maxpower1954

I plan on using vintage 27 mhz gear in my Lanier Caprice - either my ancient M.A.N. 2-3-4 or the beautiful Blue Max I just got today from Deadstik Dan!

27 mhz is all I flew until 1977, when I bought a World Engines Expert II on 72.160 (guess you could put me down as a WE fan, never had a Kraft, though today I fly electrics with Hi-tecs.)

I bought the new system not because of interference problems - I never had a single hit; and I was flying in Marathon, Florida in the Keys, 1/4 mile from the A1A highway! This was at the height of the CB craze.

Today at the local hobby shop, I mentioned I was planning on flying on 27 mhz at the local field. Some of the comments were totally out of line, and dead wrong. "AMA insurance dosesn't cover 27 mhz operations" was one. I tried to explain that back in 1966, the reason the AMA petitioned the FCC for the 72 band was for MORE frequencies for R/C; the interference potential was addtional ammo. Another guy said in 20 years of flying, he had never heard of anyone flying on 27, because it was illegal for aircraft!

As I said, I flew at the height of the CB era near a major highway on 26.995 without a glitch. Today, because of cell phones and the internet, CB is all but dead except for the truckers.

I'd like to hear some of the experiences you old guys (like me) had with interference on 27 mhz - past and present. Russ Farris

jlingrel

I to would like to hear about this issue as I have obained several old Heathkit 5 channels on 27 and plan to fly them in a nostalgia airplane. I thought I had read that it was not illegal, but it was suggested that you not fly on the old 27 freqs.. I am going to have to check the AMA web site and see what the rule is.

John

jlingrel

Here is the word according to Hoyle

27 MHz

26.995
27.045
27.095
27.145
27.195
27.255

Subject to interference from adjacent CB Operation

49 MHz

49.830
49.845
49.860
49.875
49.890

NOT RECOMMENDED FOR CONTROL OF MODEL AIRCRAFT DUE TO
LIMITED RANGE (Transmitter power limited to 100 Milliwatts)



This came straight from the AMA site members only section. Guess it is legal. Just not suggested. Here in AZ, it should not be a problem.

John

subarubrat

My Feedback: (1)

Pleanty of new production park flyers are on 27Mhz. And with CB almost dead now, no cordless phones, baby monitors, walky talkies an all that are on 27Mhz anymore the band should be pretty safe. Most consumer RF products have moved off 27Mhz because most pre-packaged chipsets are made for 900 and up and the higher the freq the better it is has been drilled into the consumer mind so that even chepie cordless phones are 900 Mhz and have been for almost 10 years now.

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Well, 27 is still legal as well as the older radios. I have 12 systems from single channel Mule with escapement to Ace pulsers, Controlaire reeds and galloping ghost as well as the M.A.N 2-3-4 system, Royal Classic etc. All work very well with no interference problems. I have used the original receivers as well as modern receivers with the older transmitters. Just make sure you go through and clean everything, replace batteries and do a good check over and all should be well . My Dad has been flying the older 27 for years with the same success. Si I would say go for it!!

BTW, I had my 5th surgery last September on my 2 fingers I injured when my new computer radio quit working in a helicopter!! So no matter how old or new the radio gear is it still can fail so alway be careful!!

Bob Harris
Early RC Models
www.earlyrcmodels.com

Mike Denest

My Feedback: (1)

27mhz is legal to use for both air and surface vehicles. 49mhz should only be used for telemetry (ex., thermal detectors). 50 - 53mhz require the possession of a FCC ham license and can be used for air and surface. I flew 27mhz for years without a problem. If you got 'em, fly 'em.!

maxpower1954

Good responses guys, I guess I wasn't too clear on one point - I'm aware that 27 mhz is legal for aircraft, just pointing out what was a common misconception some people have. I forgot that many modern park flyers are on 27. Russ Farris

Frank Schwartz

My Feedback: (1)

Well, as far as I am concerned, 27 mhz is alive and well for R/C. I shelved my old equipment and bought some new receivers off ebay..MPI 4 channel superhets for usually about 25 bucks. I also found a New...Futaba AM module they say won't work (cars only...blah blah blah...wrong!!!) , but they are full of bull as I am using a couple of them in some 7UAFS transmitters. Receivers have exceptional range and I have not had the first glitch...and am quite happy using the new equipment... I think I bought five or six of those 27 mhz MPI receivers on ebay...all work great and I am enjoying the pleasure of not having anyone at our field on 27 mhz...but me!! Latest one is a scratch built 40 size low wing plane...aerobatic and can fly it literally out of sight... Do not beleive anyone who tells you 27 mhz is not legal...not true... if anyone wants more information, kindly email me or ask on this bulletin board.

maxpower1954

Thanks Frank, I even had a Futaba tech rep tell me the other day 27 was ground use only! I know better, I direct people to the AMA web site which explains frequency allocation.

I tried looking for MPI four channel receivers on 27 on Ebay and Google, but came up empty. Do you have any links?

You wouldn't be the same Frank Schwartz that converted a Testors Skyhawk to full house back in the late 60s in M.A.N.? Let's see if I remember the details - Bonner 4RS radio and and Enya .09, right? I always wanted one when I was a kid, so I guess that article made an impression on me. Russ Farris

Frank Schwartz

My Feedback: (1)

My gosh! What a memory...and like all things, I wish I still had that old Bonner RS System and the Testors Skyhawk.. Probably it was on of the first of the small four channel endeavors..at least that is what Walt Schroeder of MAN told me....anyhow had another Skyhawk with the Testors radio..superhet receiver, no less and put a Kavan tank extender (it was metal..new ones are plastic and leak) and had great flights. I finally sold the Bonner RS system to Al Signorino of Snoopy Dog House R/C fame... but back to the present.. I will find the link for those receivers...on ebay and post it here...they come with or without crystals depending on the sellers...It is really good, too...and if you want a link to the Futaba TX module for the later transmitters (not the old large modules as in the Gold Face) let me know an dI will look up the stock number at Tower. You can buy them in any of the 27 mhz channels. I have one on 27.045 and 27.095. I checked the range and they are perfect...small, and all that I have bought (I checked my receiver box...6 of 'em) and with the 7UAFS I have a great combination...and not ancient, either.

Frank Schwartz

My Feedback: (1)

Oops! Correction!!!! I wrote that 27 mhz receiver down wrong..it is an HPI RF-2 (4 channel) receiver. (Not MPI as my faulty memory brought up from the depths) It comes usually with the HPI Savage TF4 set, pistol grip transmitter and all that..but they are often sold separated with the the HPI RF-2 receiver...and sometimes the seller throws in a battery box and switch harness..I keep the harness and trash the dry cell holder...I think there is one now on ebay (2/11/06) with the transmitter... just go into ebay and radio control parts and accessories and type in MPR Receiver in the search mode and often there are two or three for sale... so advise us here if you find one and also if you want the module number from Tower..if I find it I will post it...
I don't know why HPI calls the 4 channel receiver an RF-2..but that is the correct one...

iflyj3

My Feedback: (7)

Frank,

Please post the Tower module for 27 MHz.

Thanks,

Frank Schwartz

My Feedback: (1)

Hi, Dan..and others that are interested...HERE IT IS...and note that it is not listed in the regular listing of transmitter modules. Tower stock number is FUTL14** and the price is 39.95...Not bad!
Frequencies available for 27mhz are A1 (26995) A2 (27045) A3 (27095) A4 (27145) and A5 (27195)..so if you want, say, 27095 you would order FUTL14A3 They work very well, indeed, and the price is good and it is a simple plug in...remember it is the newer smaller module...and even though Tower told me it wouldn't work (and why not?) I found that they didn't know what they were talking about...
Regards to all and do post to us what you are goind in this area....

iflyj3

My Feedback: (7)

Thanks Frank,

The reason I ask is I am always looking for alternatives. As you are probably aware, the restrictions such as type acceptance don't apply to 27 MHz. A user can still build his own transmitter for 27 MHz. Therefore, it would be legal to use a 27 MHz module in any other transmitter. Yes, I do have a Futaba 9C but I also have a bunch of ACE Micro Pro 8000 (MP8K). Right now I am investigating 2.4 GHz as the Spektrum RF deck could possibly fit in the MP8K.
BTW, I am still flying an ACL on 27.045 MHz.

Again, thanks for your information.

injunnut1

In regards to: "You wouldn't be the same Frank Schwartz that converted a Testors Skyhawk to full house back in the late 60s in M.A.N.? Let's see if I remember the details - Bonner 4RS radio and and Enya .09, right?"

I still have my original Bonner 4RS radio ..... and yes, it was the first small radio on the market ..... at least it was highly advertised to be. The 'RS" stood for "Real Small". I pulled mine out of the moth balls about 25 years ago and built up another Andrews 'S' Ray with OS Max .10 power and the Bonner 4RS radio controlling rudder, elevator and throttle. I remembered that the transmitter used a 12 volt button cell battery pack, so I went to Ace Hardware and bought a big 12 volt lantern battery and strapped it onto the Bonner X-mitter case. All worked well and I could use modern day 3 wire mini-servos by simply deleting the receiver's center-tap (4th wire) to the servos. I reckon the tiny Bonner 4RS receiver was quite a little piece of technology back in those days? I finally got tired of the rather SLOW flying 'S' Ray with the OS Max .10 for power ...... soooo, out came the OS .10 and in went a Cox Conquest .15! Now, that was one FAST 'S' Ray on three channel flying, up until the wing folded that is ...... the Bonner Radio has been sitting on the shelf ever since! BTW, I bought my Bonner 4RS from America's Hobby Center along about 1967-8 for an even $300.00 as I recall (a lot of $$Jack$$ in those days) ..... that was the beginning of the end of my much too young a marriage <grin>.

Donald Garry

PeterC

How about this; I have an old Futaba 6 channel radio on 27mhz and get this, it's FM! I've never flown with it but it works fine. The servos are huge and the receiver is even bigger but it works! Right now I'm planning on putting it in an airboat just to test it out. Later on I've got an old Sterling Mambo kit for it which has a fuselage big enough to accept the radio system.
One radio system you don't hear much about these days is EK Logitrol. I've got at least three operable LRB's plus lots of old servos and receivers. They were great radios in their day. I've just got to quit collecting this stuff.
Peter

tony-howard

My Feedback: (224)

Just noticed this thread on 27 Mhz radios. I have a question which someone may be able to help with.

I have a ton of old Royal radio equipment I plan to list on eBay. But I have no idea what it's worth or even if there is a market for it.

There are 3 transmitters, 7 receivers, 36 servos, 2 chargers (including a very rare ProLine fast charger), 17 manuals (in an ACE vinyl binder no less) and a ton of spares including servo trays, servo parts and 3 / 4 pin Deans plugs along with some Royal plugs. The parts without the transmitters fill a records box. There are some ACE transmitter and receiver parts and kits (new and used both). Most of the servos are Kraft or Bantam mechanics as are most of the spares. There are 5 unbuilt Bantam kits. One transmitter is on 72 as is at least one receiver but the parts to convert back are there. This is not junk and most of it looks like new. The used stuff has limited flight time in the main.

So the question is – is it likely to be of any use to anyone and what should I ask for it?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Tony

iflyj3

My Feedback: (7)

Break it up into logical units and put'er on eBay. It will bring what it is worth. BTW, sell the unbuilt kits separate as some collectors would want them that way.

PS. For eBay search purpose, use "Vintage" in the add some where.

jlingrel

I have purchased a bunch of old Heath Kit Radios. The ones on 27, I am going to restore as is, and the ones on 72, I am going to gut and put Futaba FG electronics in them. I still love the old Kraft sticks.

John

rustleruss

My Feedback: (3)

I still own a 27 mz radio and use it all the time on my cox rc planes and have no problems about distance if i can not see the small plane anymore i know i went to far lollol

PeterC

From what I remember the old radio systems operated on a lot more power than the new systems and therefore had more range. The down side of this is that some kid operating a Radio Shack toy a few blocks away could get you. I still think they are practical in todays environment.
Time will tell.
Peter

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

27 is legal and I have one. My problem is the 4 wire servos are very weak due to weak magnets in the servo motors. Not any umph left. I have flown 27 when my primary radio was down for repairs with no problem. The biggest issues was 27 when the CB craze was in place. People would talk on them at the field also. But since cell phones etc,, I have had zero issues with 27 mhz except for the weak 4 wire servos. I tried to convert a modern 3 wire servo but the pulse width was 1.5 vs. 1.3 in the earlier so I wasn't able to use the new servos with the older 27 mhz radio. But if you have a reliable system. Happy flying. BTW 27 is covered in AMA as previous post just not recommended. But consider many arf's are also 27 mhz. Just another $.02 worth. Jim

maxpower1954

Rather than fool around with my old receiver and four wire servos, I'm using modern airborne equipment. A Futaba R-114H AM receiver with Hitec servos works perfectly with my 1968 M.A.N. 2-3-4 transmitter on 26.995. The range check was good, next I'll use my old Kavan Wingo electric as a test bed...just to be sure! Russ Farris

P.S. Jim, did you try using your old receiver with new servos? I couldn't tell from your message exactly what you had done. Russ

roncoleman

My Feedback: (14)

Flying on 27 mhz again?? Not sure if it would be cost effective but it would be nice
if Ace could bring back some of their old build-it-yourself systems.

Ron

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

I did try using new servos with the older rec. I used the GD 19 heath rec. that was in good working order. It will operate 3 and 4 wire servos. I removed the J connector and installed a "heath" connector but could not get the servo to center. I checked the assembly manual on the heath and the pulse width was 1.3 ms,, where the new radios use the 1.5 ms. Now this doesn't mean that a modern 27mhz rec would not work with the heath transmitter,, but I could not get the new servos to work with the heath receiver.

I am sure you can change a cap or resistor to change the pulse width but I just didn't care to take the time or effort to make the change just to use an old rec and servos. Now I do have a Heath Tx , Rec and servos that are all heath and they still do work and range check properly, but the servos are just too slow for a fast plane. They would fly a cub nicely though. Jim