DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
12-25-2003 | 07:23 PM
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From: Woodlands,
TX
DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
I finally got my edge in from wild hare last week and started construction, now the next big issue arrises... what to use for power.
The choices:
DA 50cc
BME 50cc
ZDZ 60cc
The BME is the cheapest of the 3 and has exactly the same ammount of power/weight as the DA, however I've never seen one run and cant say as I want to buy an unknown...
The DA is trustworthy as I have seen a lot of them at my field.
The ZDZ gives me another 6.7 lbs of static thrust or so over the 30 provided by the other engines however it also comes with the weight penalty of 1 lb.
Depending on how a friends plane flys with a DA50 I may choose to go with the smaller engine, however in that case, which one...
Qustions:
Anyone here run a BME before or seen one? I do a lot of on-the-deck stuff that I have to ABSOLUTELY trust my engine for.
General comments or ideas, engines that i've not thought or heard of?
- Ian
The choices:
DA 50cc
BME 50cc
ZDZ 60cc
The BME is the cheapest of the 3 and has exactly the same ammount of power/weight as the DA, however I've never seen one run and cant say as I want to buy an unknown...
The DA is trustworthy as I have seen a lot of them at my field.
The ZDZ gives me another 6.7 lbs of static thrust or so over the 30 provided by the other engines however it also comes with the weight penalty of 1 lb.
Depending on how a friends plane flys with a DA50 I may choose to go with the smaller engine, however in that case, which one...
Qustions:
Anyone here run a BME before or seen one? I do a lot of on-the-deck stuff that I have to ABSOLUTELY trust my engine for.
General comments or ideas, engines that i've not thought or heard of?
- Ian
12-26-2003 | 07:34 AM
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From: in,
FL
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
BME is as good as any. All these engines are very reliable. A lot of people are trusting 40% planes with BME's.
I have a BME-50 on a GP Patty Extra and it has proven to be a great engine.
I have a BME-50 on a GP Patty Extra and it has proven to be a great engine.
12-26-2003 | 07:57 PM
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RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
Ian,
I know someone (Sean) ready to test fly his with a DA-50 tomorrow if the weather holds out. We should be at sport flyers field if the weather is good. He is also using c.f. tailwheel, c.f. pushrods, single rudder servo near cg, etc. to avoid adding nose wieght.... that motor is light, but they say it will balance with the rudder servo near the c.g.
I guess we'll see.
send me a private message if you want to meet us.
Regards,
Mark
I know someone (Sean) ready to test fly his with a DA-50 tomorrow if the weather holds out. We should be at sport flyers field if the weather is good. He is also using c.f. tailwheel, c.f. pushrods, single rudder servo near cg, etc. to avoid adding nose wieght.... that motor is light, but they say it will balance with the rudder servo near the c.g.
I guess we'll see.
send me a private message if you want to meet us.
Regards,
Mark
12-26-2003 | 08:24 PM
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From: Glen Robertson, ON, CANADA
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
The BME, DA and ZDZ are all good engines
The cheapest I beleive is the ZDZ but don't quote me on this.
You should be looking at the ZDZ 50 NG and not the ZDZ 60 for proper comparison. The NG is lighter then the 60 and makes more power.
Roger
The cheapest I beleive is the ZDZ but don't quote me on this.
You should be looking at the ZDZ 50 NG and not the ZDZ 60 for proper comparison. The NG is lighter then the 60 and makes more power.
Roger
12-27-2003 | 01:43 PM
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From: MT Vernon,
WA
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
Greetings fellow addicts,
If service is at all important to you, and unless you think you won't ever have a engine problem (no one does on a brand new engine), the get the DA-50 without a doubt.
All are fine engines, clearly.
But DA has the best service of any of the above companies, hands down.
I just ordered mine last week and they treated me like I was the only customer they ever had.
I have never been treated that special in all my hobby purchases, combined.
Felt real good, too.
And since then I haven't wondered once "did I make the right purchase"?
It pinched a wee bit, the few extra bucks, for sure.
But just telling all my flying buddys, their overall response was YOU DOG!
I liked that.
You will, too.
If service is at all important to you, and unless you think you won't ever have a engine problem (no one does on a brand new engine), the get the DA-50 without a doubt.
All are fine engines, clearly.
But DA has the best service of any of the above companies, hands down.
I just ordered mine last week and they treated me like I was the only customer they ever had.
I have never been treated that special in all my hobby purchases, combined.
Felt real good, too.
And since then I haven't wondered once "did I make the right purchase"?
It pinched a wee bit, the few extra bucks, for sure.
But just telling all my flying buddys, their overall response was YOU DOG!
I liked that.
You will, too.
12-27-2003 | 01:56 PM
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From: Glen Robertson, ON, CANADA
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
I agree that DA has a good reputation for service, but to say the best, then I presume you have dealt with the others in some form to be able to compare.
12-27-2003 | 02:43 PM
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From: MT Vernon,
WA
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
Since you asked,
Well I called every other manufacture/rep company and asked their service departments many questions regarding parts availability, service turn around time and other pertinent questions. I then searched the database here at RCU and compiled everyone else's opinions/facts regarding same.
Since I'm not much of a gambler, especially when I have made, from time to time less than stellar purchases because I didn't do proper homework, I chose DA for the above reasons.
Took me a couple of weeks doing the homework, but I am completely confidant that I made the right decision.
I also ended up buying the very best, something I hadn't done before because I was always trying to save a few bucks chasing the ever popular "value".
I didn't want this time to loose potentially a thousand or more dollars because I had to save a hundred on the engine choice.
Now I"m doing the same research on servos, and I won't try to save 10 or 15 dollars there either.
I learned from most of you here that the stakes are much higher when you get to this class airplane, and I do not have a endless hobby budget to be able to afford the same mistakes I made on my smaller class planes.
Since I havn't had a crash due to pilot error in over a year, I'm making damn skippy sure I won't have an equiptment failure or be stuck waiting a month or more during my prime flying season waiting on parts.
But that's just me.
Your results may vary.
Well I called every other manufacture/rep company and asked their service departments many questions regarding parts availability, service turn around time and other pertinent questions. I then searched the database here at RCU and compiled everyone else's opinions/facts regarding same.
Since I'm not much of a gambler, especially when I have made, from time to time less than stellar purchases because I didn't do proper homework, I chose DA for the above reasons.
Took me a couple of weeks doing the homework, but I am completely confidant that I made the right decision.
I also ended up buying the very best, something I hadn't done before because I was always trying to save a few bucks chasing the ever popular "value".
I didn't want this time to loose potentially a thousand or more dollars because I had to save a hundred on the engine choice.
Now I"m doing the same research on servos, and I won't try to save 10 or 15 dollars there either.
I learned from most of you here that the stakes are much higher when you get to this class airplane, and I do not have a endless hobby budget to be able to afford the same mistakes I made on my smaller class planes.
Since I havn't had a crash due to pilot error in over a year, I'm making damn skippy sure I won't have an equiptment failure or be stuck waiting a month or more during my prime flying season waiting on parts.
But that's just me.
Your results may vary.
ORIGINAL: aerografixs
I agree that DA has a good reputation for service, but to say the best, then I presume you have dealt with the others in some form to be able to compare.
I agree that DA has a good reputation for service, but to say the best, then I presume you have dealt with the others in some form to be able to compare.
12-27-2003 | 03:56 PM
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From: Glen Robertson, ON, CANADA
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
Thanks for the answer. You did your homework. But I beg to differ in what you consider the best engine. A very good engine to be sure, but the best might be an over statement.
You will get the same answer from different owners of different engines.
Not too long ago, the saying was if you want a good 100cc engine, get a ZDZ 80 single.
Now they have the 100 NG (Better) and also in the 50 cc class, you also have the NG series.
Don't get me wrong, I only hear of good things about DA, but then that's what I hear about BME, and ZDZ and 3W, it depends who owns them.
Roger
You will get the same answer from different owners of different engines.
Not too long ago, the saying was if you want a good 100cc engine, get a ZDZ 80 single.
Now they have the 100 NG (Better) and also in the 50 cc class, you also have the NG series.
Don't get me wrong, I only hear of good things about DA, but then that's what I hear about BME, and ZDZ and 3W, it depends who owns them.
Roger
12-27-2003 | 07:00 PM
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From: MT Vernon,
WA
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
Believe me when I tell you I would be PROUD to own ANY ZDZ, or BME engine, I really would. The ZDZ 50NG was runner up, in fact.
Initially I disregarded DA, because I thought "aw, I can't afford a DA" and spent most of my research on ZDZ and BME and even Brison too, got a thorough examination. The most power wasn't even my consideration, it was the WHOLE, COMPLETE package that made my decision. DA was more $$, but less than $75.00 more. Seventy five? Hell even I can do that.
Whereas with a plane, spare parts availability isn't as paramount to me as an engine. Parts on a plane can be made, or in a pinch made to work to keep a plane flying, albeit not your first choice on looks, doable all the same.
On an engine, no parts, no fly, period.
I can (but won't) tell you a story or two about a poor soul who waited June and July on a part from one of the other 3 "big mfg's" to get his engine back in the air. He was an IMAC flier and didn't have a back up airplane, so he then became a judge and spectator. (Not amused he was, as you can imagine).
Had I done this right, I would have made charts and graphs to prove my point. The complete, overall best engine came to be the DA for serviceability, customer service and parts availability.
I'm not here to play devils advocate, but fact is I may have a hiccup or two during this learning curve. I know I'm a very good pilot, I know how to save my plane in insane attitudes, and other "oh ****e" moments while still keeping my head about me.
This time I'm learning from others more talented and with deeper pockets than mine, and learning from their mistakes...(and success) as well.
You MUST factor in parts availability and service turnaround time when making this big of a purchase.
Did you know that after owning a DA, if there is a improvement in your engine or updated part, that DA will upgrade it for you at NO CHARGE?
I didn't.
3 guys I read of sent their engines back for something else, (I don't recall what for now) and when their engines were shipped back to them (in 10 days, in August) DA had gone ahead and updated their engines at no charge.
FREE!
That sealed it for me.
Best engine.
Yup, best.
Overall best.
I'd still own a ZDZ or BME or Brison in a moment.
Just not THIS moment.
Initially I disregarded DA, because I thought "aw, I can't afford a DA" and spent most of my research on ZDZ and BME and even Brison too, got a thorough examination. The most power wasn't even my consideration, it was the WHOLE, COMPLETE package that made my decision. DA was more $$, but less than $75.00 more. Seventy five? Hell even I can do that.
Whereas with a plane, spare parts availability isn't as paramount to me as an engine. Parts on a plane can be made, or in a pinch made to work to keep a plane flying, albeit not your first choice on looks, doable all the same.
On an engine, no parts, no fly, period.
I can (but won't) tell you a story or two about a poor soul who waited June and July on a part from one of the other 3 "big mfg's" to get his engine back in the air. He was an IMAC flier and didn't have a back up airplane, so he then became a judge and spectator. (Not amused he was, as you can imagine).
Had I done this right, I would have made charts and graphs to prove my point. The complete, overall best engine came to be the DA for serviceability, customer service and parts availability.
I'm not here to play devils advocate, but fact is I may have a hiccup or two during this learning curve. I know I'm a very good pilot, I know how to save my plane in insane attitudes, and other "oh ****e" moments while still keeping my head about me.
This time I'm learning from others more talented and with deeper pockets than mine, and learning from their mistakes...(and success) as well.
You MUST factor in parts availability and service turnaround time when making this big of a purchase.
Did you know that after owning a DA, if there is a improvement in your engine or updated part, that DA will upgrade it for you at NO CHARGE?
I didn't.
3 guys I read of sent their engines back for something else, (I don't recall what for now) and when their engines were shipped back to them (in 10 days, in August) DA had gone ahead and updated their engines at no charge.
FREE!
That sealed it for me.
Best engine.
Yup, best.
Overall best.
I'd still own a ZDZ or BME or Brison in a moment.
Just not THIS moment.
12-27-2003 | 07:03 PM
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From: Glen Robertson, ON, CANADA
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
ORIGINAL: BackAfter30
Believe me when I tell you I would be PROUD to own ANY ZDZ, or BME engine, I really would. The ZDZ 50NG was runner up, in fact.
Initially I disregarded DA, because I thought "aw, I can't afford a DA" and spent most of my research on ZDZ and BME and even Brison too, got a thorough examination. The most power wasn't even my consideration, it was the WHOLE, COMPLETE package that made my decision. DA was more $$, but less than $75.00 more. Seventy five? Hell even I can do that.
Whereas with a plane, spare parts availability isn't as paramount to me as an engine. Parts on a plane can be made, or in a pinch made to work to keep a plane flying, albeit not your first choice on looks, doable all the same.
On an engine, no parts, no fly, period.
I can (but won't) tell you a story or two about a poor soul who waited June and July on a part from one of the other 3 "big mfg's" to get his engine back in the air. He was an IMAC flier and didn't have a back up airplane, so he then became a judge and spectator. (Not amused he was, as you can imagine).
Had I done this right, I would have made charts and graphs to prove my point. The complete, overall best engine came to be the DA for serviceability, customer service and parts availability.
I'm not here to play devils advocate, but fact is I may have a hiccup or two during this learning curve. I know I'm a very good pilot, I know how to save my plane in insane attitudes, and other "oh ****e" moments while still keeping my head about me.
This time I'm learning from others more talented and with deeper pockets than mine, and learning from their mistakes...(and success) as well.
You MUST factor in parts availability and service turnaround time when making this big of a purchase.
Did you know that after owning a DA, if there is a improvement in your engine or updated part, that DA will upgrade it for you at NO CHARGE?
I didn't.
3 guys I read of sent their engines back for something else, (I don't recall what for now) and when their engines were shipped back to them (in 10 days, in August) DA had gone ahead and updated their engines at no charge.
FREE!
That sealed it for me.
Best engine.
Yup, best.
Overall best.
I'd still own a ZDZ or BME or Brison in a moment.
Just not THIS moment.
Believe me when I tell you I would be PROUD to own ANY ZDZ, or BME engine, I really would. The ZDZ 50NG was runner up, in fact.
Initially I disregarded DA, because I thought "aw, I can't afford a DA" and spent most of my research on ZDZ and BME and even Brison too, got a thorough examination. The most power wasn't even my consideration, it was the WHOLE, COMPLETE package that made my decision. DA was more $$, but less than $75.00 more. Seventy five? Hell even I can do that.
Whereas with a plane, spare parts availability isn't as paramount to me as an engine. Parts on a plane can be made, or in a pinch made to work to keep a plane flying, albeit not your first choice on looks, doable all the same.
On an engine, no parts, no fly, period.
I can (but won't) tell you a story or two about a poor soul who waited June and July on a part from one of the other 3 "big mfg's" to get his engine back in the air. He was an IMAC flier and didn't have a back up airplane, so he then became a judge and spectator. (Not amused he was, as you can imagine).
Had I done this right, I would have made charts and graphs to prove my point. The complete, overall best engine came to be the DA for serviceability, customer service and parts availability.
I'm not here to play devils advocate, but fact is I may have a hiccup or two during this learning curve. I know I'm a very good pilot, I know how to save my plane in insane attitudes, and other "oh ****e" moments while still keeping my head about me.
This time I'm learning from others more talented and with deeper pockets than mine, and learning from their mistakes...(and success) as well.
You MUST factor in parts availability and service turnaround time when making this big of a purchase.
Did you know that after owning a DA, if there is a improvement in your engine or updated part, that DA will upgrade it for you at NO CHARGE?
I didn't.
3 guys I read of sent their engines back for something else, (I don't recall what for now) and when their engines were shipped back to them (in 10 days, in August) DA had gone ahead and updated their engines at no charge.
FREE!
That sealed it for me.
Best engine.
Yup, best.
Overall best.
I'd still own a ZDZ or BME or Brison in a moment.
Just not THIS moment.
Regards
Roger
12-28-2003 | 12:06 PM
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From: The Woodlands, TX
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
Hey guys, did Sean get his in the air yesterday. I'm putting one together with the same specs as Sean's. Curious what it took to balance and flight report. Didn't see the post until this morning or would've made a point to get to Sportflyers for the maiden.
Thanks,
Mike Wickizer
Thanks,
Mike Wickizer
12-28-2003 | 01:01 PM
#14
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RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
good thing you didn't. we have yet to crank it up. should be ready to fire this afternoon....weather permitting. looks like it may balance with rudd. servo up front....although he is using big nicad batt. packs for ignition, servos, and smoke...all mounted up front.
12-28-2003 | 04:02 PM
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From: MT Vernon,
WA
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
Just a quick point,
I do hear less and less good things about 3W these days. Seems to me it was their market share to loose, and they did. Remember when Nintendo owned the world of home videogame consoles? The got somewhat pompous, and arrogant and it wasn't long before Sony just blew by them. It was Ninetendo's to loose, and boy O boy did they.
I think it's anyones market, now.
If the other manafactures would step up, provide first class service and "right now" parts availabilty, you could just like your favorite brand/flavor with COMPLETE confidence.
I'm sure the next time I find a swearheart deal on a ZDZ 50NG I'll swoop and buy it. The Double Vision Bipe is talkin' to me...
I do hear less and less good things about 3W these days. Seems to me it was their market share to loose, and they did. Remember when Nintendo owned the world of home videogame consoles? The got somewhat pompous, and arrogant and it wasn't long before Sony just blew by them. It was Ninetendo's to loose, and boy O boy did they.
I think it's anyones market, now.
If the other manafactures would step up, provide first class service and "right now" parts availabilty, you could just like your favorite brand/flavor with COMPLETE confidence.
I'm sure the next time I find a swearheart deal on a ZDZ 50NG I'll swoop and buy it. The Double Vision Bipe is talkin' to me...
ORIGINAL: aerografixs
Don't get me wrong, I only hear of good things about DA, but then that's what I hear about BME, and ZDZ and 3W, it depends who owns them.
Roger
Don't get me wrong, I only hear of good things about DA, but then that's what I hear about BME, and ZDZ and 3W, it depends who owns them.
Roger
12-28-2003 | 08:31 PM
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From: Gatineau,
QC, CANADA
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
I agree with Warren!
I have a ZDZ 80 and just love that motor, never owned a DA, or BME for that matter, but good engines too. Have heard about costomer relation problems with BME, DA is excellent for that, and ZDZ is good I feel, however just ordered a Brison 2.4 for my very light Midwest Extra 300. they seemed like nice people there! Not state of the art motors, but solid, light, and make good power. But very reliable and last forever. And not to expensive!
The best part is picking what to buy, so many options
.
I have a ZDZ 80 and just love that motor, never owned a DA, or BME for that matter, but good engines too. Have heard about costomer relation problems with BME, DA is excellent for that, and ZDZ is good I feel, however just ordered a Brison 2.4 for my very light Midwest Extra 300. they seemed like nice people there! Not state of the art motors, but solid, light, and make good power. But very reliable and last forever. And not to expensive!
The best part is picking what to buy, so many options
.
12-30-2003 | 08:15 PM
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From: Alta Loma, CA
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
The Brison 3.2 has great "Bang for the buck". Makes respectable power, ticks over like a Swiss clock, and will run forever.
01-01-2004 | 02:57 AM
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From: Woodlands,
TX
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
Well, thanks for the opinions everyone. I asked arround the field, flew a couple of planes with DA50's that came out at about the same weight as my projected weight and decided.
I mounted the DA50 tonight. Cant argue with watching a new one out of box start up and run no adjustments. There was one locally at LHS so I picked it up and am currently working on getting it tucked in the cowel.
In other news, HAPPY NEW YEAR. Yes, I installed my engine at 1AM 1/1/04
Ian
I mounted the DA50 tonight. Cant argue with watching a new one out of box start up and run no adjustments. There was one locally at LHS so I picked it up and am currently working on getting it tucked in the cowel.
In other news, HAPPY NEW YEAR. Yes, I installed my engine at 1AM 1/1/04
Ian
01-01-2004 | 10:02 PM
#20
My Feedback: (1)
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
Ian,
Sean finally flew the edge today (Happy new year?) with the DA. Very nice. The plane is just too good for the price. It may need a bit of right thrust and his tucks to the belly a bit in knife edge, however, very smooth for precision IMAC and very 3D capable. That motor is sweet. New slimeline smoke pump also worked flawlessly. I was allowed to fly it once and the way it sets up for landing is just gorgeous. He also used the new JR8611's all the way around, which may be overkill, but they are very fast and powerful on 6V.
Sean will be at the sportflyers field with it on Sat. (we have a club meeting at 10am), you are welcome to come out and fly with us.
Regards,
Mark
Sean finally flew the edge today (Happy new year?) with the DA. Very nice. The plane is just too good for the price. It may need a bit of right thrust and his tucks to the belly a bit in knife edge, however, very smooth for precision IMAC and very 3D capable. That motor is sweet. New slimeline smoke pump also worked flawlessly. I was allowed to fly it once and the way it sets up for landing is just gorgeous. He also used the new JR8611's all the way around, which may be overkill, but they are very fast and powerful on 6V.
Sean will be at the sportflyers field with it on Sat. (we have a club meeting at 10am), you are welcome to come out and fly with us.
Regards,
Mark
01-07-2004 | 11:08 PM
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From: Woodlands,
TX
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
Dean has been flying his at our field (cant remember his SN now...) so I've gotten to see one with that setup flying already. Im impressed, though Dean thinks he has his CG too far back for IMAC. His 3D sure is impressive however!
01-22-2004 | 01:09 AM
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From: Woodlands,
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RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
Its been flown finally. Love my DA50... power is awesome. I've got a power to weight ratio that is somewhat phenominal, and this is with a vrappy 22x10 pro zinger. Flight performance is incredible and the uplines that I can pull are awesome. DA = way to go!
01-22-2004 | 12:27 PM
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From: NW Indiana
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
ORIGINAL: aerografixs
You should be looking at the ZDZ 50 NG and not the ZDZ 60 for proper comparison. The NG is lighter then the 60 and makes more power.
Roger
You should be looking at the ZDZ 50 NG and not the ZDZ 60 for proper comparison. The NG is lighter then the 60 and makes more power.
Roger
01-22-2004 | 01:29 PM
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From: Glen Robertson, ON, CANADA
RE: DA vs BME vs ZDZ for Wild Hare 540T
ORIGINAL: EJB
The 50 makes MORE power than the 60? Have any numbers to back that up?
ORIGINAL: aerografixs
You should be looking at the ZDZ 50 NG and not the ZDZ 60 for proper comparison. The NG is lighter then the 60 and makes more power.
Roger
You should be looking at the ZDZ 50 NG and not the ZDZ 60 for proper comparison. The NG is lighter then the 60 and makes more power.
Roger
Roger
