weight does not matter ---OK -
If you are after yeehah performance tho - try this:
borrow some reasonably accurate fish scales - the Berkley ones are usually quite good .
Now weigh the fueled up model -using some twine to support it
Now run that sucker flat out and do a pull test - see how the pull test compares to the weight test.
I can make you a moneyback gar-en fu--tee that unless the pull test exceeds the weight test by at least 10%- you won't have a decent 3D performer.
We go for 2-1 power to weight by the way ---(200% pull to weight comparison) and get pretty close on some - Our 80 powered 18 lb Giles was close as was our 40 powered 11 lb model.
On the electrics - 1.5 -1 is a piece of cake now .
my 13 oz models have thrust of 24 ounces.
performance from slow hovers into rolls -flops onto back then front - are made easy because the power to weight can correct any tendency to fall out.
If'n you don't do this stuff - then the lower power to weight may be plenty for your flying.
I sure don't want to put down anyone's idea of "performance" - just telling what I see .

Dick,
I don't think anyone said weight doesn't matter, just trying to compare the weights of two seperate models is a waste of time. If the CA's are heavier than stated yet the still fly great what's the problem? To compare wing loading of a 25% to a 35% for example isn't worthwhile in my opinion because the larger planes can have higher wing loading yet still "feel" lighter on the sticks. Am I wrong on this?

The usable loading of a typical 25% -vs-35% is profound.
a really good wing loading for a 25% scale model of a 330L is about 23-26 oz ft.
On the 35% version -it jumps to 30-33 oz ft.
Some guys have planes which fall way over/under these envelopes-and they like em.
So obviously , it is subjective.
Our own subjective opinion is that weight and power are everything in an aerobatic setup.
The envelopes noted, are what we like.

here the pik for Goekeli

Thanks Mike!!!

Joe

no prob

Since I started the "weight thing", I would like to make one further comment and then I will leave you fellas alone. For my style of flying, I am not ounce crazy. I perfer to have a bit mor substance.

A perfect example is the Aeroworks 27% Ultimate. The plane was (what I thought to be) a great flyer! However, the firewall would flex with the throttle (can you say thin wood, again for the sake of weight) and when talking to Rocco, he told me to be very careful when picking it up. It seems he (yes the owner of the company) has broken through the sheeting on more than one occation, just by picking it up.

On all of the Aeroworks comments that I have made, I continue to say what a great flyer it was--and yet I sold it after 10 or so flights. (No honeymoon at all here, Mike) I have heard ALL OF THE "they are built to fly and not crash comments" I care to.

Bottom line: Different strokes (I'll take a Miles Reed design every day over a stack of toothpicks and CA) I just happen to not fly in competition and do not need the 1/2 lb less to be happy. But please don't try to convince me that I am flying a "dog" because it weighs 2 lbs more than what Chip Hyde is flying. Honeymoon or not, I love my 2.3 and Brison.

And yet another positive comment.

It's always flattering when someone like Dudley Dooright of the Yukon follows me from thread to thread to comment on what I say. I never said anything directly to you before you decided to pass judgement on me did I?

Hey Guys. I dont have any experience with the 2.3 and DA50 yet as I hve not maidened mine yet but maybe to lay some of the doubt over the 3d performance you could look at the video of Jason Schulman flying one on the Comp ARF site or speak to the people that are ACTUALLY flying them to see what thier opinion is.As soon as mine is in the air I will definately post AUW etc and an opinion. After all the guys I spoke to and seeing the video I went with a DA50 on a tuned pipe. I know Jason is a top flyer but power is power in anyones hands,seemed pretty good to me. IMO.
Cheers Matt

go for the big banger mate (dont know much about them though)

wait for it------

Hey flatlandmike, the couple of 2.3 extra that I know of in my area are both around the 19.5 pound mark with the DA50 and pipe,cant remember the exact AUW but I know they are no heavier then 19.5.

When I was down at Punta Gorda in Feb flying in the JR Challenge,, Huff was there and also brought his new Comp Arf extra with the da 50 on pipe and flew it and let others fly it after the contest.. I was verry impressed. the 50 on pipe on that size of airplane had no problems doing the IMAC style of manuf at all

Randy
rcmodelgraphics.com

I watched a video of it - and it looked very good .
For " El Blasto" type 3D- can use more power .
PS- do not do it if you are not familiar with using lots of throttle control!

El Blasto!...that's just great...can I use that term, Dick?
Too funny....true nevertheless, but that just struck me funny....

Sure -just pay royalty of one nudge per snicker -

Excelpoint thanx for the heads up i still would like da to come out with a 75 sooner rather than later for that "El Blasto" power but heck it wouldnt matter i cant buy another plane or engine for a while [] still trying to replace my 28% extra after that ill prob save up for sommin in the 31 to 33 % area lol still an extra

No worries flatlandmike, I will do some weighing of mine this weekend and let everyone no the results. I spoke to another guy who has on today with nearly the exact setup im using(batt etc) and his came out at 19lb on the dot,hopfully mine will be around that. I'd love a DA75 myself when and if they ever release one.