Ask these guys what they think about it:

Chip Hyde
Frazer Briggs
Bill Hempel
Quique Somenzini
Mark Leseberg
Jason Shulman
Mike McConville
Jason Noll
Frank Noll
Sean McMurtry
Peter Goldsmith
And on and on....

The thing you will notice is that each and every one of these guys STARTED with precision aerobatics and then moved into 3D flying. Think about it.

All those folks are sponsored and I do understand that sponsors look at IMAC pilots to promote thier products. I'm not really interested in sponsorship or competition, only becoming a better pilot. I'll start practicing for IMAC and see if it benefits my flying....

Can anyone point me in the direction of some online videos of IMAC maneuvers that are considered to be high scoring?

I saw these http://extremeflightyak.shutupandfly...mac_videos.htm but I think Artesi didn't like it because the pilot was not doing basic the way he had wrote the sequence or something.

Anyways I would like a good example if there is one out there...

This so completely misses the point that it is clear that there is nowhere to go from here. How do you think they GOT sponsored?? From their 3D flying OR their precision aerobatics flying?? I'm guessing precision aerobatics. Might be wrong however.

Since it is clear that you have no interest in precision aerobatics, why keep beating a dead horse? Go out, bend the sticks over the edge of your TX and have a blast.

If I'm wrong, then go to some contests in your area. See what the deal is. Videos ain't going to do it for you.

Jeez.

It's about exposure.... that is the whole point of sponsorship.

At no point did I say I was not interested in precision aerobatics... sorry to ruffle your feathers so badly.

I don't fly 3D, but I do fly Aerobatics. I have about the same skill level in both (get the joke, No, I tried!)
I will say that 3D and flying Helicopters will force you to become quick and precise on the sticks quicker than precision aerobatics.
If J3D sets a level of expertise for himself then this is great and much needed in the 3D flying I have seen.

If he is doing rolling harriers in a straight line, not verying the altitude, pitch, or rate of roll while flying this straight line, then he is performing a maneuver that is just as difficult (if not more) than a one roll circle.

It takes the smootness of IMAC with the ability of 3d to make a top competition pilot. Weather judged or unjudged being able to fly a smooth sequence developes the potential of the pilot. This is weather 3ding or not. All the top pilots come from a pattern/IMAC background. If you watch long enough you can tell who has the extensive pattern background, IMAC background and who is just into 3d. So if you want to improve your rolling harriers 3ft off the deck then do some IMAC and you will understand.

I dont think sponsorship has any thing do do with it. I cant speak for everyone mentioned but I'm willing to bet almost everyone on that list fly precision because of its continuous challenge. Everyone on tha list also plays with 3D but doesnt take it real seriously. Flying precisely takes a lot more time, dedication practice etc.

Remember, My Grandmother can Torque roll (see first edition of 3D Flyer Mag for an explanation)

Thank you Mike. And God Bless your Red-Shirt wearing self for saying it!!!

This has been my point exactly!!

WEM - Team Halloween!![:@]

Just a little clarification in relation to the rolling harriers. If, while rolling, the aircraft is descending, you simply add some throttle to bring the aircraft up. Really simple to do. It is also a timing and coordination trick which is rather easy.

In a rolling circle (no matter how many rolls, as long as they are COUNTED and DETERMINED before the roller even starts) if you want to gain some altitude you may need to input elevator, up or down and/or rudder left or right. You have four distinc possibilities and combination of each also. Soooo gaining altitude is no simple thing, it is a combination of all disponible inputs in a controlled manner, not timed manner.

To me it sounds as you are saying that a rolling harrier is easier than a rolling circle!

That is exactly what I was trying to say... I am not the guy who started the thread, I am the one who said that one roll rolling circles were the hardest maneuver I ever tried.

I agree with Mike McConville. The most intense form of concentration I have experienced is flying in competition. Anyone can fly an IMAC sequence. And any good 3D pilot can fly an IMAC Advanced or Unlimited sequence. The real challenge comes not from just flying the sequence, but in flying it well enough to win. Competitive flying is a whole different ball game. I have fun flying 3D stuff, but pretty much with my foamies since I don't get much more out of it whether the plane is big or small. However, for me, nothing beats the challenge of trying to execute a string of flights with enough consistent precision to eek out a win over guys that fly as well or better than I do. I personally enjoy working on my airframe and radio setup to get the max precision performance out of my plane. It's just another facet to this sport that intrigues me.

More to the point - if you start gaining or losing altitude - you start LOSING points !! The difficulty lies in NOT gaining or losing altitude.

NOT gaining or losing altitude in a roller is only ONE criteria for KEEPing your score at a perfect 10.

There are many other ways of losing points while performing a roller ( or any of the other figures in the Arestic catalogue).

Trying to KEEP that perfect 10 for EACH maneuver in your sequence is the difficulty, the challenge.

Understanding the basics, the guidlines, on HOW to KEEP that "perfect 10" is a challenge in itself.

Perhaps a better understanding of how the flying is JUDGED in IMAC might give you a better understanding of the answer you are looking for.

Go to the IMAC website at http://www.mini-iac.com

Go to the Rules section and download the Flying and Judging Guide.

Read that and begin to learn the criteria of how a flight is judged and scored in IMAC.

It might help you get a better feel for what IMAC, and precision aerobatics is all about,

Bob Hudson, IMAC 1865

In the 4 years I have flown IMAC, I got only one 10, it was on a spin which was amazingly perfect. The judge said to me that he could not give me a 10 (that is not common practice) but he had no reason not to.

Now that I fly advanced, I rarely get 9 or better but never 10s.

If the judge didn't give you a 10, then his judging ability is a zero.
If there's nothing to downgrade by the rules, it's a 10.

I've never flown a maneuver that deserved a 10.

that's very deep insight Wayne.

seriously, as a pilot striving for a ten is like striving for perfection. we may never acheive it but we are constantly driven to achieve that "10". I am with Wayne though, I would probably never give myself a 10 on anything! I know what mistakes I make

as a judge, if no perceived downgrade is observed then by all means the manuver deserves a 10. I've given 10's before and not only to Unlimited pilots either. oh, and I hate hearing a judge say "I couldn't find anything wrong, but I just can't give a 10"

Hubb

btw, why do I like flying IMAC?!? for the comraderie above all else. as far as the flying goes, you have to be driven within yourself to be a better pilot. sequence flying does that for me. most of the local club guys will never "get it", especially since they watch me practice a string of manuvers a hundred times a week just to fly 3 or 4 rounds on the weekends.

Same here but I've never argued with a judge who gave me one .

Back to the original question...

I fly IMAC for many reasons.

1) IMAC greatly improves your ability to control the airplane in any attitude[8D].

2) Kind of a subset of 1, you learn to USE THE RUDDER! (to keep the airplane straight)

3) Winning is fun!

4) Just do me a favor, and listen to aresti2004... he's right,

Matt

P.S. aresti2004, who are you. you sound very familiar

If more people would simply take this sage advice the world would be a better place [&:]

After this past weekend, I guess I just like spending money to be shown just how bad I fly!
I would prefer for a judge to tell me that my flying looks like the south end of a north moving cow (and give me 8's) Then to tell me that my flying was good and give me 3's. I did have one judge, a lady I hold in high esteem in the SE, once told me that my wings were never level through the entire sequence. The highest I could have gotten was a 9 to start with. While I could not fix that (long story) I did value the advice.

All flying looks "good" when you have no idea what the pilot was attempting to do. Even as a non-judge I can tell when a loop is crap for the most part - especially when I know a perfect loop was called for in the sequence etc... same as for a rolling cirlce etc...

It's very difficult to tell if someone is a good flyer with 3-D if they can do some semblence of the basic manauever. Maybe they ARE flying the manauever they want to fly EXACTLY - but I have no idea if that is so. Just because it's pleasing to the eye doesn't make it tougher etc...

I've talked to many 3-D pilots who fly at my field etc... (heck I fly 3-D as well) and when you are out there in the pilot box with them I get a lot of "well that looked cool" or I ask what are you doing next.."I dunno whatever the plane points into...".

See my point.

which is more difficult rolling harrier or a one roll circle ?

You are comparing two very different disciplines. Generally 3D is flown for fun, and to impress. Its the sort of flying you often see at the shows - low level daring stuff. Its intentionally flown to be entertaining to watch.

Smooth precision aerobatics is entirely different and is judged in a completely different way to 3D.

Apply the same judging criteria to someone doing a rolling harrier and someone doing a 1 roll circle - ie you are looking for perfect symetry, constant roll rate, etc etc etc. The you will find the two manoeuvers are as difficult as each other to do to the same standard.

However its pointless judging 3D like that - 3D is for fun and a way of relaxing when you have had enough of your IMAC practice but still want to fly.

Variety in your flying is the key to making yourself a better pilot.

Hey Guys, I don't compete, but I will say that you guy that do are very good pilots. From the time I take off, I try to make my flight look a real a possible. I'm not burning holes in the sky. I try to fly with purpose. The other flyers at my club just go where the plane points. I get compliment on my flights all the time, and the funny thing is, those guys are just as good a pilot as I am. I just make it look like I know what I doing.

After ten minutes of smooth flight, I like to 3D with the last 5 minutes on the timer. I do fare with both. The 3D makes my hands sweat and pucker factor rise, but when I nail that slow roll all the way across the "box" it makes me smile I love both forms of flying.

My hardest manuever ( at my level) is the rolling circle. I did one that was very nice last summer that I accually used both sticks on!, and I almost fried my brain. I had to land and let the smoke clear.

I can see why you IMAC guys get a thrill out of it and you 3D guys are getting thrills too, BUT the most important thing is "Can we all just get along?"

I am not here to start a fight but I have flown IMAC Planes and Pattern Planes. The scale based IMAC planes have a lot of vices compared to a decent patten planes. Why is IMAC more popular than Pattern and AA? The latest generation of Pattern/AA planes with big flying surfaces can even do 3D really well.