10channel-delete

dave, a sequence should satisfy three criteria: it has to be flyable, callable, and judgable. spacing of figures is critcal to meet those criteria. inadequate spacing means the figures are rushed, too much spacing and the pilots spend their time driving up and down the box - which makes aresti2004 angry. i haven't seen the new unlimited sequence, but i do know from years of sequence writing that an average k of 45 per figure is nuts - there's just way too much going on. not every figure in an unlimited sequene has to be a "unlimited" figure, a belly in hammer with a 4/8 on the upline is a pretty decent figure....it doesn't need roll elements hung all over it to be challenging. also, to add to what doug said, the toc sequences were 12- 14 figures per sequence, all were "forced" to a limit of 400k, and rollers "k factors" were increased from the fai k factors. so in reality, and i did calculate the ks on a toc sequence some years ago, they were well below 400, even with the increase in the number of figures. a lot can be said for a sequence that is moderate in difficulty, but can be judged critically.

Silent-AV8R

As I am so fond of saying, the best sequence to me is one that is easy to fly, but hard to fly well.

I am alsways amused when I hear a pilot say, "this is easy". Then later on I ask him how many 10's he got. The answer is usually ZERO!!

brweg

I know I'm not looking forward to judging unlimited in 2005.

My guess is until the judges qualified to judge unlimited get familiar with the sequence, you will see lots of impression judging in this class.

3D Joy

Does anybody knows why the K factor for rolling turns are so low in the advanced sequence ?? My opinion about these rollers is that few do them well and those that have the skill to do them well are not very advantaged. IMO this is the hardest maneuver of the sequence and it has the lowest K-factor.

Also with figures like the 10th, we may be going to see more 210cc engines in 40% planes...

Silent-AV8R

The K factors for all figures are derived from the FAI Aresti Aerobatic Catalog:

http://www.fai.org/aerobatics/catalog/

IMAC has gone back to using the K factors as published. FWIW, even the full scale guys argue about K factors. It provides a consistent method for calculating K factors for aerobatic sequences. Otherwise we are just making it up.

10channel-delete

3d, any previous "advantage" was arbitrary, as the IMAC board had raised the K on rollers to, in their opinion, better reflect the difficulty of the figures. while one can argue about the validity of the change, if it is going to be done, there is no reason to limit it to rollers and tailslides, as was the case. the easier thing is to use the Ks as written.

3D Joy

I would agree that a K-factor for a 90 degree rolling turn in intermediate be very low but in advanced, I would like to have much better scores due to a good roller than the guy that simply does not know how to do one, hence higher K-factor. That said, I will continue to try to do good rollers as I need to improve them but I will certainly look for other maneuvers as the ones to pratice so to get better overall scores.

If the K-factors have been increased for the rollers, then they must have been very low since the K-factor for advanced roller is only 13.

Anyway, I agree that the K-factors used should come from the FAI catalog so that eliminates the arguing. I was just wondering why some harder maneuvers pay less.

DMichael

My Feedback: (5)

OK, the weather here in this part of the country was unseasonably warm and calm so I was able to go out and fly the Unlimited sequence through 5 complete sequences and bits and pieces of the sequence a few other times. Overall feelings? Tougher than last year's sequence. Plenty of spots for deductions! Here are my thoughts by manuever:

1. Hammerhead, snap up, rolls down. Need to be careful on the hammers- easy to get zero if you misjudge, plus this particular one has has to be done at sufficient altitude so you can do the two half rolls on downline and still maintain enough altitude on exit so that your roller (#2) is done at a comfortable altitude.

2. 270 Roller, from inverted cross box; first roll out, then a half roll in on exit to upright. I've done many different rollers but not this particular one. Rollers are kind of funny to me- if I haven't flown that exact one it seems to take some getting used to to do well. It was fine, just not real good! This could be kept smaller with some effort. I'll need to put some time in on this one.......

3. Figure N. No big issues here. Need to end high so that you can do the down humpty that follows.

4. Down humpty. A cool looking manuever with the half outside loop coming toward the flightline at the bottom. Need to take the exit high so you can start the following spin and then finish the outside loop at sufficient atlitude. This and the next two manuevers are critical as far as exit/entry altitude.

5. Spin needs to be started and completed higher than "usual". I has a 3/4 outside loop at the end that sets you up for #5, a half outside loop that starts high and ends low.

6. Half outside loop- two snaps on entry then half loop. This is the final of the three manuevers where altitude is critical. You need to really be careful with 3, 4 and 5 so that you have enough room to do them all well. 3 has to end high so that you have room to end number 4 high so that you have room to do number 5 and maintain altitude.

7. Outside loop with opposite direction 1 1/2 snaps- first positive, second negative. Again, I never did one of these before and I enjoyed trying something new. Need to keep power on through snaps or you will just stop dead after second snap and loop will look ugly. Thank God the snaps are on top and not on the bottom......

8. Two negative snaps on inverted 45 upline, 5/8 outside loop with roll then opposite snap on downline. Need to take this one high enough so that, on your downline, you have room for roll then snap before drawing line and leveling off.

9. Lay down humpty. I liked this manuever. 3/4 roll on 45 leaves you in knife edge then opposite 1 1/4 snaps done in direction so that you don't have to struggle to maintain the 45. Cool.

10. Vertical line with rolls. After the first 9, this one is almost boring. I'm sure that, when flying in the contests, I'll be thinking "the tough part's already over" when I exit 9.

Sure hope the weather holds out, I need the practice!

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

Dave,

I have not flown the new sequence yet but did fly the two proposals.. I agree, harder than last year but I like the way this sequence looks on paper.
Hopefully I can get a flight or two in soon.. Im stuck in Dallas right now till the 17th... []

DMichael

My Feedback: (5)

Hey Wayne- hope you have some foamies or something to keep you busy...... I assume that the weather there is better than at home.

Sorry to hear about your situation. Give me as much notice as you can when you are coming into DC next time. If we can fly, we'll fly. If not, we'll see if we can catch a game, get some dinner, or something.

Dave

Silent-AV8R

In the past the K Factor for rollers was doubled. And increased by a factor of 1.5 fro tail slides. Now they are as published in the FAI Catalog.

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

Unfortunately, I have plenty to keep me busy but none of it is RC related.
I am in training for a new plane at work.
Classroom, sim, study is about it.

SQUARE ROOT

My Feedback: (33)

I started IMAC this year for the first time and as far as Basic being competitive I can say that I agree with Anna Wood. Without a doubt in the SW region it was VERY competitive. I flew in one competition where at the final round first place was up for grabs between four of us. The rest were very much in there including one young guy flying a 60 size plane. If I had been able to fly enough contests last year I would have taken a shot at the regional title. (Good Job Kelly Nichols) I thought that basic could have used simple unknowns, as has been said, to give the pilots a different look. It seems to separate those who know the routine and those who know how to fly their plane. I would like to move up next year so I can experience the unknown round, and maybe to experience being a Basic judge. however I am hesitant because Basic was so very competitive.???