js3

My Feedback: (3)

Back in the early to mid '70s when I was only dreaming about R/C airplanes, these kits were on the wall at the LHS:

Sig Kadet--no MkII, LT, Senior, Seniorita, Jr.--just plain Sig Kadet
Sig Kavalier
Sig Kommander

Top Flite Contender

Bridi Kaos and Super Kaos (before GP got the license)

Goldberg Skylane

Would these kits be considered vintage?

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

It depends on your definition of Vintage. The Skylane is the only one you listed that is on the Vintage R/C Society list of approved planes. The Kaos and Contender are approved planes for the Senior Pattern Association.
The three Sig kits are all oldies but goodies, but they are not listed. I just purchased a Kavalier NIB this week from the market place here on RCU.

The Vintage R/C Society has three classifications:
Pioneer- Kitted, published or flown prior to 1/1/50
Vintage- Kitted, published or flown prior to 1/1/66
Nostalgia- Kitted, published or flown prior to 1/1/70

The Senior Pattern Association has two classes:
Regular Pattern- Any model designed and flown prior to 1/1/76
Antique Pattern- Any model designed and flown prior to 1/1/65

s. wallace

My Feedback: (24)

The original Bridi Kaos is VRCS approved, technically the super Kaos is not, although I have seen several of them flown at VRCS reunions.

I would have to check on the Contender...I'm thinking the original TF kit was 69 or 70. Check the VRCS website for a list of elligible designs.

www.vintagercsociety.org

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

Neither the Kaos or the Contender are listed on VRCS list of approved airplanes.

Acording to RCM the original Kaos publication was February 1970 (Plan #421). I am sure that the publication came before the kit. That puts it before the cut off of Jan. 1970 and disqualifies it according to VRCS rules unless Joe Bridi has attested that the Kaos was flown prior to 1/1/70. If he has done so, it can qualify for the Nostalgia category.
I would think Joe had the original prototype flying at least 30 days prior to the original publication date so VRCS may have determined it qualifies, it just has not been added to the current list of approved planes.

The Super Kaos was not published until 5/73.

js3

My Feedback: (3)

CCRC1, Low Rider,

Thanks for the replies guys!

When I started R/C back in '77, the Kadet was my first plane, the Kavalier was my second, and the Kaos my third. Just the other day I spotted a NIB Kavalier at the hobby shop and it got me to feeling nostalgic. Recently, there was a vintage R/C meet in my area and I just wondered if I were to build the Kavalier if it would be allowed.

Seems to me that the Contender is a late '60s design but I'm not exactly sure.

Thanks again for the help!

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

I am not sure about the Contender. The Original Red Box TF Contender .40 kit that I have is dated 1979, but Dave Platt was the original designer. I can't recall what publication it was realeased to as a building project, prior to its release as a kit. Its not listed in the RCM or MAN plans catalog so it may have been Model Builder or Flying Models.

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

OK I did a little research and according to Great Planes, the Contender was released as a kit in 1969. That would mean the original Dave Platt plan publication would have had to come before that, so it meets VRCS rules.
I am curious why VRCS would have missed placing such a popular aircraft on their list
I believe Dave Platt is (or was) an active member of VRCS.

Mike Denest

My Feedback: (1)

If you look at the VR/CS site, it will say that the Ron Baddorf is the keeper of the list. Send him an e-mail describing what you have and send some proof like a photo of the plans, a model you built and can attest to with a date prior to 1/1/70. He will put it on the list. I have a Glaskraft Viper designed in the mid sixties. I sent Ron a picture of the airplane and a couple of scanned ads from RCM (R.I.P.) with a date. He put it on the list. Dave Platt is on the VR/CS Yahoo Group, so why not ask him when the Contender was designed?

If you look at the plane definitions page of the website, you will see this: "The pilot is responsible for furnishing documentation for any model not on the VR/CS Approved Planes List as published on the VR/CS web site at www.vintagercsociety.org or the VR/CS Bylaws, Guidelines and Policies & Practices Booklet. "

So guys, if you have something you feel is missing, then by all means let Ron know. And, if you're not a member, join!

Here's some pictures from the Selinsgrove Reunion held on Labor Day weekend. The first photo is Beppe Fasccione's Kraft Bar Fli and Top Flite Orion, the second is Ron Morgan's Eyeball and Daddy Rabbit (I think) and the third is me with my Bill Northrop designed Big John.

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

Well, I went through my mountain of plans and I found my original plan sheet for the Contender from AAM. The plan was designed by Dave Platt, engineered by Sid Axelrod, traced by Hank Clark and is numbered #0702. Wingspan 54" and an area of 660 Square Inches.
There is no date on the plan sheet anywhere[&o]
I believe that AAM is American Aircraft Modeler Magazine. If it is, the plan is definitely older than 1970. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe American Aircraft Modeler Magazine was the predecesor to Model Avaition Magazine.
AAM may also stand for American Modeler Magazine, a publication from years gone by.

carlosponti

My Feedback: (1)

i just picked up one of these half finished in a kit:
Das Ugly Stick Sp 60" .45 - .60 REMA D Phil Kraft GL . 5/66

i plan on doing some revisions to the design so i can have a bolt on wing. actually the kit is mostly finished.

Mike Denest

My Feedback: (1)

AAM = American Aircraft Modeler. Descended from American Modeler. AAM stopped publishing in 1977, replaced by Model Aviation. So, we need to find the issue the Contender was published in. Ok guys, let's hit our magazine stash! There's an Ebay seller named Banjoflier who has a bunch of AAM copies. Unfortunately, he does not have the issue.

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

Do you think AMA could have inherited the original plans/articles from American Aircraft Modeler during the magazines transition to Model Aviation?
JS3, I hope you don't mind us poking around with this. It's kinda fun tracking back into the time that created the foundation for RC flying as we know it today. Those of us who were kids during the 60's and early 70's sorta like to wander back there every now and then, just to do what you were talking about in your original post. Dream about what we could not afford or participate in. It represents a time for some of us where the hobby required much more skill and craftsmanship. To be good and compete, you had to design and build, period! Once you mastered that, came the practice, practice and more practice at the field. Today the design and build portion is all but gone for the most part, its been replaced with "assembly". There are still a few us us die hard sanding block guys around, but the times are changing.
A good trivia question from that time period is always a fun challenge to investigate and solve.

js3

My Feedback: (3)

CCRC1,

Not at all. By all means, go nuts! That was really my intention with the thread to begin with. I can learn a lot when more people contribute their ideas.

What designs do you guys feel nostalgic about?

I don't think they can be considered vintage but I remember always fantasizing about the old Royal warbirds, and Top Flite red boxers. Another one I had my eye on as a kid was the Goldberg Shoestring.

Mike Denest

My Feedback: (1)

Here's an anology for you. When we were kids, we had plenty of time and no money. Now that we're tax paying adults, we have plenty of money and no time.

Did AMA pick up the AAM plans? In some way they did with the John Pond collection. However not everything is there and we will have to rely on digital magic to get the plans we wanted as kids. I'll ask this question over on the VR/CS Yahoo group.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

I bought and built a Sig Kavalier last year. I've heard that Sig is continuing to make the kits and I plan on buying another one just to have around. It is a fine plane to fly pattern with.

I asked Bruce Underwood, the SPA president, about the Kavalier last weekend. I know that it was flying around 1976 but the manual, box, and plans have no dates anywhere. Bruce said that they would add the Kavalier if I can get the date from Sig.

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Mike,

I think my wife would beg to differ with you about me having plenty of money as an adult. Your point is well taken, however. If I could have more of one or the other, I think I'd choose time. At least at this point in my life.

Don't know why I didn't think of this earlier but I went to Top Flite's web site and they had this blurb on the Contender...

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Blwblw,

The Kavalier is simply a nice plane. Mine wasn't around too long--I think less than 30 flights--what with it being my second plane.

Mike Denest

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks John, the original published plans and kit version (1969) should be added to the VR/CS approved plane list. If the new version released by Top Flite conforms to the outline and size of the original issue plans and kit then it can be added as well. Has anyone looked at that one?

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

That what I was refering to in my prior post. If the kit was released in 1969, the construction article publication and original plans had to come before that. So it easily qualifies for VRCS events.
I have the new Contender kit in my collection. I will compare the newer kit to my original AAM plans. I believe the dimensions are close, but the kit has been updated to build faster and save time. It would be nice though if the kit is approved. There aren't very many kits you can just walk into the LHS and purchase that are VRCS approved.

Mike Denest

My Feedback: (1)

Don't forget the Sig 71" J-3 Cub. It's a Chuck Hollinger design, published in Air Trails Hobbys for Young Men in 8/56, later kitted by Berkeley then purchased by Sig when Berkeley pitched their tent. It's VR/CS legal and still available from Sig.

fritzke

My Feedback: (1)

The Contender was in the July 1970 issue of American Aircraft Modeler.
Dave

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

Thanks Mike I hadn't even thought of that one.

Mike Denest

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Dave,
That's interesting in that the airplane was published after the kit?

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

Yeah that doesn't sound right[sm=confused.gif]
Fitzke, are you sure the magazine wasn't reviewing the kit, or was it a scratch building construction article with plans available.
I would think Top Flight would have had a major issue with a magazine publishing plans with a scratch building construction article for an airplane kit they had just released on to the retail market.
Maybe Dave Platt could jump in on this site and solve the puzzle? I would also like to ask him about the Contenders issue with the rudder and the new style wing tips and see what he thinks about how to correct it the adverse effect of the rudder.

fritzke

My Feedback: (1)

Well, I checked my OTHER database and I found it is called the "Suds Contender" in that one.
The first I looked at lists the Suds AND the Contender (2 planes) in that issue....I dont have the July 1970 AAM to check...Anyone?
I do have a copy of Aero Modeller Annual 1972-1973 with a plane called the Thunderlite by Fujio Arigaya
which is captioned as "(the)designers answer to Topflite's Dave Platt's approach to quick building R/C models"
Dave