RE: WACO YMF
 

damifino

Jay sent you PM

RE: WACO YMF
 

Whoops, forgot a couple more Cabin Waco’s; a 1936 ZQC-6 (Dk. Green/ Cream trim) NC 16203, a 1936 YKS-6 (Lt Grey/ Lt. Blue trim) NC 16246 and a 1931 QDC (Red/Black Gold Stripe) NC 11470.

RE: WACO YMF
 

Here are the UPF-7s that were present; a 1940 (Blue/Lt. Blue) NC173E (based at CCA), 1940 (Grey/Yellow Military Scheme) NC 29927, 1941 (Brown/Yellow Cream) NC 32158, 1942 (Dk. Green/Yellow) NC 39727, 1942 (Red) NC 39743, 1942 (Vermillion Red/Cream) NC 39748 (Ken’s and mine ride plane thanks to Joe Norris, WB-54) and a 1946 (White/Dk.Blue trim) NC 29303. The last shot is from NC 39748 of CCA. You can see the Main runway with parallel grass strip (left of the left taxiway on the side opposite the hangers) and the 2 parallel grass strips at right angles to the Main.

RE: WACO YMF
 

To Stickbuilder - I've been building "stick models" for more years than I care to admit. I have just run across the plans for the Waco WMF 1/5 scale Pica model and a friend and I intend to scratch it into two beautiful flying machine! I have a number of questions about the plans which I will not take up space with now. But I do have a Zenoah G23 which I would like to use as the power for this aircraft. Since I do not see any mention of weight I'm wondering if this will be suitable power. My first thought was for a Quadra 35 but I would rather not use that old clunker!
I notice the dihedral is given as 2 degrees which I have computed to be 15/16"!! We plan to order cowl and pants from Fiberglass Specialties as they seem to do beautiful work.
I started to read through this long thread and got worn out after 20 or 30 pages. In time I will get through it, so I apologise if these questions have been asked before. I am a biplane lover and have watched the beautiful yellow WMF that's stationed at the St. Catharines Airport here in Ontario Canada, with love and envy. I just met a chap in our R/C flying club who is close friend of the owner - so maybe a hop in the real thing one day!! I will probably model my aircraft after his since it is so handy to have the actual aircraft sitting in front of me!
I notice a lot of 5/32" dimensions in the plans. I find it hard to obtain balsa in that measurement although Balsa USA said they would special-cut some 3" X 36" sheets for me in 100 lots. Do you all build with this dimension wood or do you adjust to 1/8"?
I notice on the plans that the ribs are listed as 1/8" balsa but the outlines you have kindly provided call for 5/32". Any reason?
Many thanks for your help

Jim

RE: WACO YMF
 

Jim,

The actual wood that was supplied in the kits for the ribs was 5/32" I would, and do substitute quite a bit of 1/8 wood instead. Lone Star and Sig will supply 5/32 balsa in lots of less than 100. In fact, i think that you can order it in any lot size that you want. The dihedral is 2 degrees per panel, so your plans are on the money there. Stan's Fibertech makes great parts, but the cowl that they offer is not for the YMF, but is in fact the UMF cowl (blister placement). Personally, I run the OS 160 twin in all mine since the engine fits within the cowl where the gasser's require cutting the cowl. Good luck with your project, and let us know where you might require some assistance. Please pay attention to the mods that we make, since they make for a more durable model (especially the wing spar ties)(joiners).

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

RE: WACO YMF
 

Thanks for that Bill - Since I already have the Zenoah and do prefer gas, do you think the G23 would be sufficient power? It looks close to fitting inside the cowl with maybe a cutout for the plug! It's rated at 8100+ rpm with an 16 X 8 prop. Do you have a rough weight for the model?
I have read the accompaning manual and noted the mods on the plans. Thanks for all that work!

Jim

RE: WACO YMF
 

It was a labor of love..... The G-23 should pull the model with good authority, since it was originally designed for a .60 to .90 2 stroke. The 16" diameter prop won't look large enough, but should fly the model well. Most of the models that I have built or seen come in at about 14 1/2 pounds or more. They will fly well at 18 pounds though, so don't worry too much about it. Yoou should be under power on your landings and shoot for a wheel landing and then cut power and let the tail settle. Don't get too slow when you are close to the ground. It is very easy to run out of altitude, airspeed and ideas at the same time.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

RE: WACO YMF
 

Thanks Bill - that's what I hoped. I have a fat and heavy Supercub that has an old wheasy Quadra 41 in it. At 20lbs. it flies just like a cub should and loves wheel landings under power. Also have it on B-USA floats and ditto. A friend is running a G26 with an 18 X 6 prop and it moves his ARF (ugh) Super Stearman quite nicely so I will probabl;y put an 18" prop on this. Makes it a little more scale too as you suggest.
Thanks for the info - now to work on the wood list!

Jim

RE: WACO YMF
 

Jim---to add to Stickbuilder's reply, I have a G-26 in mine, and it flies great, plenty of power at 18 pounds flying weight (that was probably my plane he was talking about) It's solid as a rock in the air, and glides like one when you cut the throttle:). All I had to do to fit mine was two holes in the bottom of the cowl for the spark plug and plug wire, and a small cutout along the Slimline Pitts muffler. The Quadra 35 is much bigger, and you'll have to make a big hole for the cylinder head. The G-23 should fit fine, about like the -26. You have to use the short insulator block between the carb and cylinder, and there's no room for a velocity stack. Here's a few pics of my installation, with and without the cowl:

RE: WACO YMF
 

Replied to your PM, sorry for the delay!

RE: WACO YMF
 

All,

Since this is an YMF thread, figure I will get started posting YMF pictures. These pictures are of a 1987 YMF Classic, built by Waco Classic Aircraft Corp, NC 14081, Owned by Robin Williams of Traverse City, Michigan. The YMF Classic is most similar to the original YMF; the YMF Super has many more changes.

The subject of lower wing fairings keep coming up so in this installment I will show what I have, other sections I will cover later.

Picture 1 – Rear view showing the wing walk on the left.
Picture 2 – Lower Cowl, exhaust ports, Landing Gear Center mount, and general underbelly with landing gear fairings.
Picture 3 – Top view of the right wing fairing with notch.
Picture 4 – Rear view of the left underside of the wing fairing
Picture 5 – Leading edge of wing, trailing edge of landing gear fairings. Note the lower Red light and antennas
Picture 6 – Low shot of the same area. This joint on many models is neglected to facilitate mounting of the lower wing.

RE: WACO YMF
 

Jay,

Here's proof that we wore our WACO Brotherhood shirts proudly. A shot of Ken checking out the the "Skybolt":D. UPF-7 NC 39748 in the background just finished refueling.

RE: WACO YMF
 

Thanks khodges that's great! Those pix will go a long way to helping me with the motor mount. I have ordered a G26 muffler a minute ago for the G23 I will use. (G23 pipe points back?? - G26 pipe points down!) I do have a "wraparound" style like you have used, but I think the stock muffler will fit inside the cowl and I'm going to see if I can do some creative welding for the pipes to approach a scale look and thus avoid cutting out for the muffler.
Great shots skylarkmk 1. Thanks

Jim

RE: WACO YMF
 

Stickbuilder - what's the drill for getting a Waco Brotherhood number? And Damifino - any Tee Shirts left?

Jim

RE: WACO YMF
 

Damifino,

I received my tee's today....The first word that came to me was...... AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks again for taking the time and effort to make these tee's available to all of us!!!! I, for one, am VERY impressed with the quality of the artwork!!!

RE: WACO YMF
 

SuperCubMan- Speaking for Stickbuilder, you just asked for and will receive a number. PM me with your shirt size(s) and I'll see what I've got left. I'll also include payment info in the reply.

Thanks to our 'roving reporters' for the fantastic pictures. You guys.............!:D

RE: WACO YMF
 

All,

Some of the other Waco’s present; 3 UBF-2s, NC 2091K (Tan/ Brown trim), NC 12002 (Red/Silver w/Black trim) and NC 155Y – TEXACO 17 (Red/White) all based at CCA, NC 155Y was flown a couple of times. QCF-2, NC 9220J (Cream w/Red trim) proves you can get 2 people in the front cockpit, but it’s cozy. ASO NC 662Y (Blue/Silver w Red trim) #26 on take off, is part of the Air Tours Group (note the under camber of the wings). A static replica of WACO #1, the “Cootie” was built full size (22’ wing span) and brought to the Museum by Roger Teagarden. Plans are to cover the wings, finish the fuselage and put the correct prop in place (the prop shown was put on as a joke).That is the Museum’s JYM to the right. ASO (Black/Silver) NC 701E was flown in from Ft. Worth, TX and is headed back to California. The pretty Red w/Black trim Taperwing, NX 149TW, was actually built by the owner, Robert Patrick, in 2005 and flew in from central Idaho. This pretty well covers the Wacos that flew in; the museum has about 14 more that were on display in the museum hanger. The 2008 AWC Fly In will again be held at Creve Coeur Airport about the same time next year.

RE: WACO YMF
 

John, what a great job of photography!, it is very evident you knew what you wanted to shoot. Also, a great job explaining your every shot. You have answered many Brotherhood questions I'm sure. I have saved every picture you have posted. Thanks again.

Skinny Bob

RE: WACO YMF
 

Here's some more bits and pieces of what we saw this past weekend. In most of the pics I have collected on WACO's from the 'net, most have had wooden props. Not so this weekend; only one WACO showed up with a wood prop, and only after he had been there, left, and returned. There were a couple of variable pitch jobs with the counterweights, and several more that are ground adjustable for specific pitch, but the most popular (and desired by all who don't have one) was the Curtiss-Reed propeller. It is polished steel, and the cross-section of the prop is very thin. They are made flat and then formed to the desired pitch. Most who used them said they will "flatten out" with full power, lowering the effective pitch and making it into a good pulling prop, and then, when power is reduced to cruise, the blades return to their nominal set, making a good "speed" prop. I asked a couple of people about it, both said they weren't sure if it was an intended design characteristic, but it sure did work well.

John had the much better camera for action and telephoto shots. Mine worked fairly well for static and interior because it was wide angle. The interiors and instrument panels on these planes were also works of art, excellent examples of form following function, with a little art deco thrown in. The cabin WACO's reminded me of the interior of a 40's era Hudson, or Studebaker. Wood trim galore, tweed and wool fabrics, and even leather in the SRE. The windows had cranks to roll them down, just like a car. Even the DH-4 had a simple elegance to its business-like panel. And on the other end of the spectrum, the Curtiss Robin in the museum was the essence of spartan simplicity. Below are, left to right, the VKS interior, the SRE interior, the DH-4, and the Robin: Below that are the different props we saw, variable, ground adjustable, wood, and Curtiss-Reed:

RE: WACO YMF
 

Bob,

Thanks. There was so much going on it was hard to keep up everything going on. I did have one goal in mind and that was to get good pictures of an YMF and I believe I accomplished that. My second goal was to get a few shots of each Waco that flew in for the weekend and I managed to do that. The rest was a bonus.

Besides the Wacos and the DH-4 with Desmond Penrose (a highlight in my opinion), there were many other aircraft that flew demo flights. Everything from a J-3, an L-4B, an L-16, a Fairchild 24, Fairchild 71, the numerous PT-17s, 3 Ercoupes, a Travel Air 4000, A Monocoupe, 2 Cessna 195s, a Pete-N-Paul, a Swallow, a few Pitts, Christen Eagles, an Acro Sport and then the heavy metal military aircraft. An AT-6 painted all yellow “Yahoo”, an F-51D Mustang (painted as “Petie 2nd”), the big 6 man Skyraider all decked out with rockets and finally a Russian L-29 Jet Trainer. Plus wandering around all the hangers and seeing what was inside each one. Planes just sitting, planes in pieces, planes being restored and planes were being polished. I am not forgetting all the modern metal skin General Aviation Aircraft, just ignoring them for now.

I think one of my best memories will be of watching Ken trying to take it all in as well. He was like a big kid in a candy store not knowing which way to turn or what to grab first, he was practically jumping up and down with excitement. Thanks for coming out to the Fly In and palling around with me, I know you enjoyed it as well.

RE: WACO YMF
 

Bits and pieces, redux. There was some model cabin WACO in a hangar for restoration; the wings were in process of re-covering. I shot a couple of pics from the tank well of the top wing, into the interior of the structure. The wing had been covered, ribs stitched and taped, and the cover shrunk, but not yet doped or painted. The stitching is fascinating. Another plane in a different hangar being restored a little at a time was a GeeBee R-2. Reminded me of a bumblebee, no way the thing can fly:) That's a P&W Wasp, Jr hanging on the front:

RE: WACO YMF
 

The one unchanging, universal attitude about the people we met this week was their absolute passion for their aircraft. One couple epitomized this with their "build book" they brought along with their beautiful YKS-7. The restoration took place in their house, from the living room to the garage, to the driveway. They had pictures of covering the wings and control surfaces in their living room; the fuselage resided in the garage. And when it came time to mount the engine, they hired a tow truck to lift it into place. He had been furloughed at work, so he rebuilt while she worked to support the family, as well as diving in on the weekends to help with the restoration.

The front view shows the much desired Curtiss-Reed prop.

RE: WACO YMF
 

John is right, I was like a kid at the zoo, pointing, oohing and ahhing. I've been to many airshows and museums, primarily warbirds from WWII and later; this was my first exposure to so much Golden Age and earlier stuff.

My last entry for the night: more interiors and instrument panels. I'm afraid I wasn't as good at writing down what was what as John was. No matter, they're all beautiful.

RE: WACO YMF
 

I have several XXL's and a few L's left. Get these while you can. PM me with your inquiries please.

RE: WACO YMF
 

Ken,

You gave me a bit of a challenge with the interior shots but here goes:

1- WACO UPF-7 NC39727
2- Fairchild 71 NC 9727 (photo1)
3- WACO UBF-2 NC 2091K
4- Swallow NC 979 (photo 2)
5- WACO UBA NC 13041
6- Stinson SR-6
7- Travel Air
8- Russian Shavrov-2 Seaplane (photo 3)
9- Stinson SM-8A
10- WACO QCF NC 12428
11- Russian Antonov AN-2P N 147AS (photo 4)

The shots of the wing interior are of the WACO YKS that I posted wing tip pictures before.

The Gee Bee will become an R-1/R-2 when completed as was done in 1933 after both the R-I and R-2 had crashed and they were put together.