OS60SR Running problems
07-08-2003, 06:27 AM
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OS60SR Running problems
Hi There,
As new as can be. Have a RC boat with an OS60SR MAX installed (Way too big for boat but hey, who's complaining) The boat and I have been apart for a number of years and have now been re-aquanted.
I have de-installed all the equipment. I have repaired, resprayed and resurected the hull as best as possible. The OS60 was a sight. Cleaned, stripped off the carby, gently, soaked the needle valve and carby in Meths, and put the whole thing back together. Then all the bad memories returned. This was a dog to run before and now it's even worse.
I'm running 10% Nitro 'Buggy Fuel'. A Taipan 'Hot Long Reach' glow plug, new fuel tank, lines, filter and that'll do. I've read all the hints in these forums - 1 1/2- 2 turns of the bottom needle, 2 turns for the top and start with just a small opening on the Carby. Then I get all sorts of bad things. Fuel everywhere is the main problem. It seems that the thing is running extra extra lean????. it idles for a very short time and either dies or does the 'wake the neighbours' scream. When I put my finger over the carby to stall it, it kept running for about another 20 seconds. I was ready to pull the fuel line. Any help would be appreciated :-(
As new as can be. Have a RC boat with an OS60SR MAX installed (Way too big for boat but hey, who's complaining) The boat and I have been apart for a number of years and have now been re-aquanted.
I have de-installed all the equipment. I have repaired, resprayed and resurected the hull as best as possible. The OS60 was a sight. Cleaned, stripped off the carby, gently, soaked the needle valve and carby in Meths, and put the whole thing back together. Then all the bad memories returned. This was a dog to run before and now it's even worse.
I'm running 10% Nitro 'Buggy Fuel'. A Taipan 'Hot Long Reach' glow plug, new fuel tank, lines, filter and that'll do. I've read all the hints in these forums - 1 1/2- 2 turns of the bottom needle, 2 turns for the top and start with just a small opening on the Carby. Then I get all sorts of bad things. Fuel everywhere is the main problem. It seems that the thing is running extra extra lean????. it idles for a very short time and either dies or does the 'wake the neighbours' scream. When I put my finger over the carby to stall it, it kept running for about another 20 seconds. I was ready to pull the fuel line. Any help would be appreciated :-(
07-08-2003, 07:00 AM
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OS60SR Running problems
I have no idea at all. It is the original that was fitted I think. The engine ws rebuilt about 7 years ago, new piston, sleeve etc but the carby is the same.
07-08-2003, 07:42 AM
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OK. Its now official. There really is nothing exciting about extracting an oversized engine from an undersized boat. Phew. 7B for all that effort it better make a difference :-)
Also, there are no gaskets of any description when the carby meets the motor. Its a straight metal on metal connection? Does this seem right. The reason I ask is that although I had my finger over the carby it kept running. Does this sound like an air leak? Like I said, this engine hasn't been run for an eon and to be honest, like I said, was a slug of a thing before I left it.
Also, there are no gaskets of any description when the carby meets the motor. Its a straight metal on metal connection? Does this seem right. The reason I ask is that although I had my finger over the carby it kept running. Does this sound like an air leak? Like I said, this engine hasn't been run for an eon and to be honest, like I said, was a slug of a thing before I left it.
07-08-2003, 07:47 AM
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Another quick one. There is a little 'O' ring on the needle valve. Can these deteriorate? Is this maybe where the air leak is? Also, should I become one of those experts who give out help 'cause I am sure that I am answering my own question here :-)
07-08-2003, 07:55 AM
#7
AUSMPW....
....the low speed needle has to be backed way out....
....like this. See the o-ring on the carb flange....? It has to
be there....that's where the air leak is. The little o-ring on
the low speed needle has to afford some resistance to hold
the screw from vibrating in or out. It holds the screw from
turning.
Dave.
....like this. See the o-ring on the carb flange....? It has to
be there....that's where the air leak is. The little o-ring on
the low speed needle has to afford some resistance to hold
the screw from vibrating in or out. It holds the screw from
turning.
Dave.
07-08-2003, 08:29 AM
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Dave. You is THE man. Had me baffled for a little while but - See the o-ring on the carb flange - No was the answer. For some reason I had the little screw in mind and couldn't understand where you wanted mine :-) Then I saw it. The black 'O' ring on the carb flange. Man, I'm going back to PC Case Modding :-)
Anyway, I see that this would certainly effect its performance somewhat. Unfortunately it is the middle of the night here so I shall wait until morning. In the meantime, would you mind if I asked you a couple of what may seem like simple questions to those experienced?
1) I notice that the screw in the centre of the picture is well worn? What function does this perform as mine is unused by the look of it?
2) The screw assembly just hidden by your thumb. Is this just the minimum setting for the carb opening? Oooops. If you undo that all the way, the middle comes out :-) (Refer to my signature for an explanation of the event that just took place).
3) I read, or dreamt, somewhere that there was an upper and lower needle valve? Not happening with this model of carb perhaps? I see only one?
4) In short? 1 1/2 to 2 turns from full in with the needle and let her rip? RIP meaning start, not Rest In Peace. Of course, AFTER I get my overpriced 'O' ring :-)
And Dave, many thanks for your help so far, muchly appreciated.
Martin
Anyway, I see that this would certainly effect its performance somewhat. Unfortunately it is the middle of the night here so I shall wait until morning. In the meantime, would you mind if I asked you a couple of what may seem like simple questions to those experienced?
1) I notice that the screw in the centre of the picture is well worn? What function does this perform as mine is unused by the look of it?
2) The screw assembly just hidden by your thumb. Is this just the minimum setting for the carb opening? Oooops. If you undo that all the way, the middle comes out :-) (Refer to my signature for an explanation of the event that just took place).
3) I read, or dreamt, somewhere that there was an upper and lower needle valve? Not happening with this model of carb perhaps? I see only one?
4) In short? 1 1/2 to 2 turns from full in with the needle and let her rip? RIP meaning start, not Rest In Peace. Of course, AFTER I get my overpriced 'O' ring :-)
And Dave, many thanks for your help so far, muchly appreciated.
Martin
07-08-2003, 08:32 AM
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Oh my embarresment.
the low speed needle has to be backed way out........like this
That'll be that funny screw thing I just asked you about won't it :-)
Right, where is my neon case fan..........
the low speed needle has to be backed way out........like this
That'll be that funny screw thing I just asked you about won't it :-)
Right, where is my neon case fan..........
07-08-2003, 09:06 AM
#10
Martin....
1. That screw is the low speed, or idle screw. Set it
about one thread out from flush. I loaned that carb to
a guy awhile back
and he thought the
screw was a little loose....so he CA glued it in place.
(thanks alot) I had to soak it in acetone for almost
a week....but did finally get it out....that's why it looks
so thrashed.
2. That screw is the throttle stop adjustment....and
also holds the carb barrel in place....as you found out.
3. Upper and lower needle valve could have been
someones reference to the high speed, or main needle
valve (upper), and the low speed or idle needle (lower).
4. Give the main needle 2 1/2 to 3 turns out for starters.
By the way, that engine is not a dog....it's a very powerful
engine to be sure. When you get it running right you will
be suprised....it will really crank. I've been running those
motors for 30 years, and they are one of my all time
favorites.
If you can....run 15% Powermaster fuel, and a Fox Miracle
plug in it. In any case make sure the fuel blend contains
castor.
No problem, Martin....your welcome for the help....that's
what I do....
....any problems....just yell....
Dave.
about one thread out from flush. I loaned that carb to
a guy awhile back
and he thought thescrew was a little loose....so he CA glued it in place.
(thanks alot) I had to soak it in acetone for almost
a week....but did finally get it out....that's why it looks
so thrashed.
2. That screw is the throttle stop adjustment....and
also holds the carb barrel in place....as you found out.
3. Upper and lower needle valve could have been
someones reference to the high speed, or main needle
valve (upper), and the low speed or idle needle (lower).
4. Give the main needle 2 1/2 to 3 turns out for starters.
By the way, that engine is not a dog....it's a very powerful
engine to be sure. When you get it running right you will
be suprised....it will really crank. I've been running those
motors for 30 years, and they are one of my all time
favorites.
If you can....run 15% Powermaster fuel, and a Fox Miracle
plug in it. In any case make sure the fuel blend contains
castor.
No problem, Martin....your welcome for the help....that's
what I do....
....any problems....just yell....Dave.
07-09-2003, 01:20 AM
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Hi Dave,
The saga continues :-( I located an 'O' ring which is now neatly and securely in place. I re-fitted the carb, the motor and everything else into the boat and headed out to the car port (Only 12Volt source for the starter is the car). I primed and then fired it up which it then promptly went into scream mode and died. I tried a number of times and got nothing but fule everywhere. I stopped, counted to 10 :-), and then re-checked everything. The fuel lines, a replacement glow plug (Just to check) and the starter batteries are all charged and glowing. The excess fuel concerned me so I closed down the needle throttle to close and tried again. Another scream whilst I opened the needle valve and then fuel was pouring out of the exhaust. I thought I must have opened the needle valve far too much but when I returned the valve it only took 2 turns.
Anyway, I figured that I would ignore all the good advise I have been given and opened up the needle valve to just over 1 full turn. And guess what. It sorta idled but fuel was still pouring out of the exhaust. So I disconnected the pressure pipe from the tank thinking I had piped it up wrong but still out it came. Thought I woulod give it a rev up which then it promptly died. I then packed everything up, kicked the dog, threw a stick at the neighbours cat and swore at the neighbour. Made me feel just a little better :-)
So. Any other ideas? Is it possibly the carby has seen better days? Any responce, again, gleefully accepted. Oh and just to clear up something. That boat and motor is the bees knees as far as I am concerned. There is no financial problems with buying another boat, newer, more reliable and most cerainly faster, but I, like you, do like the 60 :-)
Many thanks,
Martin
The saga continues :-( I located an 'O' ring which is now neatly and securely in place. I re-fitted the carb, the motor and everything else into the boat and headed out to the car port (Only 12Volt source for the starter is the car). I primed and then fired it up which it then promptly went into scream mode and died. I tried a number of times and got nothing but fule everywhere. I stopped, counted to 10 :-), and then re-checked everything. The fuel lines, a replacement glow plug (Just to check) and the starter batteries are all charged and glowing. The excess fuel concerned me so I closed down the needle throttle to close and tried again. Another scream whilst I opened the needle valve and then fuel was pouring out of the exhaust. I thought I must have opened the needle valve far too much but when I returned the valve it only took 2 turns.
Anyway, I figured that I would ignore all the good advise I have been given and opened up the needle valve to just over 1 full turn. And guess what. It sorta idled but fuel was still pouring out of the exhaust. So I disconnected the pressure pipe from the tank thinking I had piped it up wrong but still out it came. Thought I woulod give it a rev up which then it promptly died. I then packed everything up, kicked the dog, threw a stick at the neighbours cat and swore at the neighbour. Made me feel just a little better :-)
So. Any other ideas? Is it possibly the carby has seen better days? Any responce, again, gleefully accepted. Oh and just to clear up something. That boat and motor is the bees knees as far as I am concerned. There is no financial problems with buying another boat, newer, more reliable and most cerainly faster, but I, like you, do like the 60 :-)
Many thanks,
Martin
07-09-2003, 02:46 AM
#12
Martin....
...you know, I should have the answer to that one, but I
don't. I have a guess....that is the nozzle must be busted
off or something, and fuel is gushing into the carb "willy-
nilly" no matter what you do to the needles.... Here's why.
A guy had a plane at the field awhile back that was doing
that....flooding like crazy....way beyond what I thought was possible. Start the motor up, and it would run for just a few seconds, and quit. Try to start it back up, and it was hydralic locked. Pick the plane up and dump about an ounce or so of
fuel out of the pipe. Start it back up....same exact thing....
flooded and locked....dump out more fuel.
I swear....I would say that it is physically impossible to
draw that much fuel into the motor in that short amount
of time. I had to leave the field early that day, and the
cause was not found. I just called the guy about the result
....but he has not touched it since.
Like I said, I think the nozzle must be busted off....and
fuel is pouring into the motor at a rate that is unheard of.
Even if you had the fuel lines reversed, the worst thing
that would happen is the pipe pressure would be blowing
into the feed line, and the fuel is coming out the vent line
to the carb. When that happens, the fuel level will quickly
go down past the level of the vent line....which is positioned
at the top of the tank, and the engine will quit running.
Here's a pic of the nozzle inside the carb....looking at it
from the bottom. I wish I had the answer to this problem,
but I don't....only a guess. It might be new carby time, but
that carb is no longer available, and when they were awhile
back, they were $65.00.
If anyone else has the answer....please chime in....
I still have my thinking cap on....
Dave.
don't. I have a guess....that is the nozzle must be busted
off or something, and fuel is gushing into the carb "willy-
nilly" no matter what you do to the needles.... Here's why.
A guy had a plane at the field awhile back that was doing
that....flooding like crazy....way beyond what I thought was possible. Start the motor up, and it would run for just a few seconds, and quit. Try to start it back up, and it was hydralic locked. Pick the plane up and dump about an ounce or so of
fuel out of the pipe. Start it back up....same exact thing....
flooded and locked....dump out more fuel.
I swear....I would say that it is physically impossible to
draw that much fuel into the motor in that short amount
of time. I had to leave the field early that day, and the
cause was not found. I just called the guy about the result
....but he has not touched it since.
Like I said, I think the nozzle must be busted off....and
fuel is pouring into the motor at a rate that is unheard of.
Even if you had the fuel lines reversed, the worst thing
that would happen is the pipe pressure would be blowing
into the feed line, and the fuel is coming out the vent line
to the carb. When that happens, the fuel level will quickly
go down past the level of the vent line....which is positioned
at the top of the tank, and the engine will quit running.
Here's a pic of the nozzle inside the carb....looking at it
from the bottom. I wish I had the answer to this problem,
but I don't....only a guess. It might be new carby time, but
that carb is no longer available, and when they were awhile
back, they were $65.00.
If anyone else has the answer....please chime in....
I still have my thinking cap on....
Dave.
07-09-2003, 03:56 AM
#13
OS60SR Running problems
Martin
Are you by chance thinking that the oil coming out of the exhaust shouldn't? Two stroke engines that are running properly will have oil coming out of the exhaust. If there is very little or none the engine is too lean. Boat engines usually need to run much richer than aircraft engines. Some of the oil carries some of the engine heat away too. If it is oil all over the inside of the hull from the exhaust just pipe it outside of the hull with a metal or silicone tube.
Are you by chance thinking that the oil coming out of the exhaust shouldn't? Two stroke engines that are running properly will have oil coming out of the exhaust. If there is very little or none the engine is too lean. Boat engines usually need to run much richer than aircraft engines. Some of the oil carries some of the engine heat away too. If it is oil all over the inside of the hull from the exhaust just pipe it outside of the hull with a metal or silicone tube.
07-09-2003, 03:58 AM
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Hi Dave,
Look. Many thanks for all your effort so far. It certainly has given me the desire to see this through. I must confess that after beating the dog I thought of changing hobbies :-)
It has become my mission now, to see this through to the bitter end. As a result I have located a couple of contacts that may be able to supply a replacement carby. I have also heard a whisper that there may be some OS Carbs that would suite. I shall investigate and see if I can at least locate a replacement.
It would make sense that the carby has done a runner as there was a requirement to use a little extra force to un-jam the needle after it had sat sooooo long without use. I am now going to extract the motor again :-)
I must also thank you for the photos as they are a great help. I wish that my carby was kept that clean !!!!!!
I will certainly keep you informed as to the progress. I am on the hunt for another carby as we speak.
Many thanks,
Martin
Look. Many thanks for all your effort so far. It certainly has given me the desire to see this through. I must confess that after beating the dog I thought of changing hobbies :-)
It has become my mission now, to see this through to the bitter end. As a result I have located a couple of contacts that may be able to supply a replacement carby. I have also heard a whisper that there may be some OS Carbs that would suite. I shall investigate and see if I can at least locate a replacement.
It would make sense that the carby has done a runner as there was a requirement to use a little extra force to un-jam the needle after it had sat sooooo long without use. I am now going to extract the motor again :-)
I must also thank you for the photos as they are a great help. I wish that my carby was kept that clean !!!!!!
I will certainly keep you informed as to the progress. I am on the hunt for another carby as we speak.
Many thanks,
Martin
07-09-2003, 04:05 AM
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OS60SR Running problems
MrMotor,
I do remember that there was always an 'overflow' of oil/fuel that would exit the back of the boat but this is way over the top. I used 5 Oz of fuel getting it started today and it ran for no more than 2 minutes all together. There was about 3 oz of fuel behind the exhaust. Also, the exhaust runs and exits inside the boat so the exhaust is actualy just below water line at the rear. Also, when I was trying to get it started, I could swear that fuel was coming out of the carby as well, slashing me in the face. (Lucky I have missed the smell of glow fuel so much :-)
Thanks for the suggestion but this is really an excessive amount and there is also the point about getting the thing to idle as long as I had the neddle almost closed, and still there was fuel out of the exhaust.
Thanks,
Martin
I do remember that there was always an 'overflow' of oil/fuel that would exit the back of the boat but this is way over the top. I used 5 Oz of fuel getting it started today and it ran for no more than 2 minutes all together. There was about 3 oz of fuel behind the exhaust. Also, the exhaust runs and exits inside the boat so the exhaust is actualy just below water line at the rear. Also, when I was trying to get it started, I could swear that fuel was coming out of the carby as well, slashing me in the face. (Lucky I have missed the smell of glow fuel so much :-)
Thanks for the suggestion but this is really an excessive amount and there is also the point about getting the thing to idle as long as I had the neddle almost closed, and still there was fuel out of the exhaust.
Thanks,
Martin
07-09-2003, 04:07 AM
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Jeez, sorry about this, will I ever stop talking :-)
For thise interested there are pictures that I have posted on this forum in an effort to identify it. I am sure it is an avenger mark II but couldn't say for certain. The motor is an aircraft motor with a 'shim'/'shroud' around the head that trandfers the heat by the water feed.
The link is :
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...64#post1154171]
For thise interested there are pictures that I have posted on this forum in an effort to identify it. I am sure it is an avenger mark II but couldn't say for certain. The motor is an aircraft motor with a 'shim'/'shroud' around the head that trandfers the heat by the water feed.
The link is :
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...64#post1154171]
07-09-2003, 04:37 AM
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OS60SR
Hi, the OS 5B carb is basically the same as the 7B. It will work in the 60FSR. I think you might have a few problems with your carb. I will give you a few extra things to check out.
#1: remove the whole needle valve assembly and look in the end where you removed the assembly. There should be a small brass hole. Make sure it is completely round and hasn't been damaged. If it is okay replace assembly.
#2: Put a piece of tubing on the fuel inlet and blow air from your mouth into the carb. If you cover both ends of the carb, as well as the threaded mounting holes to see if there is an air leak somewhere. Another thing to try is to turn the mixture screw all the way in and blow again into the tube to see if the needle valve is still working. Back off the needle valve until air starts to move.
#3: Make sure that the 2 mounting screws are secured and not leaking. One guy at my club had major problems and that's what it was.
Try these few things and let me know the results. Also, email me and I can send you the operating instructions for the 7B carb. I might have a few spare parts around as well. Good luck and all the best..... Bob
#1: remove the whole needle valve assembly and look in the end where you removed the assembly. There should be a small brass hole. Make sure it is completely round and hasn't been damaged. If it is okay replace assembly.
#2: Put a piece of tubing on the fuel inlet and blow air from your mouth into the carb. If you cover both ends of the carb, as well as the threaded mounting holes to see if there is an air leak somewhere. Another thing to try is to turn the mixture screw all the way in and blow again into the tube to see if the needle valve is still working. Back off the needle valve until air starts to move.
#3: Make sure that the 2 mounting screws are secured and not leaking. One guy at my club had major problems and that's what it was.
Try these few things and let me know the results. Also, email me and I can send you the operating instructions for the 7B carb. I might have a few spare parts around as well. Good luck and all the best..... Bob
07-09-2003, 04:42 AM
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Hey Dave, how come your 7B looks different than all of mine? Also, the 5B works perfectly in the motor. I bought one off of original OS repairman who lives in Ohio. He told me it was exactely the same as the 7B.
....
07-09-2003, 05:10 AM
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Okay, that makes sense. Mine also has a rotor set screw in it as well. I didn't see that on your motor. Hey, by the way, I bought a NIB 60FSR on Ebay last week for $91.00. As for the carb problem, I think he has a fuel inlet problem. I have a gut feeling that the needle valve is worn-out or the Rotor is worn out. He might try a little piece of tubing on the needle valve to stop a possible air leak there. I wish he would ship me the motor so I could fix it. I think I'm one of few people that still have parts for that motor. Anyways, it getting late and I have to be at work at 6:00 am. So we'll talk later.... Bob
07-09-2003, 05:38 AM
#23
Airbob....
Quote:
________________________________________________
"Okay, that makes sense. Mine also has a rotor set screw
in it as well. I didn't see that on your motor".
________________________________________________
Yo, Bob....mine still has the rotor guide screw in it....
....it's just a little shorter than yours, that's all....
( I don't think this carb will make it to the Smithsonian )
________________________________________________
"Okay, that makes sense. Mine also has a rotor set screw
in it as well. I didn't see that on your motor".
________________________________________________
Yo, Bob....mine still has the rotor guide screw in it....
....it's just a little shorter than yours, that's all....
( I don't think this carb will make it to the Smithsonian )
07-09-2003, 01:06 PM
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OS60SR Running problems
Well I return. Many thanks for all those taking part, what else would we be doing :-). OK. Here we go. Unfortunately I have been bogged down with much more interesting things like running my wife and child around, housework and other such exciting events :-)
Now, exit one more time, motor from boat......
OK. Point 1 (Bob) looks prety good from where I am sitting. Although it is rustic in colour, unlike some who's are all nice and shiny. Here, let me take some pics of the bits and pieces like Dave did. Maybe that'll help?
Martin
Now, exit one more time, motor from boat......
OK. Point 1 (Bob) looks prety good from where I am sitting. Although it is rustic in colour, unlike some who's are all nice and shiny. Here, let me take some pics of the bits and pieces like Dave did. Maybe that'll help?
Martin