BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Well, JT the red trim is actually red Rustoleum spray paint. I used the plastic trim tape you can get at your local automotive paint supplier. Taped her off, Kind of roughen up the monocote with some 00 steel wool, wiped her down with some denatured alcohol and started spraying. Came out looking pretty good!! After drying a couple of days that stuff is fuel proof too!! Most the models on the Early RC Website were done the same way. Even got best finish award with the Sr Falcon at one meet. Yep it was covered with White Ultracoat and all trim was Rustoleum!!!!Oh I still tissue and silk and dope too!!

Bob Harris

JT Hammer

Billmod - I really like the color scheme on your Dad's Champ. Simple elegance! That would look sharp in the colors I am considering for mine, cream and real red, or cream and burgundy. Is copying another's idea for trim allowable? Anyway, I did a bit more today by shaping the fillets where the fin sits on the stab. This job went pretty quickly using the instructions provided - just use scrap cheater fillers that duplicate the stab and fin (spot glued temporarily), and then sand like crazy with 60 grit paper, then 150. The photos show the result and the scrap cheater parts.

JT

JT Hammer

Oh ya, - here's a photo of the parts that are left - doesn't look like too many after the fuselage is done! However they have equate to a wing and tailfeathers. We'll soon find out! What do I do when I'm waiting for glue to dry? Of course I fly covert missions with my micro helis. It's a great life. isn't it!

JT

JT Hammer

Well Bob, you rascal, spraying on top of film! I must admit it looks awfully good. I tried that once on a model I built years ago (The Square Shooter), but much of it vibrated off. I think I didn't prepare it well enough before spraying, and to be honest, don't remember if I used steel wool or sandpaper beforehand. Have you flown that Champ much since finishing it, to know how this method stands up to vibration? You said you used 'Rustoleum' paint - was that just from the shaker can? We have that brand up here as well. There is also a knack for spraying with the plain old shaker cans (which I am still working on). Do you do it in one go? That is using light misting sprays as you circle the i.e.wing, and then stop at the magical moment just before runs start! Is pulling off that tape a bit tricky? On film it must stick like crazy! Well, you got me thinking again on how to finish!

JT

billmod12

My Feedback: (1)

J T, My dad now 82 would be honored for you to use that paint scheme. Like he says, if the truth were known it probably came from something he saw at the airport back in the 40s/50s. I am like you, I like cream and anything on 50s models. My 42 inch champ is going to be colored just like dads. If you went to an airport in the early 50s most everything from the factories was some darker color and cream. For example, pics from our local airport in 1954, I know, a little off topic but everybody likes pictures of old airplanes .

billmod12

My Feedback: (1)

Duh! I forgot the pictures!

N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

I have to respectfully disagree just a bit with Spaceworm regarding the sizing of those nylon bolts. I do agree that nylon bolts would be a better option than rubber bands, but I would respectfully recommend that 1 4-40 or a 6-32 are too small, even for this size plane. I would recommend that you use 8-32 or 10-24 nylon bolts... the 8-32's are the right size but 32TPI is a very fine thread for a nylon bolt, and you take a chance on cross threading it at installation. The 10-24 is a little bit of overkill but the 24 TPI thread (as opposed to a 10-32 thread) are easier to find at the home center and easier to thread in. Perhaps a single 10-24 would be the best compromise.

For any nylon bolt to work properly, that is, shear away during a rough time, resist the urge to use washers. The head of the nylon screw needs a sharp edge to help it to shear away. I would recommend a tight-fitting bolt plate glued to the wing, and keep it a close fit to the diameter of the 10-24 bolt (which is .190, or a shade over 3/16"). During a rough impact, the sharp edge of the bolt plate directly beneath the head of the nylon bolt will make it shear more easily. If you use a washer, it may not shear so easily.

Just my $.02, for what it's worth,

Bob

spaceworm

[8D]

Good points Bob, and I do not completely disagree with your suggestions. However, the shear area of a 10-24 nylon bolt may keep it from protecting the wing from damage in a mishap. May I suggest that if you use a 10-24 bolt that you drill out the center to decrease the shear area? Since as noted in Bob's post the shearing should occur just under the head of the bolt. the drill though the center of the bolt only need be through the head to a depth more that the thickness of the bolt plate.

I think also that the use of a single bolt might allow the wing to pivot on the bolt rather than the bolt to shear.

I have used 6-32 and 8-32 bolts on landing gear attachments for .46 size planes and they have effectively sheared on a sub altitude landing.[8D]

I have not, but has anyone run any shear tests on nylon bolts/screws in this size? Might be interesting.

Best regards, Richard

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Yep JT I use the Rustoleum in the rattle can. One light coat, let sit for approx 10 minutes then follow up with one heavy coat. Let sit 20 minutes and remove tape. Let dry over night then start next color. Works quite well. My Champ had well over 100 flights before a gent offered me more cash than I needed for her. No issue with cracking at all. I was even able to apply some heat with the heat gun to clear up some wrinkles after a few months with no problems with the paint either.

Plan to build another and put a galloping ghost system in her!!!

Bob Harris

N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

Spaceworm,
I hadn't thought about drilling out the center.. that's a nice idea. I usually use two 10-24 screws on my 40-sized models, so I was scaling back from there. I also recommended the -24 pitch over the -32 TPI because the finer threaded nylon fasteners seem to gall and cross-thread too easily.

I haven't heard of anyone making any studies about the bolts and their shear, but it would be a good topic for a magazine article.

Thanks for that hint and the discussion,

Bob

pimmnz

Just FYI, I too have seen too many fuselages destroyed by nylon bolts failing to shear, so, on my Superstar 2, 0.60 powered aerobatic Patten model I used a single 10/32 nylon bolt and single 5/16 dowel at the front. Ive been using the same bolt for 10 years now, the model is on its second set of bearings in the engine, has been used for practise and competition flying, and there is no sign of any stress related problems, my guess is that we over engineer almost everything. Instead of beefing everything up 'just in case' we really need to see what the minimum safe size is, and then work from there. From my experience, for a standard .60 powered 65" aerobatic model a single 10/32 nylon bolt is sufficient, and may be overkill. Extrapolate as you wish...
Evan, WB #12.

JT Hammer

Sorry everyone. I havn't been able to post anything. My computer totally crashed and had to take it in for re-formatting and everything. When I got it home today I still had to put some software back on it. So all afternoon, I've been tinkering with it and retraining it to do what I want it to do. What a drag! We have had major snow up here, as well, and having to sno-blow the drive sometimes 2 or 3 times a day. Well, I have the wing for the Champ half built; that's something! Hopoefully, I will soon be able to up-load some more pics if this thing is working right. Catch you later.

JT

JT Hammer

One wing panel done - one to go! A bit fussy putting it together but kit builting always requires tweeking here and there. Now that I have experience building one panel, the other should go quickly. Will keep you postd.

JT

skylark-flier

JT, you're going to enjoy flying your Champ - that's a promise!! I came by one last summer (already built) that had ailerons added. Flew it quite a few times but was never really happy with the ailerons so they came off right after Christmas. Put the rudder on the right stick, increased the throws of both the rudder and elevators (not really necessary but I kinda like being able to "overcontrol" when I want to) to pretty much max available and flew her again on 2 January.

They're sweet fliers!!!!!!!!

Dave

(pics are before the ailerons came off)

JT Hammer

Thanks for responding Skylark Flier. You have made me feel better about my decision to leave her 'stock' - that is no ailerons! That sure looks like a great open country location where you fly and no trees to land in! I'm not sure how you came by your 'handle' but am figuring you have built a Skylark or two. I have as well way back then. Always wanted to build the Skylark 56 as a twin but never got around to it.

I'm heading to my workshop right now to finish the other Champ wing panel. Tomorrow, to the LHS to get some nuts and bolts, tail wheel, 6 oz tank, covering and yes, more cyano. It's getting there!

JT

JT Hammer

Voila - two wing panels finished! Not only that, they both sit flat on the workbench, so no warps - yea!! Got everything I needed to finish her off at the HS yesterday - wheels , tank and misc bit and pieces. I figure a 6 oz tank is big enough for the Saito .30. Will probably give 15 min. flying or more loafing around. Tomorrow I will join the wing panels together and perhaps get at the tail feathers. An enjoyable little project so far!

JT

skylark-flier

J.T., actually - the "Skylark" part of it doesn't even come from RC - - I'm originally a "born & bred" control-liner. Over the years I've flown more Skylarks (the Sterling Skylark CL aerobat) than I can remember, and when I first joined RC Universe (under its OLD name, which I've now forgotten) I was still flying them quite regularly. Still do, during the summer months.

One day I'd absolutely LOVE to fly the RC Skylark - which is really not much more than the low-wing version of my 1974-built and constantly flying Sr. Falcon. Also would love to have a KAOS one day. Who knows? Might actually happen before I'm old enough that I can't remember my name anymore.

Yeah, I highly recommend no ailerons on the Champ - they really just mess her up.

One other minor item that I might bring up. It's a "modification" to the Champ but a minor one. I'd drill a hole through the center of the landing gear and fuse bottom to insert an alignment dowel. My Champ is the very first plane I've ever flown with rubber band mounted landing gear and I get a lot of fuel oil between the gear and fuse - and it constantly slides out of position, usually on landings. Personally, I'm planning to do just that this weekend.

(1st pic below is of my latest CL Skylark - now a few years old and flying just great. 3rd pic was an experiment that worked rather well. I'd crashed that plane and when I put it together, rather than try to rebuild the rather heavily damaged nose, I extended the wing and made her a twin with tricycle gear. She flew just as well as originally but was a bit heavier.)

Dave

skylark-flier

Oops, forgot to upload the pics.

JT Hammer

Dave, those are awesome looking models. I really like your color schemes! Re: the Champ landing gear. Thats the one thing I am going to change. I am stiffening up the interior of the fuse around the landing gear plate with a bit of fiberglass and will attach the landing gear with blind nuts and bolts. I guess I could use nylon bolts for shear-away. Going to my workshop to join those wing panels together. Cheers for now.

JT

skylark-flier

JT!

Cool idea - I like that better.

BTW, in another forum I had a request for the windshield outline and I just added it there. Am adding it here also, just in case someone would like it here too. Message in the other forum is just below.

======

Hokay guys! Finally got around to taking the windshield off the champ and getting it into the computer.

BTW, my bird is the Champ Mark-II.

What I came up with is a "jpg". Best way, as far as I know, to re-create it would be to insert it into a MS Word document. Set the document to read WIDE (landscape instead of the usual way), insert the jpg and size it to match the jpg scale with the document scale. Each small square is 1/4" on the jpg.

Is also available in my website at [link=http://wanderings-ds.com/images/52images/champ/champ-windshield-2.jpg]http://wanderings-ds.com/images/52images/champ/champ-windshield-2.jpg[/link]

Hope this helps a few people.

Dave

JT Hammer

Thanks for the winshield drawing Dave. There may be someoneout there needing that! You made me realize that 'before' I glue mine in, I will draw an outline of it on template material i.e. cardboard. Well, the two wing panels became one today. It went together pretty easily, and I added a band of light fiberglass to the top and bottom for extra strength. Perhaps that wasn't required but I couldn't help myself. I put great value on peace of mind! Of course I had to put the wing on the fuselage to see what it looks like!.....and I like it!! Only have the tail feathers left to build - great!

Jt

billmod12

My Feedback: (1)

J T, Just curious but did you use any plywood dihedral bracing?

JT Hammer

Yes, this kit uses two ply dihedral braces near the centre (about 7 inches long) and another little skinny one at the trailing edge. I like to wring 'em out on occassion so figured the glass was a good investment. Also, by the time I sanded the centre ribs for a good fit, there wasn't much left of them, so another good reason!

Jt

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Yes Bill that was one design change I made per Hal's request. The original used 3/32 balsa spars whereas the ERCM kit uses 3/32 plywood spar and dihedral braces. JT you getting close!! When you get that tail finished and you can start making airplane noises to see how she flies!!!

Bob Harris

billmod12

My Feedback: (1)

....And a good Change Bob! I am with you guys on the ply dihedral bracing. My dad always put them in all his airplanes even his early Champ that called for 3/16 balsa bracing. I always use them in all my wings. I just did not see any provision for them in J Ts pics. I like to ring em out occasionally also. I always get a few remarks when I fly my Live Wire Trainer inverted.... Uh,,, "FLY" inverted is not quite the right term. I get it upside down and try to keep it there as long as I can...sometimes with impressive unintentional good results. Can't wait for your first flight J T. Dave has sure enjoyed his!!! Cheers! Bill