carlosponti

My Feedback: (1)

i was mainly trying to point out that his subject has been done to death. i get tired of hearing about it. at some point let people do what they want if its arf then let them arf but if its build then build that is all i was trying to say.

i do both he he. i have acouple of linux boxes at home and i spend alot of time typing in commands. i have programmed against oracle and sql server databases for some time now. i absolutely love it. since i got married i dont have the time i used to so i am not able to build like i like to. so building has become a hassle.

dicknadine

I tried that a couple of years ago. didn't last very long as the fellows, students, had so many other things going for them, comptor, school activities,TV programs and don't forget the girls and their cars, that they had NO time left for modeling. so ARF filled the bill for a couple of crash's and they were gone to different ways to spend their pockets full of $$, which mother provided. so I just enjoy doing my thing for me, with more time to do it. dick

sbd-5

My Feedback: (4)

when i posted this thread it was not meant to be kits are better than arf's or the other way around.heck i have arf's also good value for the money but if i lose one it does not bother me as much as if i bulit it from scratch.you could have 15 top flite p-51's bulit from kits at the field and a good chance that all would be different because of the builder makes changes that he likes and the scheme he likes.while arf's are finished in maybe a choice of 3 schemes alot would be the same.heck i would love to see the current arf's offered as arc's even at the same price.it would be easier for the neccassary modifications to be made and i could chose my own scheme and finish without having to strip it off.especially on the scale ships i could go with sheeted wings and fibeglass and paint..point is that kits are built and arf's are assembled from pre-built componets.that was the title of the thread.you guys that are defending the arf's,do you consider what you do as building it or assembling it like a bicycle that needs assemmbly of the pre-manufactured parts?

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

I defend ARFs while never buying one or building one. I'm sorry for the previous negative post, but I'm getting pretty fed up with this whole discussion. I will agree with what you've written here to some extent. Most ARF's are pretty much an assembling chore, but their are a few that aren't.


Woops

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

I think some of you are missing the real point when this topic pops up. Its not about building being better than ARF's or the other way around. To each his own! The point that few of you see, is that the builders in the hobby are few and far between. And, when you are one, you miss the camaraderie and interaction that once existed when building was a major component of this hobby. The ARF only flyer does not provide the companionship to share ideas, skills and challenges with. They participate to gain a completely different kind of satisfaction.
This forum does provide the builder some part of that companionship, but it does not take the place of being at a club field or meeting with a whole group of folks who share your same passions, desires and skills. Thats what we builders miss the most, the time when building was the hobby, and flying was the reward for all the hard work and determination.Those of you who have entered this hobby within the last couple of years will not understand how we feel. You did not participate at a time when airplanes were built because it was fun and was not seen as a burden on your valuable time. We honestly don't care if you prefer ARF airplanes, we just wished that their creation hadn't turned the true modeler builders into endangered species.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks CCRC1. When I was last involved in R/C I looked forward to going out to the field, even if I didn't have a plane with me, for the companionship that you describe. Last weekend I checked out a field in my area and there was not a single plane there that wasn't an ARF. So what do these guys talk about when they're not flying? I mentioned to one of the guys there that I'm scratchbuilding a plane and he gave me an odd look and then said, "Oh, there's this fellow that flies here sometimes who makes his own planes."

If anyone knows of a club within reasonable driving distance of Greensboro, NC that has a healthy membership of modelers let me know. I'm not shelling out $80-100 a year in dues to be the oddball with no one to talk planes to.

Thanks,
David

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

I'm sorry to hear that. I wish I could help you, but I'm in a similar type of club. There is one or two other builders in my club, and a few that will build. I'm the only one who scratch builds.

Best of luck to you,
Woops

Jim_McIntyre

Sigh ... couldn't have expressed it better myself. Discussion around the picnic tables has become decidely less interesting since ARFs became popular. No one wants to discuss the merits of certain building techniques, selection of airfoil, or the next dream project and how you plan to construct it. It's more "have you seen the new XYZ YAK ... Yeah it's way sweet! I dunnno I don't like the color. Yeah I sure hope they come out with a yellow one, that would be cool."

The visit to your flying buddies workshop has also become rather boring, no more is it a peek into a mysterious skunk works, it's more a reflection of the hobby store which have also become decidely boring in nature. Rows upon rows of big boxes and shiny plastic monoplanes.

Hueydriver

Hear, hear, Jim! A lot of the fascination from building, at least when I started in the early seventies, was that the machine was your creation....that was the reward as was said so well above. Another aspect to the early days was actually watching, with amazement, the aircraft fly, even tho' the tx was in your hands. I still feel that when I take a machine out on a maiden flight. You still get this in the Free Flight side of model aviation.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

Geeze ! I just noticed the banner under this thread. Its an ad for an ARF Cardinal !

44 years old. I'm just getting to the point where I can buy nice scale kits and do justice building them. But I don't have anyone to show them to. The ARF guys think I am Yoda. They can't imagine building the kind of stuff I like. ( Scale ) ( even worse, civil scale ). There just aren't many builders at the field that can look at a model and know , that took 200 hours . I'm just getting in the game and the game has been called off.

Old World Craftsmanship. Things fit perfectly. Two planes built by the same builder might not be identical, but both can be perfect. The old world way of measuring and fitting is being lost forever. Cars, furniture, everything is cast, molded, stamped or milled. Nothing is hand made. This is a significant time in man's history. We are neanderthals . Neanderthals that can build a stratovarius.

So make sure the family takes pictures of you building planes. They might find thier way to the Smithsonian gallery describing the Pre ARF era. " First in his class, and the very last Craftsman"

papermache

My Feedback: (35)

I'm a little more optimistic about the future of building than most. I think the ARF has its place in model aviation. ARFs can provide a decent platform on which to learn to fly. With an ARF you can concentrate on learning to take off and land without worrying about whether or not you warped the wing while building it. To me, this is the greatest use for ARFs.
What I see is, that after a few ARFs, a lot of people are getting tired of their sameness and are looking for a "next step" toward something a bit more unique or personalized. Several people at my club have asked me where I "get" my models. When I tell them I built them, they start to get interested.
The whole business of kits is changing for the better as well. I look at a lot of the smaller kitmakers like Adrian Page, Mosquitobite Planes and Fun Aero as examples. Laser cutting makes for pieces that fit together well without a lot of sandiong or trimming like in many "die crunched" kits of yore. The revival of the "short kit" is encouraging with people like Bob Holman leading the way here. You can even have short kits laser cut from your own plans if you like to design.
I think that if we keep putting our "non-ARF" planes on the flightlines, they will continue to generate interest in building. If we don't, we're going to get a generation of modelers who think there are ONLY ARFs.

papermache

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

You are absolutely right, and its not going anywhere. The past several gentlemen posting I am sure will agree also. But, listen to what they are saying. They don't care if ARF's are being sold and flown at every field in the country. What they are frustrated about is what happened to the core component of this hobby that they enjoy the most. Builders and designers were at one time respected as Master Modelers. A term by the way we don't use much anymore.[&o] When we would bring a project to the field that we spent several hundred hours making perfect, the folks would stop and ask dozens of questions about the construction, design and finishing techniques. They asked because they wanted to learn and respected you for your talent and skills.
Not today, when I bring out a new airplane, even the simplest one, this is what I get asked:
In Order-
Will it hover? (this one irritates the hell out of me and its always the first question)
Where did you buy it?
Where can I order one?
Will you take $---.-- for it?
Let me know when you want to sell it.
Will you build one for me?, how much?
I can buy an ARF cheaper than you can build that.
Your crazy to spend all that time doing that when you can buy one just as good as an ARF.[:@]

Just remember that when these posts pop up, its really not that the Master Modeler is looking down on the ARF folks, they are just trying to find the place of distinction they once occupied. I liked the quote that Pilotflyer posted earlier, kinda made me LOL. "I'm just getting in the game and the game has been called off".

holtz128

Hi Guys, I'm new to the forum, but I like all of the comments. I'm 40, just getting into RC and I am pro-build. If some like to fly, but can't model, ARF's are good if you want to pay the premium price. I was in a local hobby shop this week and was amazed at all of the ARF kits, and actually had to look real hard for the build kits. I'm a plastic model builder for 30 years, and feel excitement over building a second RC plane (optimistic). I have a .40 trainer right now.

I'm trying to find a good build kit, preferably WWII, which is above the trainer type. My wife and kids bought me a Giant Corsair a couple years ago for Christmas, but I really think I need to get into a lower-level kit first, just higher up than a high-wing trainer. I've been looking for a T-34 or AT-6, but only seem to find ARF or Giant Scale.

Anyone have suggestions on some good balsa websites/manufacturers? I think the local hobby shops tend to be limited on selection and pricey vs the internet.

Thanks

mholtz

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

GP mustang .40 would be a good choice from what I've seen.

Woops

Jim Thomerson

Confusion or clarity? This is from an ad for kits on the back of April 1964 Model Maker, a British mostly ships magazine. "Model Makers! you'll enjoy building -- All parts are die-cut -- you just assemble"

sbd-5

My Feedback: (4)

good point but word in the uk sometimes have a different meaning than here but maybe not in this case.as far as t-34 or at-6's.try skyshark r/c i beleve they have a t-6 that is laser cut.ace used to make a t-34 kit.40 size that used foam core wings,you may find one on ebay sometime.thought there was another one but can't remember at the moment.as sted above the gp p-51 would be a good choice as it uses a sport wing from the ultrasport.true scale for a 2nd plane is not really recomened due to the higher wing loading and thus the tendency to snap on take off and landing.

roncoleman

My Feedback: (14)

Wing MFG has a few short kits you could look at.

Jim_McIntyre

Second that; Clone of a GP kit, flies like it's on rails, no bad characteristics:

papermache

My Feedback: (35)

Jim Thomerson,

I know what you're trying to get at. It's the same old tired argument that we get when somebody asks "what is scratch building?". Yes, there are those among us who think that "building" means starting with the drawing board, or MAYBE weith a plan. Kits are an abomination because the pieces are pre-cut. Well, where do you put the guy who designs his own plane and then has the parts laser-cut by a custom kit cutter? Is it simply "assembling" when I build an Old Timer from a short kit and the only pre-cut pieces are the wing ribs and two fuselage formewrs?

In a kit, it's true you don't have to cut your own parts out (unless it's a printwood kit), but there's enough cutting, fitting, aligning, carving, sanding and what-have-you to qualify "assembling" a kit as "building". The amount of prefabrication depends largely on the kit itself, but the building techniques are the same whether the pieces come precut in a box or I cut them myself.

Instead of arguing over the definition of building, let's go get some young kids involved in it so they can feel the satisfaction of watching something fly that they actually built.

papermache

dicknadine

I agree with you. it reminds of the contraversity going on about what kind of ART is better. Realism or Abstract. if you go to their discussion forums, you will read the same discussions-- PRO and COM. somtimes very heated. so settle down and enjoy your way of enjoying flying model airplanes. we all AIN'T the same. thats why I like my Pink Ford vs your Black Cadillac. dick stamm

roncoleman

My Feedback: (14)

Boy Jim, That Mustang looks really Hot! Is it an ARF?

Will it hover?
Where did you buy it?
Where can I order one?
Will you take $---.-- for it?
Let me know when you want to sell it.
Will you build one for me?, how much?
I can buy an ARF cheaper than you can build that.
Your crazy to spend all that time doing that when you can buy one just as good as an ARF.

I couldn't help myself. "The Devil made me do it."

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for making me spew coffee all over my monitor, roncoleman! Good one.

The new MA has an article by Aberle on guess what? Building model airplanes.

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

[X(]

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

roncoleman,
You forgot to ask him if it will hover![sm=wink.gif]

roncoleman

My Feedback: (14)

CCRC1, I fixed it. Sorry about the coffee Raineday.

Ron