does such an animal exist?
 

Hi all. I have what might be an easy question for someone. I'm getting ready to order an airplane kit to build this winter. I'm having trouble either understanding, or finding what it calls for, for an engine. It says it needs a 1.8 cu. In. Glow engine, I don't know it that means two or four stroke. If it means two stroke, I can't find one, except for buggy engines, and I'm not sure if they want me to put a f.s. in it. I emailed the company, but no respond. Any ideas? Thanks.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Look at Moki or Mark (new name) engines M180. Very good engines. There are several for sale here on RCU (2 stroke engines).

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

What is the plane?

A good 180 FS will fly a 20# plane if it is fairly aerodynamic but would struggle to go vertical very far. It would handle 15# quite handily for about anything you would want to do.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

A fourstroke would be very good, a Saito 1.80 or 2.20 or an OS 2.00, Enya makes a 1.80 two stroke, lots of chopices. Another fine choice is the SuperTigre 3250 about 1.99 cu in. and the least expensive.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

1.8 or 1.80 cu in is 30cc.
So you have the ASP 1.80 two stroke and a ASP 1.80 four stroke, along with a OS BGX-3500 2 stroke too, as well as a Super Tigre 3000 and 3250 2 stroke engine.
Moki or Mark engines have a 1.80 and a 2.10 engine. There are some MDS 2.10 engines around too. Sometimes the OPS 30cc engine pops up for sale too. Then there is the Saito 1.80 four stroke too as well as their 2.20 size engines. Plus there is the OS 2.00 four stroke engine as well.

There are also some gas spark ignition engines you could choose from too.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

if you want a glow 2S there are many MOKI/MARK 2.10 on here around 150 dollars brand new. they are heavy though at around 45-49 ounces A DLE 35 gas engine would be a better choice at 38-40 ounces i think. The Saito fg36 is a gas 4S that would be good also.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

This engine is for a kit cutters Hughes h-1b racer. Weight isn't given, but has an 80" wing span, and a 65 " body.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

I researched it but could only find 1 weight reference to an 80" Hughes H-1B Racer & the weight was 18#.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3.../HughsHR-1.jpghttp://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...ughesRacer.jpg

This plane IS VERY aerodynamic. In fact it pioneered several aerodynamics features such as retractable landing gear & flush riveting.

If you keep the wieght down by careful attention to build techneque it should fly great (in a scale like manner) W/a Saito FA180 4-stroke but it won't have unlimited vertical. I would look for something that would fit inside the cowl. The FA180 may/may not do that.

For an even more scale sound/appearance, a Saito 200R3 (3-cylinder 4-stroke radial) would probably fit within the cowl & sound awesome.

IMO, given the history/heritage of this aircraft a 4-stroke would be the only way to go, but then I'm not fond of 2-strokes, gas or glow.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

I ewas looking for a radial to put in this, but everything I saw was too big/ expensive. I'll look into that saito. It might be just the engine I'm looking for. Thanks for the info.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

I agree with your attention to weight.
The 80" Hughes H-1B Racer has a nice large 1285 sq. in. of wing area, so if you keep the engine weight under 45 oz. you wouldn't need to land hot and a long runway, a real nice flying plane.
The least expensive is way to go is used Mark 1.8 (claimed hp 4.1, I'm skeptical) and 41oz. without muffler.

I'm now thinking the Mintor 38 may be the best for weight (41 oz. incl muffler & ignition!), power (4.7 hp !) and economy (gasoline !) $375 Fair price, much less than a Evo 40. http://www.chiefaircraft.com/radio-c...rs/min-38.html

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

A Saito 200R3 weighs 48.5oz & will fit within a 7 1/2" cowl.

HP is 2.7 but that's HP that will swing a big prop (18 X 8) & pull a large airframe into the air. 18# in a streamlined airframe would be a piece of cake.

It ain't as cheap as a gas 2-stroke, but it will sound awesome & have more than enough power to fly this plane in a scale like manner.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

I looked at the big Saito 36 sparky ($750, Holy moola!) and I really like the idea of the sound and you will never beat the range of a four cycle gasoline engine, still the Saito would fall just short of the Moki 1.8. Tho they both swing close to the same prop size 18x8, 20X6 but the Moki will turn it a tad higher. Mintor on the other hand will swing a 19X10 or 20X8. Price-wise it's half the Saito and nearly 75% more power and less weight.

Edit: found a better price for the Saito, $709 @ Chief

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

The Saito is 5.079" from shaft centerline to valve cover. It may center up well in a radial cowl of about 10.25 in diameter without cutting. I cant find the height of the Mintor 38 engine and I do not know how large cowl of the 80'' Hughes H-1B Racer is.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Saito 325 R3..... $1809 wow, that's outa my league.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

I was talking about the Saito R2003, a 3 cylinder radial. It is mountable in a 7.3" cowl & it sells for $855 (shipped) @ Advantage Hobby.

The 325R5 is a 5 cylinder engine.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Why do you feel the need for so much HP in a scale airplane? A big one lunger gasser will shorten the life of the airframe substatially. This model was designed for a 180 Glow engine & although I could not forn this model specifiacally on Jim Pepino's model's specs, they usually reference 4-stroke power W/2-strokes of reduced displacement as secondary power.

An 18# scale airplane would fly just fine W/a 120 4-stroke. Brian Taylor's (18#) 83" Spifire is designed for a 120 4-stroke.

A 4 1/2 HP engine would be enough to hover this airplane. My Saito 300TTDP genersates over 30# of thrust @ 4.7HP. I doubt that the OP is looking to make this into a 3-D aircraft.

As for the FG36? An FA180 on spark will make about the same HP burning glow fuel W/less vibration & a lot less weight & fit into a 9" cowl. My FA150 on spark ignition burning 15% Cool power turns an 18 X 8 @ 7850 RPM & a 180 on spark W/the same fuel should best that by @ least 300 RPM maybe more W/a more aggressive spark advance..

I picked up an additional 300 RPM by increasing the spark advance on the FA150 from 28* to 35* BTC on E-85, but I never tried the same on glow fuel. I had similar results on my FA91s gaining 200 RPM by advancing the timing to 36* BTDC. There is potential for the FA180 sparky running glow fuel to turn that 18 X 8 above 8400 RPM.

Saito's gas conversions are over-priced by $50 or more compared to the glow counterpart.

The FA180 can be bought for $437. (shipped) Add about $120 for a C&H EI W/spark plug & you will have $547 total invested.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

OK, I found it. Looks like a good supplier.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

tlojak38, two stroke engines predated four stroke engines by forty or more years.  So references to size engines start with two stroke sizes.  More modern kit people will put both sizes on their drawings/boxes/ads.  But old designes do not.  So while all the others gave you good solid answers you might have been interested in why two stroke sizes are always first.

Good flying to you.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Two reasons. First, I like to use an engine rated not less than the most powerful recommended for a given model. An overage of .6 hp (4.1 vs 4.7) on a model this size is not excessive, there is always a throttle. Every time in the past that I went with the lesser or heavier recommended power plant, I was disappointed, even more apparent on a giant scale. I like the power to pull through maneuvers on shear power, not having to climb a mile to roller coaster through it. This is of course a matter personal preference and I have no clue what the OP's are.
Second, This is a Hughes H-1B RACER, not a Piper Cub, the thing should have a bit of heat. I'd hate to have a guy walk up and say, "So when are you going to open it up?"

There is the down side of the looks and sound with the one cylinder two cycle, again personal preference/priorities.

Dang, you certainly know your Saitos.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

This airplane is a "plans build", not a fiberglass/balsa ARF. As such it will most likely be lighter than most 80" WS planes of today. I had an 89" WS PT-19. It weighed 16# & flew great W/a Saito FA150 sparky on 15% glow fuel. It would pull through big loops on power & W/an 18 X 8 prop unloading in the air it cooked along quite well hitting nearly 70 MPH. That's 350 scale MPH.

IMO this plane would not be underpowered W/a 180 4 stroke & should perform even better than my PT-19 did W/an FA150. After all, it has retracts, is 9" less WS & is more streamlined.

Speaking of Piper cubs, ever see what a Saito FA180 does W/a big old 104" WS 1/4 scale Cub?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN1_-xmVLIo[/youtube]

That plane probably weighs about the same as the 80" Hughes H-1 racer & it has a LOT more drag. Imagine what that kind of power would do @ WOT on the much more streamlined Hughs H-1?

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Have a look @ the Jim Pepino planes on this site. http://www.scaleplansusa.com/

Most have the primary power recommendations as 4-strokes as do many plans built palnes. (like my Brian Taylor Spitfire).

Most of the 80"ish planes are recommending 1.2 FS. The 80 1/2" P-39 does recommend a 1.08 2 stroke but a 1.8 4-stroke would easily make as much power.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Here is yet another example of 4-strokes being specified as the primary power for "plans built" aircraft.

http://www.bhplans.com/BTPlansPg1.html

Note that all of the 80" + warbirds & the 76" P-47 are spec'ed for 1.2-1.5 cu in 4-stroke power.

I have the cowl & plans for the 83" Spitfire (MK-I-V) & I am wanting to build it from the Vic RC fiberglass fuselage. I have a Saito 200Ti 4-stroke inline 30* offset twin for power. It is spec'ed @ 3HP & on spark ignition W/glow fuel it should do a little better than that. The engine just fits inside the MK I-V cowl (inverted) W/about 1/4" to spare on the front cylinder rocker cover. :D

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3.../SAIE200TI.jpg

It's about the closest thing I've found to a Merlin "sound".

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBickqgN_fM[/youtube]

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

I had an old Pica P-51 1/5 scale (not the newer 1/6 scale) 89" wing, about 30 Lbs if I recall correctly. The kit called for a 2.10 glow. Not using globs of glue and keeping things as light as I could without re-engineering, the thing was a slow, heavy pig, sold it . I had a Sundowner 80" (only about 922" of wing area, no flaps) with the same engine(recommended), fast at about 120 mph, yet looked slow. It had to land HOT or fall out of the air. (no head wind= run off the end of runway) sold it before it got killed. These are some of the examples I can think of of the top of my head that recommended that power level to wing size.

If I built the Hughes H-1B, I wouldn't hesitate to use the recommended engine or near equivalent , the engine the designer had in mind was probably the old Moki 1.8. I would expect it would do about 110 mph with the Moki or 125 mph or so with Mintor 38. If that's faster than someone is comfortable with of unsure of their build skills, by all means use less engine. As for scale speed, Ill take wow factor any time. Heck my WM P-51's, 46 size Chinese ARF must be over Mach scale with the YS 115 or reduction drive K&B 1.00 DF engine.

OK , OK , I know I'm a speed freak, different strokes for different folks.
By the way that Cub's not bad.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Typically Jim Pepino recommends 4-stroke power for a plane of this size/type so the recommended is engine is probably a 1.8 4 -stroke. Go back & check out my links & you will find that more often than not this is the case for 80" class scale plans built monoplanes.

Scale plans designers are typically looking for scale like performance. 110 MPH would be 660 scale MPH.

Even a Saito FA180 would probably pull that ship @ 80 MPH or more W/an 18 X 8. That's 480 scale MPH & vertical would probably be pretty good too. Not unlimited, but from a full throttle level flight it would still be pretty impressive.

What it all boils down to is what the OP has in mind. If the plane finishes out @ 18# or less, a GOOD strong 4-stroke 180 single or 200 multi cylinder would be a great performer if the OP isn't looking for hovering or unlimited vertical.

Your example of a 30# P-51 would need @ least 5 1/2 to 6 HP. Even then a 30# plane trying to fly on the 89" wing would definately be a pig.

RE: does such an animal exist?
 

Here's what a 25HP 4-stroke radial does in a 123# Hughes H1.

Go directly to Youtube, turn up the volume & watch it on full screen. It gives me goosebumps.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQQHH7a4Plg&feature=related[/youtube]