Hi all,

Today was a great day. I have been offered a helicopter flight for my 30th birthday. It was not a classical "1st time" flight, but a true flying initiation flight. I hold the controls during maybe 15 min, the flight was 20 min. The chopper was a Robinson R22 beta, featured here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJss8jUj5aw

We were moving so fast a few feet above the ground, there was not a lot of room for error ... The pilot simulated an engine failure, and here we went for an autorotation mode descent, from say 300 ft, it was so brutal that my ears hurt ! And before landing on the big H on the floor, the pilot just pull very hard, I was afraid that the tail rotor would strike the ground. Pitch was around 45 degrees... Then a full backwards run for 300 meters, again a few feet above the ground, a spin and a half, and then back to "normal" flight and we landed sideways...

Well, it was really scary. I don't really want to try this again... Do you think it's normal ? It looked fun, the pilot seemed too enjoy it so much. He had "only" 2.000 flight hours... and has been a heli pilot for 6 years and is currently an "instructor".

One more :

Hi:
I do not think he was supposed to scare you! The reasons for first flights are to get you to want to take lessons. I am sure that if this was done at a school, and his boss saw what he was doing, he would be talked to about it. Even in taking lessons, the instructor is taught to watch the student and to make it fun for him so as to make them want to come back. The instructor is to make it a fun learning experience as I see it. This is only my personal opinion on this matter.

I don't want to blame the instructor actually, it may be me too ... I think the instructor was trying to show me all that one can do with such an aircraft, and this is even more impressive when you're on board. Anyway, it was worth the money, I'll remember that for a long time !!

I am going to say half and half. the stuff he showed you is stuff you have to learn to get a license, but I think he went the wrong way with it in showing you. I am still trying to get the autos right but I have gotten use to the ride. A 300 ft auto is kind of low for showing you . The initial drop can be a suprise but once the airspeed stablizes it is ok. I practice from about 1000. R-22's are not very forgiving. I am flying an Enstrom. My instructor is so good he practices "precision autos" he picks a spot, overflys it, starts the auto backwards, swings around and lands within 5 ft. It is realy fun.

Well, 300ft was only a guess, I was not really looking at the altimeter !! Maybe it was more...

Yes exactly.

I've heard that these have the highest crash record ever... Maybe these pilots feel too comfortable with it

Scary? Exactly.

Just looking at the configuration of the Robinson helicopters makes me nervous. Something about the cyclic stick design, small airframe and the low inertia rotor system combine to make me just as nervous as you.

The Bell 206 series is a good small helicopter that is very forgiving of minor points of inattention when flying, primarily the autorotation. They have a good survivability rate, though the best survivability rate belongs to the Hughes 500.

Next time, try a flight in a turbine aircraft and compare the differences. I've never flown in a piston, so I wouldn't know what the particular differences between the two.

Happy Flying

I would like to, but I think the budget will not be the same... And true, the low inertia was really there...

The piston one felt very shaky at low idle !!

Any of you guys an RC heli pilot? I would love to be able to do that again!

I have not had the experience on an R-22, but I've been along for the ride on military helicopters on simulated combat missions and flights over hostile terrain (non-simulated). What you felt and saw it's nothing compared to what a Huey, Blackhawk or Chinook can do when pushed hard.

I have been to fixed-wing flight schools, and the first flight (demo flight) is to demonstrate what the capabilities of the airframe are. Your pilot did exactly that. he showed you what was possible, to put you "at-ease" while taking the normal classes now that you've been thru worse in the "demo flight".

Rafael

It is indeed a solution to make sure you won't leave later because of those scary manoeuvers !!

Good instructors don't scare students on demo flights. You don't need a 'hey, watch this' type of guy as instructor. If you want to continue flight training, I suggest getting a different teacher. Alot of these guys in flight schools have relatively little experience and teach to build hours. Nothing wrong with this inherently, but just don't implicitly trust whoever happens to be flying with you until you are comfortable with their judgement. This is tough to do if you if you are a total noob, because you likely don't know the difference.

ALL helicopters are shaky to me. I am always surprised how they tend to smooth out when airborne, except the twin rotor birds like a CH-46.

The way the rotor system in a Tandem vibes, that's the best nap you'll ever have. It just shakes in a way that relaxes you and puts you to sleep. A 20 minute nap feels like an hour.

Turbine helicopters are great but for civilian flight training you will not get an insurance policy so you will have to get piston time and upgrade. I got to fly the Enstrom turbine last summer and it flew just like the piston version but heavier. I like the piston ones because they are light on the control, and the fully articulating head on the Enstroms give a handeling edge because response is faster. The high inertia head on the Enstrom also lets you recover from low rotor rpm in an auto quickly. in a Robinson you have to get it right fast. The Robinson is faster and because of the blades is easy to hanger so it gets a lot of sales just on those things.

Did he do this?

Heh no, I would have repainted the cockpit otherwise. Yuk !

I'll fly in a phrog any day, any where, any time!


BV

I've heard that these have the highest crash record ever... Maybe these pilots feel too comfortable with it

more than any other reason is more people fly them then any other helicopter.
but yes given the choice i would go up in something other than a robby. i have 250 hours in helis and over around 150 of it in a r22.
they are the cheapest way to fly for a long time but when they do break its usually big $$ to repair.
turbines are great but cost way more to fly and just way to much for training in unless you need time in type.
i only have 10 hours turbine do to $$. 50 gallons an hour minimum fuel burn adds up really fast. r22 is 8gph - 10 depend on how you fly it.

I am pursuing my professional heli career also. I have been up in a Eurocopter 350 Twinstar and did an intro in a Schweizer 300C. I hovered the 300, very cool! Can't wait to actually fly more. The flight school aquired an MD500E, woohoo

Hey Nick it's pretty addicting aint it? I too took a lesson in a 300, down in fort collins..what a hoot. I could only barely hover, and only for short periods at a time before it went all to hell. Straight and level I felt it easier than flying fixed wing, which I'm actually certified(just a ppl though) I'm actually considering resigning my commission to cross to the Army through their warrant heli program if I can find a guard unit to sponsor me. I keep going back and forth about doing helis for a job, or keeping decent pay where at currently and just building my own little hotrod RV-8..decisions..haha.

Sure is addicting! Did you get your C120? If so, how is she flying? I would love my own aircraft but if I got one it would probably be an ultralight or homebuilt.

I did some hovering and the instructor did an auto, very fun! I didn't do any straight and level that day, it was 15 gusting to 22. Hovering in wind was my task

Are you active or reserve now? What do you do? That sounds like a good program to get into!

SKYARTEC NICE goods.

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...V3&search_type
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...na&search_type

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzWw5U3eCok&fmt=18
My best friend and boss made this yesterday. It is an auto with a left pedal turn, a short vertical decent; we do this one all the time. You can do this in an Enstrom because of more mass in the rotor system; a Robinson or 269-300 cant retain the energy as well so you have to head for the ground without much dallying.