Rolling circle downgrades?
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From: camano island,
WA
Just wondering - my two main IMAC planes have quite a different feel (33% Edge and 102" QQ Yak) - and in the rolling circle they have a different ... umm...presentation (would be the word I think).
Rolling circles - how important is the roll rate? How important are the intermediate marks (like 180 degrees of roll every 45 of the circle)? How important is the altitude during? How important is the line of the plane vs. the wiggle of the tail? (Advanced this year has 3 rolls, so A LOT of chance to 'wiggle' the tail)
To be more specific - I would guess (think?) that all are sort of equal except the last - which is not important?
In my case - the Edge had quite a noticeable tail movement (up / side / down / side) during the roller - as the plane gets closer the movement is even more noticeable - I mean tail movement in order to keep my plane at a constant altitude during the rolls - I could go to FULL power, but not my style, so at medium power, the Edge has a very visible tail wiggle. The Yak, I think because of a larger fuse, has much less tail wiggle during the roller - I'm guessing, everything else equal, the Yak would score better just because of the more stable tail movement, but I'm really wondering .. would it? should it?
Actual judging criteria - what matters? how much?
Cheers,
Bob
(the rolling fool)
Rolling circles - how important is the roll rate? How important are the intermediate marks (like 180 degrees of roll every 45 of the circle)? How important is the altitude during? How important is the line of the plane vs. the wiggle of the tail? (Advanced this year has 3 rolls, so A LOT of chance to 'wiggle' the tail)
To be more specific - I would guess (think?) that all are sort of equal except the last - which is not important?
In my case - the Edge had quite a noticeable tail movement (up / side / down / side) during the roller - as the plane gets closer the movement is even more noticeable - I mean tail movement in order to keep my plane at a constant altitude during the rolls - I could go to FULL power, but not my style, so at medium power, the Edge has a very visible tail wiggle. The Yak, I think because of a larger fuse, has much less tail wiggle during the roller - I'm guessing, everything else equal, the Yak would score better just because of the more stable tail movement, but I'm really wondering .. would it? should it?
Actual judging criteria - what matters? how much?
Cheers,
Bob
(the rolling fool)
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From: MI
Bob,
Here is all you need; this is direct from the rule book...good luck and enjoy the practice.
Tom Wheeler
8.2.2. Rolling Turns
The rolling turn is a figure that combines a turn of a prescribed amount with a roll or rolls integrated throughout the turn.
These rolls may be in the same direction as the turn and are called “rolls to the inside” or may be in the opposite direction of the turn and are then called “rolls to the outside” (Fig. 18). There can also be rolls alternating in and out.
When we say that the rolls are integrated, we are saying that in addition to there being constant rate of turn throughout the figure, there is also a constant rate of roll throughout. Naturally, the one exception to this constant roll rate is the pause when reversing roll direction.
To help visualize the execution of this figure and facilitate a way for the judges to determine a constant roll rate, let’s look at an aircraft performing a 360 degree rolling turn with 4 rolls to the inside from upright (Family 2.10.1). First, on the prescribed entry heading, the pilot executes a turn and simultaneously initiates a roll in the same direction as the turn. The judges will expect the aircraft to be inverted at 45, 135, 225, and 315 degrees and to be upright at 90, 180, 270, and 360 degrees. At these interim headings, the judge will NOT downgrade using the one (1) point for ten (10) degree rule but will judge changes in the rate of roll, changes in the rate of turn and changes in altitude. At the end of the 4 rolls, the aircraft must have terminated its 360 degree turn and finish at the same point where it started, wing level and on the prescribed heading.
When a rolling turn is performed with rolls alternating directions, the aircraft must change direction of roll at a wing level attitude. The position of the aircraft in the turn is still only used as an aid to determine if the pilot is varying the rate of roll or turn.
Downgrades:
a) Performing more or fewer rolls than the catalog description calls for results in the figure being zeroed.
b) All rolls in a rolling turn are standard rolls. If a snap roll is performed, the figure is zeroed.
c) Each stoppage of the rate of roll is a deduction of no more than one (1) point.
d) Each variation in the rate of roll is no more than a one (1) point deduction.
e) Each variation in the rate of turn is no more than a one (1) point deduction.
f) Variations in altitude are deducted using one (1) point per every ten (10) degree difference.
g) One (1) point per ten (10) degrees that that the aircraft is not level flight when reversing roll direction.
h) One (1) point for every ten (10) degrees of roll remaining when the aircraft has reached its exit heading.
One (1) point for every ten (10) degrees of turn remaining when the aircraft has completed its last roll.
Here is all you need; this is direct from the rule book...good luck and enjoy the practice.
Tom Wheeler
8.2.2. Rolling Turns
The rolling turn is a figure that combines a turn of a prescribed amount with a roll or rolls integrated throughout the turn.
These rolls may be in the same direction as the turn and are called “rolls to the inside” or may be in the opposite direction of the turn and are then called “rolls to the outside” (Fig. 18). There can also be rolls alternating in and out.
When we say that the rolls are integrated, we are saying that in addition to there being constant rate of turn throughout the figure, there is also a constant rate of roll throughout. Naturally, the one exception to this constant roll rate is the pause when reversing roll direction.
To help visualize the execution of this figure and facilitate a way for the judges to determine a constant roll rate, let’s look at an aircraft performing a 360 degree rolling turn with 4 rolls to the inside from upright (Family 2.10.1). First, on the prescribed entry heading, the pilot executes a turn and simultaneously initiates a roll in the same direction as the turn. The judges will expect the aircraft to be inverted at 45, 135, 225, and 315 degrees and to be upright at 90, 180, 270, and 360 degrees. At these interim headings, the judge will NOT downgrade using the one (1) point for ten (10) degree rule but will judge changes in the rate of roll, changes in the rate of turn and changes in altitude. At the end of the 4 rolls, the aircraft must have terminated its 360 degree turn and finish at the same point where it started, wing level and on the prescribed heading.
When a rolling turn is performed with rolls alternating directions, the aircraft must change direction of roll at a wing level attitude. The position of the aircraft in the turn is still only used as an aid to determine if the pilot is varying the rate of roll or turn.
Downgrades:
a) Performing more or fewer rolls than the catalog description calls for results in the figure being zeroed.
b) All rolls in a rolling turn are standard rolls. If a snap roll is performed, the figure is zeroed.
c) Each stoppage of the rate of roll is a deduction of no more than one (1) point.
d) Each variation in the rate of roll is no more than a one (1) point deduction.
e) Each variation in the rate of turn is no more than a one (1) point deduction.
f) Variations in altitude are deducted using one (1) point per every ten (10) degree difference.
g) One (1) point per ten (10) degrees that that the aircraft is not level flight when reversing roll direction.
h) One (1) point for every ten (10) degrees of roll remaining when the aircraft has reached its exit heading.
One (1) point for every ten (10) degrees of turn remaining when the aircraft has completed its last roll.
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From: camano island,
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Thanks very much Tom - I've read that a bunch of times, and it makes sense to me.
I guess I need to get to more competitions (my plan too, but darn - surgeries are getting in the way, again) to see what happens with my scoring compared to what I would expect. I can read and do understand that the 'wiggle' as I call it, should not be a cause for downgrades - which is a very clear answer to my question.
Cheers,
Bob
I guess I need to get to more competitions (my plan too, but darn - surgeries are getting in the way, again) to see what happens with my scoring compared to what I would expect. I can read and do understand that the 'wiggle' as I call it, should not be a cause for downgrades - which is a very clear answer to my question.
Cheers,
Bob



