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Help!
I have picked the finest minds on RC-Universe but still have an Enay .60 4C that will not run.
I have checked and rechecked the timing marks and they are dead on per instructions one of our memebers sent me from the MRC website. I have made some self inflicted mistakes along the way but I think they are all behind me now. The only thing the engine will do is run backwards for a second or two if I literally flood it. I believe I have the cams in the correct orientation and at the correct timing but... I am missing something. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! JLK |
RE: Help!
I'm not a Enya man but some of the four strokes have two cams. You can get them swapped side for side and cause prablems
Enjoy, Jim |
RE: Help!
Jim,
You're right. The Enya has two separate cams but they overlap so the gear on one is out further than the other. Right now I have the one on top of the other (I hesitate to use the term overlap here) just as the .pdf file shows but I have intentionally reversed this and still won't run... I'm really scratching my head on this. Thanks for the advice! JLK |
RE: Help!
John:
Help? You might look in the Yellow Pages under "Psychiatrist." Haw. Can you post pictures (or email) of the gear train showing the timing marks as you have them? Bill. |
RE: Help!
Bill,
I'll try to take a picture and post or email it. I don't know that I'll have much luck though since the parts are steel, much like a crankshaft is, and you know how dark they get. I'll post if I can. Thanks! JLK |
RE: Help!
1 Attachment(s)
Bill,
Here's the best I can do. I even tried to use whiteout but my cheap digital camera won't focus close enough to do us any good. Now if I could use my Dad's Leica M3 with 35mm lense that I inherited... JLK |
RE: Help!
1 Attachment(s)
John:
Give me reasonably high resolution shots, I can make my own close-ups. Looks like they should be near enough to run. There must be some piddly thing we are both not thinking of. Regards the lobe difference you mentioned. The up and down ramps generally look the same, but the down ramp on the exhaust lobe (red arrow, first picture) is obviously not the same as the up ramp. If this is wear, I've never seen a model cam worn this badly, or this evenly, but I've seen similar wear in auto cams, but only on one or maybe two lobes. the engine run goes to pot and... Come to think of it... Your speaking of the Leica M3 makes me jealous. Third picture is what I have to put up with to get a good shot. Bill. |
RE: Help!
John:
Just for the halibut, switch the cams side for side and see what happens. Bill. |
RE: Help!
Bill,
It's the crumby pictures I posted. Both cams are symmetrical and have nothing other than the normal surface "polishing" type wear. The coarseness of the cam gear surfaces was exaggerated as well. The M3 was one of my Dad's pride and joys. He bought it in Germany in 1963. Has the 35mm, 55mm and 125mm lenses as well. I use only rarely. Who know what's on the roll of film in it now! I had a Pentax that I was always bragging about. One Spring day when the azaleas were blooming in Texas he said "OK, get your camera and take the best picture you can and I'll do the same. We'll compare when they are developed." Side by side there was no comparison. The lenses on that camera a really something! JLK |
RE: Help!
Bill,
I've already swapped them. Wouldn't run... JLK |
RE: Help!
John, can you post the page of the manual with the timing illustration on it? I have the 1.20, but this looks different.
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RE: Help!
I'm wondering if IA has something to do with the not starting factor.
Glow fuel doesn't like cold weather. Enjoy, Jim |
RE: Help!
Bill,
I can't attach the .pdf file for Tim to look at. What am I doing wrong? JLK |
RE: Help!
Jim,
You know the temp could be a contributing factor. Although the other day when I kept disassembling, reassembling, trying to run it the outside temp was in the low 50's and the motor and fuel were in a heated garage until I would push it out the back door and then immediately try to start it. The garage temp was in the mid 60's. JLK |
RE: Help!
1 Attachment(s)
tim:
Here is the page I sent to John, I got it from the Altech/MRC site. It's a bother to find, but if you want the URL I suppose I could go get it again. The reason I kept a copy because it's so hard to find. Bill. |
RE: Help!
I don't think the PM system will let you attach a PDF?
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RE: Help!
1 Attachment(s)
John, is your timing illustration the same as this?
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RE: Help!
John:
You can't attach a .pdf file, it has to be converted to a regular graphic format. the one I posted above is a JPEG file. ------------------------------- Tim: Enya has three different set-up arrangements - your 120 is different from the mid-size John has. Bill. |
RE: Help!
Bill, is the exhaust lobe on your drawing supposed to be a hidden view like mine? Maybe the exhaust cam needs to go end for end?
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RE: Help!
1 Attachment(s)
Tim:
You will note the page I posted has no illustration for the 1.20 engine. the the best of the information at hand, the 1.20 is the only one that has the two lobes between the gears, the smaller engines both have the gears in front of the lobes. Here's the pertinent section of your picture, enlarged and (I think) easier to see/understand. Bill. |
RE: Help!
Tim:
I notice also that your sheet gives 20-60-60-20 timing on the 1.20 while my sheet gives that for all BUT the 1.20, and the 1.20 at 30-70-70-30. And that's a lot hotter than the 20-60 timing. ---------------------------------- John: Do you have any way to degree the can and valves/ Bill. |
RE: Help!
According to the diagrams and pictures, he has the exhaust cam on backwards and in the wrong place with the intake cam.
He has the intake on top. The intake goes on the bottom with the lobe out. The exhaust goes on top with the lobe in? |
RE: Help!
Bill,
I don't have a way to measure the degrees. JLK |
RE: Help!
1 Attachment(s)
John, the only difference between the illustration Bill provided and what you have in your picture, is the driven gear on the exhaust cam should be behind the driven gear on the intake cam. That is if I'm seeing it right.
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RE: Help!
I have an NIB (though several years old) Enya 60 four stroke--if you don't get your problem sorted out, PM me and I will open mine up and check the cams and report back.
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RE: Help!
Tim:
Going back and looking at the two pictures I included in post seven, the left one looks like he has the inlet cam gear on top, the center picture shows the exhaust cam gear on top. Both with the gears in front of the lobes. --------------------------------- John: If it comes to that, you can send me the engine, I'll degree the cams and get them as close as possible to the 20-60-60-20 they call for. Or maybe Jim Oliver will take pity on all of us and take some pictures of his. Bill. |
RE: Help!
Pattern, go ahead and do it right here this is interesting even though it is frustrating for JLK, Jim and I talked about this on the phone a couple of years ago. I got the cams flip flopped on my .46 MKII and it would run but 1,000 rpm lower than normal and it blew a lot of fuel out of the carb. Having the one gear in front of the other the right way matters but I could never figure out why.
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RE: Help!
Tim,
Nice catch on the gears but... It is like the drawing you posted. I think Bill somehow "flipped" my photo while he was enhancing it. I had to look twice and run out to the garage just now (it's 4:45AM!) to double check. I'm off to the electric fly at the Unidome in Cedar Falls. Be back late afternoon. Thanks everyone! JLK |
RE: Help!
Pattern Student,
If you do take your engine apart be careful when you pull the cam box off the back of the engine. You could pull the cams off with it (don't ask me how I know this [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]). First take the thinner flat plate off the back. Then you'll see 3 holes...2 on top one on the bottom. The one on the bottom is the end of the cam drive coming thru from the crank. The two on top are the cams themselves. When you start to pull the box off take a small wooden dowel or wooden pencil point and keep pushing those two cam ends back into the box. This will keep them from coming off as you remove it. Good luck! JLK |
RE: Help!
John,
I will only open the engine if you still need the info---please advise. Thanks, Jim |
RE: Help!
Jim,
I just got back from the E-Fly. Hold off on taking your new motor apart. Thanks for the offer! JLK |
RE: Help!
John, did you ever get that Enya running?
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RE: Help!
Tim (and others):
The Enya is now here. There are two other model engines in line ahead of it, but if I can steal enough time from "Real" work I should get on it within a week or ten days. I'll post results of inspection, and what I do to make it run. I will admit I did a quick teardown and inspection, John had the cams timed correctly. The only fault I found in the quick check was one valve keeper out of place, but that would not have kept it from running. Bill. |
RE: Help!
ORIGINAL: jlkonn Bill, It's the crumby pictures I posted. Both cams are symmetrical and have nothing other than the normal surface "polishing" type wear. The coarseness of the cam gear surfaces was exaggerated as well. The M3 was one of my Dad's pride and joys. He bought it in Germany in 1963. Has the 35mm, 55mm and 125mm lenses as well. I use only rarely. Who know what's on the roll of film in it now! I had a Pentax that I was always bragging about. One Spring day when the azaleas were blooming in Texas he said "OK, get your camera and take the best picture you can and I'll do the same. We'll compare when they are developed." Side by side there was no comparison. The lenses on that camera a really something! JLK --------------- Buy a Zeiss lens for your Pentax and watch the difference disappear. |
RE: Help!
My Enya 80-4C was extremely difficult to get started in cold weather. The 80-4C is a bored out 60-4C like the posters. That could very well be the problem.
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RE: Help!
Tim,
Thanks for your continued interest in the Enya. As Bill has mentioned I sent it to the Master...I just couldn't figure out why it wouldn't run. I know he will. Ed, You're right about the Zeiss lense! :) I also have my Dad's Carl Zeiss binoculars. They are crisp and clear as well! Thanks everyone! JLK |
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