RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Double f, I like to use engines on the lower end of the recommended range, that lets me be a pilot instead of just a throttle jockey. I got heck for this the very first time I flew a plane. I had a Kombat 40 with the 60" wing option and had an Enya .46 MKII. Everybody who looked at it said it wouldn't fly because the engine was too small. Well, somebody forgot to tell the engine, it flew just fine and it was 100 degree day in about 1991. That was my very first flying lesson.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

I think that's exactly why most scale plans designers don't recommend over powering their aircraft. They are supposed to fly in a scale like manner.

The Hughes H1 Racer was a record setter, not because it had enough power to hang on the prop & go vertical, but because it had streamlining inovations as well as big HP. (for it's day)

I doubt that the full sized H1 would have lifted off after a 100 roll & went up @ a 75* angle to 5,000', but it seems that todays modelers want that kind of unrealistic "non-scale" performance.

My 16# 89" PT-19 W/an FA150 on EI/glow fuel wouldn't do that, but neither was it underpowered. It would give somewhat "beyond scale" performance.

Even a 180/200 class 4-stroke would give "beyond scale" performance in a steamlined <18# Hughes H1.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Where exactly could I buy this 80" or even the 123" ws Hughes H-1B Racer?

One of my all time favourite airplanes along with Russian MIG-3.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Take it to 5000' and try that. A trainer with a 40 is on the edge of a stall the whole time, and a 46la is barely an improvement. Bad advise unless you ask about a persons altitude first.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

When I set up 40 size trainers, it's always an OS 55ax. It's not for the speed, it's nice to have the power to undo what the student just handed you. Then again, I do wait to the last moment to take it, I want the student to not give up and fight to the last. Students love it. Haven't lost a trainer:) The fuel usage is lower than any 40-60 engine I've ever come across, air time at training speeds is unreal.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

That too.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

A 180-200 4-stroke is hardly "on the lower end" of power on an 80" WS <18# monoplane. HP sells engines. TQ pulls big airframes into the air swinging larger higher pitched props.

I wonder? Which would be more affected by altitude, a 2-stroke or a 4-stroke of similar HP?

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

try www.kitcutters.com i think thats the where i found the 80" model. if you want to go bigger, im not sure where to tell you to go.
so, to get things right, what im looking for is either the radial, or a 1.8, 2.0 fs?

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

I set up my 1st trainer, a 96" WS Sr Telemaster, W/a Saito FA150. I soloed it W/O crashing & didn't even have a compatable "buddy box" @ the club. I had the instuctor take it "2 mistakes high" & hand me the radio.

I soon was doing everthing but the landiings & after a short while I managed to do that too. After a few minor mishaps that afforded the opportunity to remove some wing incidence & dihedrel, adding wing struts, I had it doing knife edge.

After I put it straight in @ WOT doing a split "S" W/O sifficient altitude about a year later, I put the same engine in an 89" WS Dynaflite PT-19. W/all the added scale features. It wieghed 16#.

I had a snap roll switch on my radio & pulling it & holding it for all but the briefest touch would result in 3 snap rolls in rapid succession. The FA150 on that big airframe W/exposed oleo struts, roll bar, etc, had all the power needed for BIG power loops & short roll takeoffs.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

You need to find out what the cowl diameter is.

This will fit into a 7 1/2" cowl.

http://www.advantagehobby.com/161303/SAIE200R3/

Over prop it a little (18 X 8) to allow it to unload in the air W/O over reving. I would bet you would get OVER 80 MPH in the H-1 Racer W/that combo.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Between 2 and 4 stoke I've had more issues with ambient air temperature than with altitude between them. My 2 strokes run great hot or cold, but my OS 4 strokes do not like the hot at all, especially the OS-120FS pumped engine.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

That's called doing it the hard way! If you had crashed first solo, do you wonder if you would be enjoying the sport today?

About 8 years ago, I had a student "freeze up" with a death grip on the transmitter while the plane was in nose down death roll. I had to grab over his hands to force the sticks where I wanted them. I't's been "Buddy Box" ever since, no stress.

No more, "Pass it to me", " No, I got it, I got it!,...... here, you take it!"

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

One thing about those smaller radials... I had one of the 3-cyl Saitos but I sold it. Compared to the engine weight those engines do not pack punch, they are LAZY!!

You need to severely over-engine your aircraft to get even a decent performance. You want a radial for scale looks and sound. 3-cyls do not have that much of the appearance because they lack cylinders but they sound very good. But sound only does not take the bird to the sky.

You are now looking for a radial in around 2 cu in? I for one would not even think of anything under 3 cu in if it was a radial. Problem in that category often is that the single row radials have too big outer diameter for most applications with the outside dia being around 220-250mm range. Smaller Saitos are around 185mm to less with the 90R3 that is the smallest but those tiny radials are too heavy for almost any bird. That beautiful Hughes will be a dog on the verge of stall all the time with that 200R3.
In order to increase fill volume you would need a 7-cyl radial. Technopower makes (or used to make) those but the Technos have a reputation for even less power than the Saitos. Other solution would be a 10 or 14 cyl twin row radial to keep the diameter down but I have never seen a commercial twin-row in the market. One-offs are there but rarely for sale.

80" WS can carry a lot of weight so a bigger radial is not bad at all. You dont need the Hughes for 3D, you need it to be able to fly fast (which is scale flying for that airplane) and sound good. And land decently. I am planning to buy the same kit and if I decide to put a glow radial in then 325R5 is the minimum I can think of.

Another idea for you... have you considered a rotary engine? I have another 82" WS warbird-vintage speedracer sort of that I modified from an ARF kit with drastic changes and I will equip that airplane most likely with a Sachs Dolmar KMS4 rotary engine. 57cc, 8hp@8000rpms. Overpowering? YESSSSS !! I love that. If it was a 3D-plane then that would be different but flying fast with no crazy sudden maneuvers then the fuselage and wings will be ok.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

WHAT KIND OF PLANE DO YOU WANT TO BUILD>> DO YOU FLY NOW GO TO THE LOCAL FLYING FIELD ASK THE MEN THERE

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Yes, the "hard way" but W/the radio I had there was no choice. (that I was aware of @ the time)

The point is, the Sr Telemaster is an excellent trainer. I had researched the options & the Sr Telemaser was described as an excellent choice to solo W/O crashing & it proved to be true. The large size was less fidgety & less prone to air turbulance & cross winds causing issues. Unfortunately, my Hitec Prism 7X PCM radio was not researced as well. I could have bought & installed a PPM Rx in the plane & switched the mode on the Tx, but I wasn't aware of that option nor was anyone @ the club.

I am a very fast learner & wanted something that I would not outgrow. The Sr telemaster, when set up @ 0* incidence & low dihedrel W/wing/stabilizer braces, (as I eventually did) is a pretty capable high wing "sport" plane albeit the flat bottom airfoil did limit the capabilities. I flew it for about 1 year before putting it in (quite spectacularly) while "hot dogging it".

The Saito FA150 was an even better choice as it is still whithin my range of desirable powerplants & has lots of power for planes up to & exceeding 16# & WS of 100".

I did have 1 close call when I did the inadvertant split "S" when I forgot about the aileron cross control when the plane was approaching. I froze as the plane rolled inverted & went straight down. My instuctor siad "I think you better give me that" & pulled the plane out from about 50" clipping the tops of the tall weeds as it finally responded to full up elevator. That was the only close call W/that plane while learning.

My 1st landing was accomplished as I was doing low passes & acidentally touched down. My instructor had me chop the throttle & the plane rolled out nice & straight. That was my 1st (inadvertant) solo flight.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

A Evolution 7-77 Radial is only 5mm larger in diameter (230mm) & is rated @ 5.3HP compared to 3.8HP the 325R5. It's a lot less $$$ too.

http://www.chiefaircraft.com/radio-c.../evo-e777.html

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...es/UMS7-77.jpg

All of this is a moot point if the cowl is too small to house these larger engines.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Surprisingly an ASP 400 (5-cyl) has the smallest outer diameter of the bigger radials with a good enough fill volume (220mm dia). I just dont know about the quality of ASP. Their carburetors are almost useless so a good OS or Saito carb would be mandatory purchase for that engine. It would also look good to equip the Hughes with a high pitch 4-blade prop eventhoug a fourblader is not "correct". That would allow the user to not spin the engine too fast. The lower the rpms in a radial the better it sounds when it needs to use the torque. Prop sound would tone down and aid the fuselage whistling also. Good place for some serious goosebumps :D

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

The ASP is not AAC & is a real boat anchor. I didn't suggest it because of the weight issue. The "quality" is hit or miss.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Holy cr@p!


I found an image of some 3-view drawings.

I was able to scale the WS using the 80" known value & the drawing was 28:1. (as it appeared on my screen)

Measuring the cowl where the pots would be located I came up W/about 12 1/4" maximum cowl diameter & about 9 1/2" opening in the front.

That means a Saito 450R3 would esily fit as would an Evolution E9-99 that is 10.2" in diameter.

http://www.evolutionengines.com/Prod...ProdID=EVOE999

I wouldn't hesitate to use the 450R3 W/a dummy engine for appearance & as a baffle for cooling.

A "scale" prop would be 31". Since it would not be practical to swing that big of a prop on either engine, a 24 X 12 would load the 450R3 down static, but it would still make about 30# of thrust, unloading in the air quite a bit on this sleek airframe. It could probably get up to 7000 in the air & hit over 80 MPH. That's a bit over "scale" for the 352 MPH full sized airspeed.

The 450R3 only gives up .5HP spec'ed but the under square 9-99 Evo has a longer stroke & would lug down better to swing a BIGGER prop.

The 9-99 also wieghs 7.7#, that's over 1 1/2# more than the 450R3.

Moving all the batteries & servos a far back as possible would probably balance out the CG W/O adding ballast so the plane would probably come in about 21# W/the 450R3 & 23ish W/the 9-99.

Either combo should have enough thrust to move it along pretty fast.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

SrTelemaster,

would you mind sharing those 3-view drawings that you found?

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Ask & you shall redceive.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...s-H1-Racer.jpg

Here's the site, the image on the site might appear larger.

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/...Hughes-H1.html

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Another reason I would prefer the 450R3 is that a 3 cylinder electronic ignition would be a lot easier to set up than a 9 Cylinder.

1 trigger magnet firing 3 hall sensors/ignition modules.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

There's something wrong W/those 3-view drawings as the 27' length is longer than the 31'9" WS.

I scaled the 27' length to the cowl diameter & I come up W/a 10.31" cowl diameter 1:4.76 scale. (31.75'/6.66') just enough to clear the 450R3.

That is still up to speculation.

We need either the actual Jim Pepino 80" Hughes H-1 cowl diameter of accurate 3-view drawings.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Thread starter has the kit. Maybe he can share the diameters. In my opinion the wingspan is not that narrow compared to length of the plane. Those pics have to be distorted or modified. Even still, thank you for sharing them SrTelemaster.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Mystery solved!

Those 3-views are correct, FOR THE 25' WS LANDPLANE WORLD SPEED RECORD H-1 that had a 25' wingspan. The 31'9" WS was for the transcontinental speed record version

So, is the Jim Pepino H-1 the 25' WS version or the 31'9" WS version?

In either case I would suspect that the cowl diameter is 10.31" which should be just enough for the 250mm (9.84") Saito 450R3, of perhaps the ASP400R5 if the added weight, slightly lower power output & sketchy quality reputation aren't a factor.

The ASP400R5 can be bought for $777. Just a bit more than 1/2 the price of the Saito.