otterdriver

I will have to agree with Doug about the unlimited I think they are going to be pretty busy for the judge's to keep up with and where did all those 1/4 rolls come from I liked 04's better, Mark

Desertrat

My Feedback: (2)

Oh. Sorry then. Proposal A is similar to Sat Unk. Proposal B is similar to Fri Unk. I whined about both, but admittedly more about Fridays, by Saturday I was just numb.

I was sure hoping this years intermediate would have let up a little so that some of the rediculously large Sportsman class would consider moving up. Oh well. Time to burn some gas and enjoy the challenge. Hey Ryan, you gonna move up join me in intermediate then? (It'll make you a better pilot)

Roger

Ryans Rebel

My Feedback: (12)

You bet. Sportsman is a thing of the past for me. I was practicing that inverted roller on Sunday. Needs quite a bit of work too!

Ryan

Silent-AV8R

The Friday Intermediate Unknown has nothing to do with the 2005 Proposal B. I know who wrote each of them and they were not done by the same person. The Saturday Unknown and the Proposal A were done by the same person.

Blow n Go

Aresti.......If you are invovled in working on the sequences, you need to listen to the inputs you are getting. Duane put together some outstanding sequences for the SC region this year. I value his comments. Here are my 2 cents........

A single cross box with no return is not a good idea. It may help the guys who can't fly a straight line, but half the sequence will be drawn in too tight or pushed out to far for those flying the sequence properly.

CJ

Andy540T

My Feedback: (9)

Why is it that the Basic class has not been mentioned yet? Is it that no one cares about this class? I have heard a number of people make that statement before. I flew SCAT last year and truthfully SCAT made the Basic class one of the most important classes there. Having said that, the basic sequences, other than the !QUOT!A!QUOT! sequence 180 degree turn, look almost identical, not much to decide on there. Why doesn't it include any inverted maneuvers? I stressed all last year learning how to draw a straight (well almost straight) line while inverted. Sorry if I seem whiny, but I WILL be flying this class and being new to IMAC have some concerns over what others have told me.

Thank you,

Andy

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

Andy,
The reason I moved up was because Basic is not take seriously as a competition class.
If I won (BIG IF) I wanted to be recognized like any other class winner.
I moved to Sportsman with to me is the FIRST class.

Silent-AV8R

It was up to the BoD to select the finalists from the sequences that were submitted. If there is an issue with what was selected, that needs to be taken up with the BoD. I had not part in that process. As far as the figure in questio, it is not a problem and had been flown many times. I will grant that there CAN be a problem if the pilot chooses to fly too large of a radius at the top. I will also say that the concept that you are talking about is sound, but does not apply as strongly in this case as it would to say a 90 degree roller with no return.

Silent-AV8R

IMAC does allow any inverted flight in Basic. They say it is too difficult. I do not agree. I also strongly oppose the 1-turn spin. Hard to do and hard to judge. It has no place in Basic. But I had no say in what was picked. IMAC has slightly different criteria for sequence design than did SCAT.

rcplanefan

My Feedback: (2)

I have to disagree CJ. A cross-box humpty can be made very tight over the top. 99% of the time when you pull vertical, you will be able to decide very quickly if going out or coming in is best for you. Now a 180 degree roller, figure-N...those are different animals. Cross-box humpty - no biggie.

Ken

dave_anderson

My Feedback: (47)

Wasn't Tucson where the Sportsman Unknown had three uplines before they had a downline to bring them back down to earth?
[/quote]


YES! I had time to hand my transmitter to my caller, go for a coke and a burger, eat them and come back in time for the pull out. We even had a 2 point roll at the top of a loop, 5 miles high! WHEW! Thanks goodness we fly big planes!

Ryans Rebel

My Feedback: (12)

After flying Fridays unknown and seeing just how long the downline was after the stall turn, I truly considered adding fuel line between the tank & carb after recieving Saturdays unknown. The downlines were incredibly long!

Ryan

dave_anderson

My Feedback: (47)

I thought it was a little comedic. Just another part of a great experience!

UNLDAVE

My Feedback: (2)

Hi All,

We went and flew a few gallons a piece yesterday Here in Nor-Cal...Worked on the Int. proposals for a while.. Both of the proposals aren't that Bad....Although to make them look good they have to be flown BIG... The cross box humpty out bound results in the pilot having to learn to do the 90degree roller inbound....Something different...GOOD!!

Both of the advanced proposals are Difficult but fun ...I REALLY like B!!!

Just a few more days till they're finalized and we can really start burning some gas!!!

Can't wait for Phoenix,feb05!!!!!!! Dave

Silent-AV8R

You know, if you can't say anything bad maybe you ought not say anything at all[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

10channel-delete

wow, who is this aresti2004...sounds like an insider to me. basic not a competitive class? say it ain't so!! a guy invests in a airplane, spends several flights making it fly straight, finds a caller, practices, learns the rules, and focuses on disciplined flying, buring lots of fuel, and and someone (in contrast to the imac rules, btw) says that person isn't a competitor? wow.[sm=thumbdown.gif]

Silent-AV8R

OK, this looks and smells like flame bait, but I'll bite?? What exactly are you referring to??

Clearly you have a mistaken idea of my position. I am one of the few who absolutely views Basic as fully competitive. I am one who is constantly bringing up the point that Basic should not be given short shrift. The rules clearly define 5 competitive classes, and yet many in IMAC do not seem to think this means anything. I am applaled that Basic is not part of the NATS and it disturbs me that all IMAC regions do not even track Basic points and award a Basic Trophy at the end of the year.

So help me out, what are you referring to??

Andy540T

My Feedback: (9)

I have to defend Aresti. I know from first hand knowledge that he definitely upholds the thinking that the Basic class is the most important class for defining skill. I have heard him say a number of times that Basic is where pilots should develop and when they are ready move up to sportsman. His contest have always treated Basic the same as the rest of the classes.

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

I agree.
Basic should be a equally treated class. Region Points, Nats etc...

10channel-delete

sorry for the confusion, my position echoes that of sir aresti, and the post was the result of my unfamiliarity with the RC Universe, to which i am new. i have also found imac's position regarding the exclusion of basic to be absolutely indefensible, unsupported by their own rules, and the result of the lack of basic pilot representation on the imac board and in the respective regions. i would love to see imac set the precedent of not only honoring basic at the nats, but also discouraging further exclusions at the regional level.

rcplanefan

My Feedback: (2)

Regarding the issue of Basic points at the regional level. This has been discussed and debated to a great extent in the past, and the current system (at least in the NC region) has been put in place to encourage new pilots to give IMAC a try. When we had a points system in place in the NC region a couple of years ago, Basic was a very intimidating class for the newcomers. There were guys in that class who were very skilled and were attending contests solely for the purpose of gaining points and winning the season's championship. The only problem with this is that it is very discouraging for a "new" IMAC pilot to show up with a 40-sized (not 40%) airplane, and to be competing against very skilled pilots with 35 and 40% airplanes. And I do mean VERY SKILLED. So the points championship for Basic was srubbed to encourage participation from more folks. Is it working? I think it is here, but I don't know about the rest of the country.

OK, having said that, there is no question that we need to continue to foster competition in the Basic class. The Basic class should be treated BETTER than the other classes when it comes to flight time, help, encouragement, whatever. In our region, we give out about 7 or 8 awards at the end of the year for pilots who flew Basic in at least one contest. All of the pilots' names from throughout the season are put into a hat, and they are drawn at random at the end of the year. Prizes are mailed to those who aren't present. So we definitely need to encourage participation in the Basic class, we need to make sure the judging is fair, and we need to make sure these pilots get all the help they need to enjoy themselves and improve.

As for 10channels comments about the lack of representation of the Basic class on the IMAC board. Most pilots remain in Basic less that a full season (though this isn't always the case). Most of these pilots join IMAC during that season. I have never seen anyone this new to the organization run for a board position, but certainly they are eligible. Perhaps you could run for a Regionial Directorship at the end of the next season (nominations are closed for the upcoming year as of about 1 month ago) and then have more influence over these decisions. It would be great if there were more candidates to choose from! I can assure you though that just about every board member has flown in Basic sometime in the past (I flew in Basic 4 years ago), and the thoughts of new pilots are top-of-mind when discussing the Basic class. You may not agree with the decisions, but nobody is trying to shaft the Basic pilots.

Wayne is superhuman and his comments are irrelevant to the NORMAL new Basic pilot!

I can't speak for the Nats.

Ken

bhanley

I believe the reason that most Basic fliers move up in "less than one season" is rooted in the reasons given earlier in this thread. It is unforturnate that they do because you then have the situation in Sportsman that you described for your Basic approach of several years ago, ie, guys who are still wrestling with "Basic" skills who then must compete with highly skilled fliers with 35-40% equipment.

My opinion is that a fully included/vested Basic class is preferable to pushing people ahead too quickly into Sportsman simply because they want to feel like full members of the group. As for the problem you cite (guys hanging in a lower class to simply win....). I believe that peer pressure could do a lot to force those "skilled" fliers to move up to a more appropriate class and leave Basic for what it is properly intended to be - namely an intro group to encourage new participation in IMAC.

Having just completed a full year in Basic and having gotton much benefit from it, I would offer the following suggestions:
- Have an experienced guy in the region assigned as a mentor/contact for the newbie the first time the newbie enters a contest.
- Include Basic in the regional championships and in the Nats
- About mid way through the season start giving Basic an Unknown. Make it very simple, eg, just reorder the sequence slightly
- Make sure that in the conduct of the weekend that Basic doesn't get pushed aside in preference to other classes (I didn't experience this in the Northwest but reading seems to indicate that it does occur...)
- And a detail - change the name of the class - not a lot of guys want to talk about being in elementary school whatever the activity....

Yes - I am moving up. Hope this is helpful....
Bruce

Ryans Rebel

My Feedback: (12)

How a bout Novice? I believe this is the intro group in pattern.

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Actually.. the Novice class in pattern was changed to Basic because Novice gave a negative connotation to some.

I think the Basic class needs to be a full competitive class and require scale airplanes honestly. It used to be that the scale aerobatic airplanes were specialized things but things have changed. You can't go into any hobby store in the USA these days and NOT find some sort of IMAC legal airplane on the shelves. I really don't think the 'run what you have' idea is necessary anymore and it's time Basic become a recognized, fully competitive class.

As for the NATS, I truly wonder how many Basic pilots would travel to Muncie to compete? If you could demonstrate the numbers, then yeah, I'd include it, but I'd hate to have the class and then have 6 people show up, all local.

rmh

I really hope that whomever the guys are doing the Unlimited sequence , will look at a nice flowing pattern that can be held in close
frankly the last two years knowns were -in my opinion ugly.
The idea of upping the difficulty factor -which makes the pattern bigger yet and almost impossible to judge well at some points, is ludicrous.
I will compete this year but I would hope that someone in the voting booth looks at making the patterns pretty and in close .
who are they trying to please?