mred33

If your plans ain't to messed up from building, you can get them copied and use them to make some more for your club build. As far as that goes, I wouldn't mind having a set myself to build another one. Mine flew great and I had a ball with it, but I was flying it after I learned to fly real good. That thing was kind of a hot rod with the HP 40 on there, but it sure was fun. My cowl disappeared somewhere along the line and I flew most of the time without it. I think I had about 6 flights with it and the rest of them were without. Still flew great and I still enjoyed flying it. I love those kind of planes much more then I do the ARF's that they have now. I would rather build then buy and mine don't look like everyone else's either. Now days they all look the same to me. Oh well, that's progress.
Ed

flightprep

Hi Ed,

I'll see if the kids are interested in scratch building one - with no short kit it will be a pretty serious project though. Some of the kids are a bit more adventurous than others - but having said that, we'll be building some simple SPADS this week so they can have some knock around planes for their early aerobatics.

One of the other club leaders make a replacement cowl, it looks and fits great (see earlier posts).

Slim_Pkns (this thread's starter) was kind enough to send me a copy of his plans - I would be happy to get you a set, but you would have to be aware the 100% problem - Xerox copies are never at 100%, and as a copy of a copy - well, the plan would be close at best, scale will probably be off by 3 to 5%.

In any case, your post prompted me to look around for Cherokees (partly because real ones are in our airspace all the time) - in the 40 size, Great Planes makes both an ARF AND a kit. The ratings here on RCU look pretty good for both. Herr (now part of Sig) makes a well rated little Cherokee as well.

Brgds
FlightPrep

slim_pkns

How ironic that I'm posting a long over due update and see somebody else needs plans! Howdy all!!!!!

If you've been here before, you probably know that I bought my first house a few months back and I'm just really getting settled in. I wanted to post an update and let everyone who cares know that I haven't forgotten about this attempt at a build thread and another thread I have going for a Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub.

I went out last weekend and bought a new building table and finally setup my "building room". Yes, that's right!!! Building ROOM! God I love having a house! WOOHOOO!!!


Anyway, enough about that. If anyone needs plans for this beautiful plane, I'm still willing to get you what you need. I've had three takers already and I think they will confirm that it all worked out well. All I ask is that you pay the few bucks for the full sized copies and postage. I can't remember exactly how much but around $8 - $10. I don't think you can even buy plans for a new plane for that!

Cheers all and after I get the little Guillow's kit off my table, I'll be back on the VK Cherokee Babe!!!! I decided it would be best to finish one frame up before moving on to the next. Covering and such is a different matter since I need to do it somewhere else anyway. I'll be checking this forum frequently again so if anybody wants to PM me, I'll be 'Johnny on the spot' as they used to say...

mred33

I decided to go with the Great Planes kit. At least that way, I have the parts already cut out and I'm getting tired of cutting my own parts out. I have built 3 scratch built planes so far this year and I need a break from all the cutting. I have a couple of other planes to finish first, so I'll probable have it ready for next summer.
Ed

slim_pkns

Hope to see a build thread! I'd love to see some pictures and follow along with your build.

Cheers!

flightprep

Hi guys,

I too am tardy with my post.

Sadly our Cherokee Babe rebuild did not survive through the 4H fair. After a few flights (where performance was extraordinarily good for such a major rebuild), gravity took over and the Cherokee is no more. Actually in the post mortem we think it was a pilot error (retrospectively agreed by the pilot), we have concluded that as he came out of a series of aerobatic maneuovers he was inverted (not upright), pulled up on the stick, and... well you know the rest by now. All that remained in one piece were the tail feathers.

Performance with the OS max .35 was good, it was neither over - nor under - powered. A .40 LA or similar would be a good choice for a fun fly.

(RE glide path (see above posts) we did recheck the CG, and made sure the battery was snug in place, and we didn't have any issues thereafter).

If I didn't have other build projects underway, I would be tempted to do the GP .40 size kit. I have not had interest in scratch building a Babe from any of the club members, so if we have any more Cherokees they will be from kits.

I'll check in from time to time to see how your builds are going.

Brgds
Flightprep

slim_pkns

I'm REALLY sorry to hear that flightprep. Another old-timer lost. I've lost track of attitude and done the same thing but fortunately it was a Hobbico Avistar! She was nice but nearly as nice as your Cherokee Babe. I don't suppose you have any video of one of the flights do you? I'd love to see what a Babe looks like in the air.

What are you working on now?

mred33

I did that once and hope to never do it again. I got to talking to the guy I was flying with and after a high speed inverted pass, I pulled up instead of down and you know what happens then. I really hated to loose that one too, because it was my Pica Duelist and it was hauling at full bore.
Ed

flightprep

We were all sorry to see the damage done - lots of long faces. All we can figure is that the inversion and semi-CFIT came after a lomcevak, and as he came down in a falling leaf planning a high speed pass, he lost orientation. The sun was in that half of the field, so visibility was OK but not perfect. I have some still digi pics from the build thread (I think they are posted above), but no video. I have to say that in the air - you could mistake the Babe for the real deal, great handling too. Oh well. If any of you guys do come across the VK kit - or even an older build needing some attention - grab it, you'll really enjoy it.

At this point I have saved the tail feathers - incredible that they survived - and am contemplating building a coroplast or composite forward fuselage / high mount wing saddle and marrying it to a .40 size STIK wing I have going spare, it might make an interesting exercise. The idea is it could be a third plane for some of the club kids.

This type of incident happened once before, 4 years ago, he was still really in flight training. The BUHOR SPAD he was flying buried up to the cylinder head in the ground (fortunately the ground was soft after a lot of rain), and after a good cleanout of the mud in engine intake, straightening the aluminum fuselage rails and a new fuel tank, it was flying the next day.

At least there are other planes to keep me busy - need to finish a GP Ultimate Bipe, and I'm starting an Eaglet 50 as a club trainer, thinking about going electric on that one. Having had some fun with a 'winter' plane cobbled together from the tailfeathers of the aforementione BUHOR spad, a coroplast fuse/wing saddle (to protect the servos and electronics from the wet/muddy field - no landing gear) and a .40 trainer wing, I'm thinking about another Das Little Stik from a laser works short kit, and going electric on that too - then again Tower now has a same size electric stik with pretty good ratings, it might be the easier option. !

Test pilot is now at college, the e-stick would really be for him at school (no way to have fuel in the dormitory!)

Brgds
flightprep

roknHS

I've got a NIB VK Cherokee Babe kit that I would sell...........You can PM me if anyone is interested.

slim_pkns

I can't believe someone hasn't already snatched it up! I've been making good progress on my Guillow's Piper Super Cub and should be able to get back to my VK Cherokee Babe in a week or two. Hope somebody buys your kit since it's NIB and work on them together. That would be sweet!

slim_pkns

I played hooky from work for a couple days this week. I finished up cutting and building all the parts for the Guillow's Piper Super Cub and can move it off my building table. I'm going to try my hand of tissue and dope covering in a few days but won't be doing it on my new table. What this means is that I can FINALLY get the plans back out for the VK Cherokee Babe! I'm going to spend the next night or two cleaning up and laying down some ceiling tiles I picked up at the hardware store before taping down the plans. I hope to pull out the parts and separate everything sometime this weekend! WOOHOO!

mred33

Ah, the old tissue and dope covering job. I've done a few of those in the past and I would advise that you try silk instead. You wouldn't believe how many tears we got in the silkspan from even soft landings, but I will admit that it was a belly landing with no wheels. Silk is much stronger and will hold up much better with the abuse we put on our planes all the time. It's also easier to put on, believe it or not. It doesn't have the problems with getting folds out and lays down around compound curves much better then tissue does. You can give it a try though, they do look good after you get everything on. Good luck with your covering job.
Ed

slim_pkns

Thanks Ed! I'm still studying the techniques but I'm thinking I'm going to just go with what's in the Guillow's kit this time just for the learning experience. Look for my thread if you have any other suggestions or want to keep up with that 'slow' build. =)

In the meantime, I'm working more today on getting my building table ready for the VK Cherokee Babe. I think I'm going to start pulling parts out of the box tomorrow and lay out the fuselage sides.

slim_pkns

Well... I got the parts out and started looking over everything and studying the plans. Some of the wood is pretty chewed up in spots but I guess that's to be expected from such an old kit. I went over the parts list and I can account for everything. I'm pretty happy so far but the questions have started to pop up...

slim_pkns

Examples of chewed up parts...

slim_pkns

So I started getting the fuselage sides together. The die-cut parts were cut very well. After working with the Guillow's kits, I'm amazed at how well the pieces were cut. I barely had to use a blade at all. I found the parts and laid them out but already I'm stuck wondering about how the top triangle rail should be added. The top fuselage half is flat at the front and angled as it flows toward the tail. You can see from the isometric view that the top triangle rail appears to be laid straight along the top of the fuselage sides but it of course runs past the top of the flattened part of the fuselage top side. I'm not sure if I should glue it down to the whole length or not. I've posted several pictures as examples.

slim_pkns

A couple of more example pics...

mred33

I just glue them to the top of the fuse sides and then cut any open sections such as the tail for the horizontal stab so that the stab can slid in after you get it finished. I also like to use Titebond II for gluing everything together and that includes the fuse doubler. Because of the water in the glue you will need to hold everything down under pressure or it will warp big time. I use a wood block a little bigger then the doubler I am gluing down and put that on top of the wood I am gluing and make sure it covers ALL the area you are gluing and then put weights on top of that to hold everything down overnight so that when you come back the next day, it will be nice a dry and above all else, FLAT, with no curling at the edges. Most of the weight of wood glue is water and that is gone after it dries, so you get a nice light glue joint that is strong. Just make sure that the surface you are using is flat and that the section you are gluing is not flooded with glue. A small amount of glue coming out the side of a glue joint is good, but if a lot comes out, you are using way to much.

All of the older kits that everyone is after these days are going to be in the shape you are seeing in yours unless they were never moved. Even then you will get a little of that. I have had new kits that had that problem just from shipping and you will find that even in laser cut kits sometimes with the sheeting. It is a common problem and is something that is hard to avoid with balsa. It just a soft wood that is going to get damaged in shipping. The only thing you can do is cut around the bad wood, or replace it. A crack can be glued sometimes, but a chip that has come off is just the way things are going to be with balsa kits.

Ed

flightprep

Hi Slim,

Looks like progress from here!

I still have the tailfeathers (from the rear of the servo bay fuselage former back), so can provide a bit of help here - the fuse 'box' rails are in fact all straight. Glued in place the entire length is what we had on our rebuild example. By the way , the original plane was build with carpenter glue - like titebond. Seeing what survived after the crash, I've found new respect for it.

When you said you "had questions starting to pop up", the first pic I saw was in the cockpit/servo bay area cutaway view. In the example we had, it had been heavily modified from the plan - unrecognizable in fact - so we just went ahead and modified it some more. I think part of that original structure must have been to fit in bigger radio equipment. Our frame was strong, so we simply took out the goofy bits and then put in some bracing / mounting rails, then used a standard Futaba servo bay holder.

Control rod exits for elevator and rudder are close to, but just miss, the rails. On ours they were GoldenRod.

Like Red said, just glue it up snug with clamps, weights etc and it will be fine.

Brgds
Flightprep

slim_pkns

Thanks flightprep! Yep, PROGRESS! Finally I can say I've started building this baby. It took me an extra day of studying the plan, isometric view, and parts list before I noticed that the fuselage sides - top half item from the die cut parts list had an extra sliver that's to be glued at the top of the 'top half' which completes the straight line from the cabin to the tail. This was the missing piece that made me wonder about gluing the top triangular side rail in. Anyway, I figured it out and started gluing the sides together. I used some heavy coffee table books to set on top but I need to get an assortment of clamps pretty quick. I won't be able to stack weight on the triangular rails.

I'm using the same Titebond white glue I used on the Guillow's Piper Super Cub. The instructions call for epoxy to glue the fuselage side doublers so I'm going to stick to that. I really liked that the white glue sanded easily. I wish I had taken pictures of the side pieces laid out before gluing them together but...

Should I go to a craft store to get clamps instead of the LHS? I bet they're expensive at the hobby shop. I'm guessing they make clamps for working with softer materials? I've seen those plastic clamps that look like a cross between pliers and cloths pins but the springs are always too stiff and I think it would damage the balsa. Any recommendations?

flightprep

We use all kinds of clamps/stabilizers, from small 'Pony' type spring clamps (lots a variation here in spring strenghth) to clothespins, rubber bands, and many sizes of C-type or adjustable clamps. Sometimes, for example on soft balsa, when the clamp spring is too strong and would damage the surface we cushion the clamping sites with cardboard or scrap balsa - that spreads out the compression.

Sometimes you need to hold positions with Tee pins, and I'm not totally averse to tacking pieces together with a spot of CA (and tehn forming the main bond with long cure epoxy or white glue).

Our local hardware (Ace) and even Home Depot type stores generally have a nice range of clamps, with fair pricing.

Brgds Flightprep

mred33

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46190

Here is one place to get some good clamps at a good price. Type in clamp in the search box to the left of this and it will give you the rest of the clamps they carry. Lowes carries some good clamps too, but the cost is a little higher. Anything that puts to much stress on balsa is easy to avoid with a bit of ply or scrap balsa to keep the jaws off the area we are working on.

Titebond is great and MUCH lighter then epoxy and I avoid epoxy any time I can. Remember one thing, the older planes said to use epoxy because we didn't have a lot of the glues we have today and you can sub Titebond for MOST epoxy joints, like doublers and so forth. Using Titebond means lots of clamps or weights though. Also pins and anything else you can get your hands on to hold everything in place until it dries and quits warping.

Epoxy is a great glue and until it came out, we had to make due with whatever we had on hand. When epoxy came out a lot of the kit makers started calling for epoxy and other glues that were just coming out, because they were stronger then the old glues, but remember this, epoxy is weight and the less you use the better. You should have seen some of the bricks we built when this stuff was just coming out and we were just learning how to use it. Don't use more then you REALLY need to and less is better with this stuff. It's great when used in moderation, but to much and we start getting into bricks again.

Ed

slim_pkns

mred33: you mentioned Titebond II in another part of the thread. Do you know if there is an advantage to using it instead of the Titebond White All Purpose glue?

If I'm going to the hardware store to look at clamps, I might as well pick up Titebond II if it's better than Titebond White glue for this model. Neither type is very expensive. Especially compared to epoxy. The white glue dries pretty quickly and it dries clear as well which is a nice benefit when building the little Guillow's kits. Since this project will be covered in Monokote, I don't care if it dries clear or not.

I'll need clamps Saturday so I'll check back on the glue question before going to the hardware store. I'm going to glue the fuselage side doublers on tonight. Unfortunately, I can only do a little bit each night on this project. It takes a lot more time to let the glue dry on this model than the little Guillow's kits. I'll post pictures tonight of the progress so far.

mred33

Titebond II has a little more strength then the white glue does and it is a little easier to sand, but for our use the white glue is fine. I just like it because it sands a little better. It does dry yellow though, so if you are making something that will show the glue joints, the white may be better then this one. If you are using this or any other water based glue for doublers, make sure that the whole part that is being glued is covered with a flat board or something to hold it down so the edges don't curl on you. I like to let mine dry overnight and let it get good and dry before I take it apart. That way, you cut down on the warping and it's cheaper and lighter then epoxy to glue up this way.

Ed