Zel

My Feedback: (1)

Hi,

I just read your post and I thought you might be interested in checking this:

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I just got a call from Ed Crotty, he is doing the
"RC Hall of Fame", and he has the site up ready for
viewing. It still needs a few refinements but he has
done a Phantastic job of getting it all together!

He does not have all of the info on all of the
manufacturers yet but he has a really good history
of the Space Control! (Of course that is the part I
have the most interest in!)

You can check it out by selecting the "Manufacturers"
from the main menu and then scroll down to
"Space Control" then click on "History".

You can also check out the "Inducties".
Space Control with Hershel Toomim and Zel Ritchie
are in the Honored position!

The website is: http://www.rchalloffame.org

The menu items are rather small and hard to read but
you should be able to figure it all out.

You will probably find a lot of other very interesting
information there too. I haven't had time to check it
all out yet.

He will be expanding it as more info becomes available.

Let me know what you think.

Zel

Vintage RC-er

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

I've just spent the last 3 1/2 hours looking at about 10% of the web site.

Unbelievable collection!

Michaelj2k

Interesting in that the complete Kraft system sold new for close to that price![X(]

ukengineman

This is a great site, congratulations to those involved. I am going to really enjoy going through it all. So many memories from that period in the 1960's when every month seem to bring a new product or development. My own collection seems trivial compared with this.

SGibson

My Feedback: (2)

What a collection ! Most of the radios look like they have never been used. I know Ed buys radios on Ebay but I would really be interested in when he started collecting radios and how he came to own many of the 'firsts". He must have made contact with evey major and minor radio person in the USA.
S Gibson

Zel

My Feedback: (1)

Hi,

Glad you enjoyed the site!

Since this is not necessarily "digital proportional history" so I have started a new thread:

Vintage RC Hall of Fame

If you are interested you might want to check it out. The website: http://www.rchalloffame.org has the history of virtually all Vintage RC equipment.

Ed has done an outstanding job putting it all together.

Zel

Zel

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Highplains,

Thanks for your comments. Glad you enjoyed the site.

I am sure Ed would appreciate hearing from you. You can contact him through his website by clicking on "About Us" then click on "Contact Us": http://www.rchalloffame.org . You can check with him to see when he started his collection. He contacted me over a year ago to get info on the Space Control. I am sure he would like any new information that you could add.

Since the website, http://www.rchalloffame.org , is not necessarily "Some early digital proportional history", it is a history of all Vintage RC equipment, I have started a new thread "Vintage RC Hall of Fame". If you are interested you might want to check it out.

I will be making new posts in that thread.

Zel

My Feedback: (1)

Hi ukengineman,

Thanks for your comments. Glad you enjoyed the site.

I am sure Ed would appreciate hearing from you. You can contact him through his website by clicking on "About Us" then click on "Contact Us": http://www.rchalloffame.org . You can check with him to see when he started his collection. He contacted me over a year ago to get info on the Space Control. I am sure he would like any new information that you could add.

Since the website, http://www.rchalloffame.org , is not necessarily "Some early digital proportional history", it is a history of all Vintage RC equipment, I have started a new thread "Vintage RC Hall of Fame". If you are interested you might want to check it out.

I will be making new posts in that thread.

Zel

Zel

My Feedback: (1)

Hi SGibson,

Thanks for your comments. Glad you enjoyed the site.

I am sure Ed would appreciate hearing from you. You can contact him through his website by clicking on "About Us" then click on "Contact Us": http://www.rchalloffame.org . You can check with him to see when he started his collection. He contacted me over a year ago to get info on the Space Control. I am sure he would like any new information that you could add.

Since the website, http://www.rchalloffame.org , is not necessarily "Some early digital proportional history", it is a history of all Vintage RC equipment, I have started a new thread "Vintage RC Hall of Fame". If you are interested you might want to check it out.

I will be making new posts in that thread.

jaymen

Corrections to initial post:

Elliot and Kagele, not Krause, and it was mainly Larson and Kagele who started developing what was to become the Digimite. Elliot, as other have mentioned, had done the transmite design, meaning the transistorized amplifier for a Duramite to eliminate the need for two relays for every servo. Multi reeds has reached a zenith in design by that time, and had really been optimized. Relayless reed superhet receivers, Transmites, and quality Nicads, along with reliable simultaniouse transistorized multi tone transmitters were state of the art back in 1961-2. Elliot and Al Doig were both closely associated with Howard Bonner back then, and assisted in the design of Bonner products.

It is interesting that once Bonner and Doig saw Larson and Kageles creation that Elliot was not able to become part of the "team" so to speak, citing "philosophical" differences being the reason, as he eventually left to do his own work on R/C resulting in the formation of Logictrol. One can only wonder what Bonner's Digimite system would have been had Elliot stayed. It is unclear to me at this time exactly what Al Doig's role in the Digimite was, but having developed the Ulti-Multi system, he undoubtably had some form of input, being closely associated with Howard Bonner.

Most of the guys who were part of the radio control revolution of the early 1960s were flyers, and competitive ones at that. It is interesting that Hershell Toomim was not a flyer, he had to find people to test fly the first Space Control. Also, Larson and Kagele, were apparently very enthusiastic about flying, but had not alot of experience, in part due to issues relating to the cost of equipement, and it's limited capabilities. Spreng, Pullen, Kraft, Weirick, Bonner, Dunham, Ritchie, Martin, and other pioneers were well known and respected flyers on the contest circuit, even to the extent of some of them designing their own planes that became very successfull designs.

I think what you were seeing was a group of highly enthusiatic r/c flyers that were on the crest of a new wave. They knew they were bringing about a significant revolution to the hobby, and at first there was some reluctance on most of their parts as to weather proportional would be practical. But in spite of many set-backs, these guys stuck in there and forged ahead, right or wrong, and gave us the proportional systems we now take for granted.

The hobby never again will see a group of individuals like we did back then. Today, we see professional flyers who are in no way connected to the field of R/C electronics developement. They may have some opinions and input on what they would like to see in a radio, but that is about it. We never again see the designers flying their creations at contests and local fields, and winning national championships like back in the Golden Age. Ironically, back then people bemoaned that you had to own an R/C manufacturing company to be in the top eschelon of R/C contest flying. Looking back, at least we were more connected, as the Pioneers were approachable, and out in the trenches with us, in a manner of speaking.

SGibson

My Feedback: (2)

Jaymen,
I agree with your post regarding the pioneers versus the current radio company owners. Does anybody have any idea of who owns Japan Radio (JR) or Futaba or if the owners fly RC? What about Hitec, Graupner, etc. ?
When I was a kid in Junior High in the late 60's, saving paper route money for my second radio, a Kraft 6 channel Series Seventy, I wrote Phil Kraft a few of letters and he took the time to write back and offer advice and encouragement. In the midwest where I grew up, there always seemed to be a worker from Citizen-Ship at every contest or meet who would answer questions and even haul your broken radio back to the shop for repair.
Even though I have fun now flying model gliders, the old days were really exciting and always fun. The world was much smaller back then !
S Gibson

jaymen

Steve, Mr. Yamato owned Futaba. He was very closely associated with Mr. Ogawa of OS engines. His passion was Radio Controllled models, and his hobby as well. He and Mr. Ogawa were both hobbyist, and he was inspired by Ogawa's first proportional radios, as sold here under OS, by World Engines(John Maloney) They had a blue anodized case, and white plastic gimbals.

Futaba means new leaf, or green leaf...kind of like a sprout. Anyway, their principal product was vacuum tubes, and vaccum flourescent type numerical displays for clocks and early calculators(remember the blue colored numerals?) They had a close association with Sharp, and other Japanese manufacturers of electronics. Yuoso Diamond(York) came from Sharp to head up Futaba USA corperation, where my wife and I worked for many years.

Mr Yamato had begun developement of escapement and sequential single channel equipment as far back as the late 1950's for his own use, and began selling systems here in the USA by the early 1960s. They were initilally sold out of New York by companies like AHC, Polks, and later by MRC in Edison New Jersey. The first MRC(Model Rectifier Corp) digital proportional radios were Futabas. Alot of the early Futaba radios carried the MRC name, as they had made a deal with Futaba to distribute and sell in the USA.

The MRC proportional radios had delux features, and had an angled case with neck strap giving them a Euro look like the Multiplex. They featured chromed OS sticks at first. The angled case put the antenna at about a 60 degree angle for optimal radiation of the transmitted RF lobes. MRC went on to import alot of Tamiya products designed to use Futaba radios, and Today they are still known as MRC/Tamiya. In Japan, many Tamiya products include a Futaba radio. The same holds true for Kyosho, who also made Almost Ready to Fly planes set up for a Futaba radio installation, although Kyosho also had deals with Sanwa, and later JR.

By the early 1970s, Futaba began to market their radios with their name more prominently featured, and the MRC name slowly dissappeared from Futabas. This let to Futaba opening a USA corperation in Carson California from where they could distribute and market their r/c products directly to the emerging USA r/c market. My wife betsey worked at the Carson facility, and I came on board shortly after they moved to a brand new facility they had specially built in Irvine California, it was really nice.

Futaba had introduced the first FM radios from Japan, as well as the first PCM radios seen here, along with some of the best pistol grip car radios the industry had ever seen at that time. Futaba also introduced quick change RF modules that plugged into the back of the radio, another Japanese first(Kraft was the first USA maker with this feature).

When Mr. Yamato died, Futaba honored his wishes in keeping the R/C division, at it had been his dream. The R/C division, although highly successful in dominating the USA market, was never a big proffit maker for Futaba Japan. The computor keyboard, and automotive vacuum flourescent displays as seen in Chrsler/Mitsubishi car dashes, was the big proffit maker. Hence, with Mr. Yamato gone, there was increasing pressure to make the r/c division more proffitable.

The end result was that the new management team of Futaba Japan sold the Irvine facility and warehouse, turned over the r/c product distribution and servicing to Great Planes, moved the corperate headquarters to Huntsville Alabama and opened an office in the Chicago area to handle the automotive display and industrial r/c divisions. It made more sense to have the corperation located near the car manufacturing plants where Futabas main business was. The technicians at Irvine were dissbanded, a couple went to Airtronics, a couple went back east to work for Great Planes, I went to work for Tekin. One of the techs who went to Airtronics is now at Hobby People, as they aquirred Airtronics, much like Great Planes did Futaba.

So yes, Futaba R/C was started by an avid modeler, but nobody followed in his footsteps as a company leader, so the focus became profitability. The main reason JR(Japan Radio) made inroads in the USA R/C market was because Mr. Yamato died, and without him steering the ship Futaba fell behind, allowing JR to get a leg up on them. The reason Airtronics did not do any better was they did not import the top line radios here to the USA, those radios were availlable abroad, and in Japan, but with the death of Lee Renaud, Airtronics USA had nobody who was R/C savvy to head-up the USA distributorship. Frustrated, after more than 18 years, they let the Renaud family go and gave the opperation to Hobby People last year.

I worked for Lee Renaud at Cox, when it was still called Cox/Sanwa. At that time (1980) Lee convinced Leisure Dynamics, who owned Cox, to import Sanwa's better line radios with the name Aitronics/Sanwa. The Sanwa name remained at the insistance of Kagi, because the Japs wanted name recognition, as they were trying to give Futaba a run for the money, as well as Kraft. Lee worked with Kagi on the layout, and features of the first XL series radios. I have one, the first sample sent to us and given to me by Lee, it has no FCC ID plate or serial number, I cherish it!

Michaelj2k

My first Futaba product was the FPT-7FG/K FM 7 channel radio I purchased from Tower Hobbies. It was at the time when the US dollar was strong against the Yen and it made sense to purchase one. I still have it and use it to this day and it still looks brand new.

SGibson

My Feedback: (2)

Jaymen,
I have a Futaba single channel reed or galloping ghost, I don't know which. I will try to post a picture and maybe you can tell me what it is. I appreciate you taking the time to give us some information on the Japanese radios !
S Gibson

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Jay, I have a 6 channel single stick OS system I currently fly in the old Little Esquire pictured behind it. A great little unit with no issues at all. Very good quality. I also have a few of the MRC systems. I am currently flying one in a 1/2A model using a micro 27 MHz receiver. Again no issues and quite reliable!!

BTW, got another box coming your way!!

Bob Harris

jaymen

Woweee there they are boys, that's just the radidios I was a talkin' 'bout! That there MRC sho 'nuf looks brand new Bob.

At the time, that MRC compared very nicely with it's contemporary competitors, it really looked good. That was the radio that put the writing on the wall so to speak, and heralded the swan song for the American R/C business, which in just a few short years would go from the top, right to the bottom.

Deadstik

My Feedback: (8)

Jay,

All this vintage history is really bringing back memories of 60's flying. Today's radios seem to have everything we could wish for and more. Funny how a lot of us a working to resurrect sold of these older radios just to see if it can be done. Keep up the info!!

Dan

jaymen

How right you are Dan. A little inside joke amoungst us technicians and engineers who worked in the R/C industry concerning the virtues of older radios, especially when contemplating ressurecting them was this: It was junk then, and it's junk now!"

The very nature of the hobby market dictates the lowest cost, weight , and because of that, compromises are made. If cost was not a limiting factor, r/c systems for the hobby would be totally reliable, but until we are prepared to pay $1000 for a radio, this will never happen. Even today's spread spectrum radios have their issues, it's an ongoing saga.......

I myself fly non computerized FM, meaning good old PPM pulse position modulation(thanks Don & Doug!) or 6 meters AM. The nice thing about 6 meters is you can use up to one watt of output power.

phil_g

Does anyone remember Staveley Controls and their groundbreaking analogue propo systems?
I still have a Staveley 3 (green vinyl covered steel case, white sticks) and when I last dug it out it worked fine. IIRC my dad bought it around 1968 and it had Kraft KPS-10s which were unbelieveably small at the time. My own Staveley (long gone) had Controlaire S3's which were never very good, having vertically split cases that allowed the gears to jump mesh.
I manually traced & copied the KPS-10 amplifier & made a few for other club members who put them in cheaper SLM mechanics. I still have a home-brew 'clone' KPS10 here and the hand-drawn circuit diagram.

Anyone else remember the Staveley Analogues? Anybody want one?

Cheers
Phil

SGibson

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Phil G,
Can you post a picture of the Staveley radio you own?
S Gibson

phil_g

Will do, I have the rx & a couple of servos here, the tranny is at my Dads, I'll bring it home & post a photo prob wednesday.
Cheers
Phil

ukengineman

Hi Phil, I certainly remember Staveley R/C gear. Staveley were a large industrial organisation and the only reason they got involved in R/C back in the 1960's was because of a fellow club member here in the UK. He was a keen R/C flyer and a senior guy (director I believe) in Stavely. He persuaded them to get involved in R/C and they employed the services of a guy who had developed a good analog R/C system for his own use. I recall at the time we questioned him whether they were making the correct choice because the big move to digital was taking place. Only Flight Link in the UK were still making analog gear. They sold quite a lot of outfits as the price was good but ultimately like all the analog systems it was to fall by the wayside.
Alan

RFJ

Here are a few shots of the 1969 Staveley analogue system. This is the "de luxe" version with Kraft Hayes sticks which was supplied with KPS-10 servos. The "standard" outfit used Horizon sticks and Controlaire S3 servos.

I believe they later did produce a digital version but this wasn't too successful either.

Ray

phil_g

Yep, that was the story as I understood it too... mine wasnt the deluxe tho, although somehow I did get Kraft KPS10s:
I do remember it being absolutely reliable and never suffering any interference.
The Controlaires let it down I think, but the Krafts were great, unbelieveably small for the day.
Good ole days eh. Attached is a pic of my Staveley 3, its a little bit grubby but around 40 years old...
Cheers
Phil
Edit: rummaging around, I just found another of the original Staveley KPS10's, so thats two of each type now.

phil_g

I was going through some really old photos & found a few related to the Staveley, I think these would have been around 1970-71, I would have been 15 or 16 (I'm 53 now).
1) awaiting a tow, lightweight o/d glider using 2 of the KPS10's
2) my late Dad explaining his Slingsby & his Coaster to the lads at work
3) me aged about 16 & my 'kipper' as aerobatic gliders were called at the time (is this term still in use?)
4) Dad setting up his thermal soarer, Staveley tx in the foreground
5) my ugly stik, actually a 'liddle stik', underpowered with an OS19, later replaced with a Merco 35 to great effect
6) arriving at Ringinglow for a slope soaring session, Staveleys in hand, thats an Impala, a Wee Willy & an own design rudder/elevator eppler 374 sloper. I think thats a Graupner 'Amigo' on the ground, with a reed tx.
7) winding up the escapement on the single-channel 'Wee Willy' glider
8) my own-design pylon racer, this had mechanically coupled flapperons (no electronic mixers in those days!). Our little gang used to love slope pylon racing & as kids we took it far too seriously!
Cheers
Phil