revs slightly before stopping. It it just stops, it is probably too lean (screw the low speed needle out a little) - if it revs up a lot, it is probably too rich (screw the low speed needle in a bit). Do this in small changes and let the engine settle between tries or better still, fly it between tries until you become comfortable with what you are doing. But don't do any of this until you can get it started easily on the factory settings.

Hope his helps a bit.

bzizzi

mike109,I checked the spinner and it was loose and it is plastic backed,the teeth that mesh with the motor flange where gone on the spinner backplate.I ordered a couple of aluminum backed spinners from Tower,hopefully this will take care of any more loose props !!!
What spinners do you guys use ???? As soon as I tightened prop nut the motor started right up,but after further investigation I noticed that the spinner was trashed and will not run until new one arrives. Thanks again !!!!