|
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
Jess:
I have Amazing Grace played by the Scottish National Pipe and Drum Corps. It is on a CD with quite a few other bagpipe favorites. If you would like, I can convert it to mp3 and send you a copy. You can then use your computer for the background music at your funeral. Haw. Bill. |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
ORIGINAL: jessiej ORIGINAL: William Robison Chuck: I thought Jess' post was a good insertion of humor into a thread that had gotten too serious. Sorry you didn't see it. Bill. This is a source of personal concern to me, however. I have always wished for a military funeral with a piper playing "Amazing Grace". I had felt that anyone who played the pipes would as a matter of necessity, if not survival, have a sense of humor. If this is not true, and coupled with the fact that I can no longer fit in my dress blues it would seem that I must live forever. A grim prospect in a humorless world. A bemused jess And a note to Dave, I can play Amazing Grace, which is a good thing, because you definitely DO NOT WANT to hear me sing it :D And here's a quiz to all, why do pipers walk while they are playing? |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
Chuck:
...why do pipers walk while they are playing? Haw. Bill. |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
How could any post in these fora be hurtfull to anyone? Do you feel Downunder expects in some way to profit from his experiment? This is not a flame at downunder , just a response to jessiej's question. P.S. I'm psychic so to answer your next question , I do want to know the results. ;). |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
ORIGINAL: William Robison Chuck: ...why do pipers walk while they are playing? |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
...why do pipers walk while they are playing? |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
Chuck:
...many of us wear ear plugs. Bill. |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave ...why do pipers walk while they are playing? |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
Bill,
For cryin out loud don't dump this thread we are having a little fun here (more than any current RCU threads I can think of for some time). Sure a lot of diffrent viewpoints out there, and I enjoy everyone, even if I disagree. |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
[And here's a quiz to all, why do pipers walk while they are playing? ]
To my shame Chuck (me being half Scott), I must confess ignorance on this one. I can't even come up with a smartass guess:eek: jess |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
Gizmo:
I have no objection at all to the thread becoming humorous. I object when it becomes contentious, and that's where it was when I commented on closing it. Bill. |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
The answer is because it's harder to hit a moving target. :D
|
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
Hi Bill,
I understand, it's amazing (grace?) how upsetting this is to some ...........if I pay attention I might learn something? If not no harm, no foul. |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
Chuck:
Having expended many moldy grapefruit and rotten tomatos attempting to eliminate the awful racket disturbing me all the way down to my soul, my experience forces me to agree. A moving piper is hard to hit. So I usually cheat. I'll select a medium to large "Tattoo" event. Then there are so many that if you miss one the projectile continues and hits the next one. Very soul satisfying. Haw. Bill. |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
....back on topic for a moment....:eek: ORIGINAL: downunder You might find this interesting though.. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~fiorimet/Index.htm side bar "Running in" and then the third para. Start the engine from rich and turn the needle slowly in, easy into resonance, but keep relatively rich, and release quickly. Air running for the first flights should be slightly four stroking. racing engine manufacturer is saying that his super high strung engines...."should be run in the air....with the engine fourstroking for the first flights". Hmmmmmm....that's creates a dilemma for the "four stroking your engine will ruin it crowd". Find a prop that runs between 28500 and 29500 on the ground. Try to keep ground running to a minimum, peak rpm less than 3 seconds, then immediately rich again. Try to get the engine in resonance by turning the needle from rich all the time. Always start the cold engine with a needle setting 1/2 or 1 turn rich! "ruined"....what a shame. :D Be aware of the fact that wear highly coincides with high temperatures and these don't happen in the air normally, but during ground running at peak power with flying props. So: Try to start your engine in competition as late as possible, try to turn the needle to its right setting just before release and keep it as rich as possible until that moment with high temperatures". The doomsday folks are saying that wear and damage happens from running the engine too rich. (cold) It looks like we have another conflict here, huh ? I think I will have to agree with the man, because as a mechanic myself I know that friction and wear comes from heat....not cold....or as Rossi calls it.... ....greasy. (running rich) ;) FBD. :D |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
Read this again, Dave.
ORIGINAL: Fuelman After about three tanks idling and three tanks on the other one running around and slightly leaning each run, we did a pinch check. Guess what?- the one that sat idling the pinch was nearly gone, the one run around it was nice and tight. This is why car engines are only warrantied for 30 days, not 2 or 3 years or even 5 years like one plane engine manufacturer. Guys that break in a car engine the ABC way, usually are in disbelief until they realize that their engine is lasting 10 gallons of fuel instead of 2,3 or 4 gallons between rebuilds. I once talked to the exclusive US importer of a very high quality, high performance (exceptionally expensive) car engine line from Europe, asking the owner why he recommended such an excessively rich break-in, telling him that the stated method will prematurely wear the engines out. He told me laughing "Thats why these engines carry no warranty, for every engine I sell, I will sell two piston / sleeve/ rod sets" and further went on to say "the car crowd has been conditioned to wear these things out so the parts business is real good,....If we told them how to break-in and run these things right, I'd be losing a lot of money" ORIGINAL: FBD ...Wait a minute....this manufacturer says that it's a "fact that wear highly coincides with high temperatures". The doomsday folks are saying that wear and damage happens from running the engine too rich. How does '10 gallons, after an ABC type break-in, instead of 2, 3, or 4' go in the same paragraph with your (and Profi's) 'high wear coincides with high temperatures'??? Excessively high temperatures - that is for sure. But more wear at the normal running temperature, than at a lower, high friction four-cycling??? Someone here is missing the point and I am not him! |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
Not hard to miss the point when this entire thread is pointless other than Brian sharing his test results with us. I suspect he'll come to the same conclusion I have and that is that, as someone stated above, just run the engine and use a little common sense.
|
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
The engine part of this thread has been entertaining if not enlightening.
I preferred the Pipe discussion. There is actually nothing to compare with the sound of a full Pipe and Drum Scottish military marching band. The skirl of the pipes, the beat of the drums, the swinging of the sporran and the Drum Major twirling his baton. Some people may remember in the second world war that the Japanese troops referred to the Scottish troops "As the women from hell" There was very good reason for that. Some people may remember in slightly more recent times when the Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders, led by Major Mike Hoare and accompanied by the pipes marched into Crater in the middle east and cleared the armed riff raff out of there without firing a shot. Ed S P.S. Just a little relief from the endless, endless, engine break in talk! |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
DarZeelon....
ORIGINAL: Fuelman After about three tanks idling and three tanks on the other one running around and slightly leaning each run, we did a pinch check. Guess what?- the one that sat idling the pinch was nearly gone, the one run around it was nice and tight as are the ABC racing aero-engines....and have different needs for the care and feeding of them. What does idling a car engine for 3 tanks have to do with anything ? Did the manual say it was OK to do that ? I don't think so. You are offering this as proof of what ? How does '10 gallons, after an ABC type break-in, instead of 2, 3, or 4' go in the same paragraph with your (and Profi's) 'high wear coincides with high temperatures'??? with high temps as in a lean/hot high temp condition....not normal temp running coditions....because as we all know, normal running conditions don't produce high wear conditions. If you read the text on this site, the manufacturer wants the engines running "as rich as possible"....and wants the engines "slightly four-stroking" for the initial flights. The K&B manufacture site states that the engines should be launched in a four cycle mode. This man says an engine will last 10 gallons with a normal break-in ? (yeah right) Excessively high temperatures - that is for sure. But more wear at the normal running temperature, than at a lower, high friction four-cycling??? (four stroking) mode is false....plain and simple. Your statements to the newbee's "if you ran your engine rich, it may already be ruined"....is false. Once again....I do not, or have ever recommended that a modeler not follow the manufactures break-in recommendation...although you have. I have never stated that anyone should run their ABC engines for long periods of time, or any amount of time for that matter in a four stroke fashion. I do not run my engines that way, in fact I probably run my Sport ABC engines harder than most during break-in.... because I use the technique used for racing engines....peaked out max for a few seconds, then back to richened condition for about 15 seconds....then back to peak to a few seconds. Three runs of about 6-7 minutes each is all I give them. The peak runs get a few seconds longer each tank....up to about 20 seconds at the end. This method is quite similar to the HP racing engine site. I never let the engine run leaner than peak RPM, in fact....I don't take my fingers off the high speed needle during peak runs....I'm constantly opening the needle and closing it....making sure the engine is at the full peak....and at the same time, as rich as it will run and still maintain full peak. What I have said, is....four stroking wont hurt the sport ABC engine during the break-in period. Your doomsday threads say the opposite. You have argued to OS Engines, and Jett engines that their procedures are incorrect. I say their procedures are just fine. I say the correct way to break-in an ABC sport engine is too start it up and run it. Use the correct fuel recommended bt the manufacturer....an as long as you don't over heat it....it will be fine. ;) FBD. :D |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave The K&B manufacture site states that the engines should be launched in a four cycle mode. AIRBORNE BREAK-IN 1> BREAK-IN running should be done with the recommended propeller at a slightly rich setting. You want the engine to be at running operating temperatures. The needle valve should be set at a point just into this range from a four cycle setting. Fly the plane at maximum throttle for 2 minutes, then throttle back to half throttle for approximately 30 seconds. Repeat this sequence until approximately 20 minutes of accumulated running time has been obtained... |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
ORIGINAL: jaka Hi! Did you honestly belive that running an ABC engine a little rich would destoy it...???[8D] Nothing could be further from the truth! You can run any two or fourtsroke as rich as you like without destroying anything. The only thing destroying our engines is heat (running too lean, wrong compression, wrong glowplug, too much nitro) and dirt. Nothing else! Our engines can tolerate much... we don't have to be soo finicky about how rich we run them as long as we don't run them too lean! Regards! Jan Karlsson Sweden FBD. :D |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
1 Attachment(s)
Here's ol' FBD...."not following the manufactures instructions". (again :) )
....over 16 grand on the third run....:eek: |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
Idunno about everyone, but the only way I really know of to toast a good ABC/AAC engine is to fly it lean. Getting it lean/hot will ruin the seal quickly. Launching an engine 500-1000 rpm down is pretty common. Sometimes this causes the engine to dribble down off of the pipe and sound very rich. But thats normal.
The use of bubble-free fuel tanks for racing saved a bunch of us quite a bit of $$ in piston/liner sets and glow plugs, since the engines didnt go super lean the last lap as the tank ran dry. |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
Chuck....the K&B site has some conflicting and misinformation on it. [:o]
__________________________________________________ _____________ SLOPPY RICH MIXTURE running is characterized by a very slow, irregular, sputtering exhaust sound. The exhaust gas will be very smoky and contain many droplets of oil. NEVER RUN AN ABC ENGINE AT THIS SETTING. The cylinder is not able to heat properly and the fit will be ruined in a short time. RICH MIXTURE running is characterized by a slower, sometimes irregular, sputtering exhaust sound. The exhaust gas will be smoky and probably contain small droplets of oil. NEVER RUN AN ABC ENGINE AT THIS SETTING. The cylinder is not able to heat properly and the fit will be ruined in a short time. FOUR CYCLING or SLIGHTLY RICH running is a rich type setting, but it is fast enough to pull the airplane. This is the setting you normally look for before launching the airplane because the engine will run leaner when airborne. __________________________________________________ _____________ The author says not too run the engine sloppy rich in para 1. Para 2. says not to run it at a rich mixture. Para 3. says four cycling "is a rich type setting", and one would "look for this setting before launching the airplane". The HP engine site recommended launching the engine in a "slight four-cycle mode" as well for the initial break-in flights. Where does either manufacturer say that running the engine....sport or racing, in a four-cycle mode....will ruin the engine ? They don't do they ? Yet Dar Zellon will claim that four-cycling an ABC engine will ruin it to his dying breath. I contend....that is a false theory. Brian's experiment is proving it as well. ;) 45 minutes of straight 4-cycling with out a sign of damage or wear !!! FBD. :D |
RE: ABC...wrong break in?
Dave,
Original: downunder On the piston, the only evidence of any wear was the beginnings of the ring you usually see close to the crown. Most of this was on the transfer side of the piston with only a hint of it beginning on the exhaust side. The photo shows the transfer side. There was no detectable play in the wrist-pin bosses in the piston. The liner was starting to show signs of smoothing out because the cross hatching was getting faint. One area between the front transfer and the boost port had taken on a very high polish like a mirror. Well, you can define 'wear' any way you like... You argue that a rich, four-cycling break-in will not harm any engine, yet you use the technique from my thread to do the break-in for your own tapered-bore engines. This is because despite of what you write here, you know that my break-in thread, which is based on George Aldrich and other past and present model engine paragons, as well as on my own experience, is nothing but correct. |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:31 PM. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.