Bass1

Bill, When I mentioned "tapping" my foot, I was refering to tapping my foot on the pause(off and on) switch that would play the next maneuver description/instruction on my pre-made "caller" tape.

bubbagates

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Ah, I understand now

bubbagates

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OK guys/gals, I finally have time to write the naarative for the Sportsman.

Sorry for the delay

Sportsman is here

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6609262/tm.htm

les40

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I have had a judge tell me that I should count out the 45 and vertical uplines and downlines and when I pointed out to him that the airplane's speed wasn't constant so that wouldn't produce equal lines he stated that the speed doesn't change that much. I had the same judge tell me that my airplane should come to a stop in the stall maneuver before the spin. Obviously that thinking is flawed since if the airplane's horizontal motion comes to a stop then the airplane isn't maintaining altitude (unless it is in a hover).

Silent-AV8R

The judge was wrong on both counts.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO criteria in a spin that requires the plane to stop forward motion. ALL that is required is that the plane is stalled. Relative ground speed is irrelevant. This judge needs some more schoolin.

In many figures, especially in the lower classes, the count method works close enough. It all depends on how much energy is lost during the roll elements on the line. You need to practice your count method to see how close it comes to giving you equal lines.

bubbagates

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les,

I'd have a talk with that judge.

I'm by no means perfect but I do know that an airplane in a climb is going to slow down, how quickly depends on the angle and pwer available. Even with excess power it still is going to slow, jsut not as quickly. Now if you still had throttle left you could do the climb and slowly increase throttle but that is gonna be tough to do and maintain a constant speed, now tosh in an element and even more speed is lost.

Also, I'm sure you are aware that stall speed does not have to be zero airspeed. In our models it's close but it certainly is not zero

If I am wrong someone correct me.

bubbagates

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Just curious, has anyone tried the short unknown I mentioned earlier??? SIM or plane, doesn't matter

If you did ,tell me, I'm interested to see what you thought.

Bass1

Bill, I'll give that short unknown a shot on my simulator during halftime of tonight's football game.

Aerobat

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Bill, the short sequence you posted is AWESOME for practice - it really forced me to use the rudder without thinking about it - thanks! I'm going to drill on this one until it's intuitive.

Mark

Bass1

Well I just tried the "short unknown" and have come to the conclusion that I'm not as fantastic as I thought[X(]! I tried the sequence at head high altitude to give me a real good reference on holding a constant altitude and wasn't too bad with that aspect but drawing a straight line with all the various points in the rolls was a different story. Sort of looked like the drunk guy trying to walk a straight line in a sobriety test you see on the "Cops" tv show! I will have it mastered by morning.

bubbagates

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Mark,

It really teachs a lot.

Bass,

Don't miss the game on my account....

Glad you guys like it. It really helped me improve my rudder control

dcarpenter62

OK a complete new guy here to this type of flying....I was a sport flyer 30 years ago and getting back into flying this year...just learning some 3D.....(hard to teach an old dog new tricks)
Question is....in the beginning sequence...do you do all manuvers in sequence without leaving the "box" or do you fly outside the "box" and make turn arrounds and get set up for the next manuver. [sm=confused.gif] In other words after the hammerhead do you do an imediate loop or do you go and do a turn and come back to show center and then do the loop....as an example.
This should be fun..I have done airshows in 1:1 scale but never with a model.
Dave [sm=idea.gif]

bubbagates

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Hi Dave,

All maneuvers are done when you enter the box. In basic, there are no maneuvers where you leave the box and come back in but in the higher classes you have crossbox maneuvers, but again you never really leave the box as in full scale. Your turnarounds are built into the Aresti such as a simple Humpy Bump, Hammerhead, half cuban, etc...

The Aresti shows where you would place them. Technically there is no box any more but the Airspace Control Score was created in it's place and is really subjective. Basically where ever you stand is considered center and you would fly the sequence with a good balance both left and right

Aerobat

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Check out www.mini-iac.com -- there's a lot of good info there to get you started.

mflander

I am going to start flying in some IMAC contests next year.. if I plan on doing 4-5 contests, would you recommend doing my first one in the basic class? Or should I start at sportsman... I consider myself a decent pilot, but have never competed before. And this seems like a whole different type of flying to me...

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Start in basic, flying for a score and in front of everyone watching is way different than just doing it. There is no shame in starting basic and you will learn a lot. Remember, the best score wins, so ask yourself the following and answer yourself truthfully:

Are you able to hold a perfectly straight and level line for several hundred feet and can you do a full roll on that line without losing any altitude and causing a heading change, do you know how to make sure you 45 degree lines are actually 45 degrees, are your downlines perfectly straight down. Can you do a perfectly round loop that starts and stops at the same place, Can you do a perfectly round 360 degree aerobatic turn that is exactly 360 degrees and not lose or gain altitude and have the same roll rate coming out as you did going in. Do you know how to center an element on a line.

Are all of the above being done wind corrected?

It's a lot harder than it looks but at the same time it's tons of fun and certainly teaches you how to handle a plane and place it where you want at anytime you want.

Another thing is most likely you will be flying against the same people all the time and being judged by the same judges most of the time. Though a CD tries to pass around judging duties, he sometimes has to rely on the same ones. Most likely you will be judged by the guys flying advanced or higher and they have been there and done that and know exactly what you are going to do before YOU know it, IE they have a good idea where you are going to try to hide your rudder corrections, where you are most likely to come out with the wings unlevel, etc... and can tell quickly that you are 5 degrees off before you see it.

I am sorry if the whole post sounds negative, it really is not meant that way, what I stated is what you need to know plus there are a few things I did not touch on.

Try this on for size. It will tell you just how good your rudder skills are which are needed in all IMAC. You must maintain a level line and you cannot deviate the roll rate or heading, the hesitations between the points must be the same and when you complete the hammer the first 3 or 4 must be opposite of the first one you did before the hammer and the 1/2 rolls must be centered on wherever you are standing.

3 of 4 to the right
1/2 roll to the left
3 of 4 to the right

Hammer (nothing up or down)

3 of 4 to the left
1/2 roll to the right
3 of 4 to the left

mflander

and the few things you did not touch on are? This is all GREAT info, its not negative at all. I'm excited to begin flying in competition, and want every last ounce of help we can get. I know the first contest isn't until next may, but I want to practice with my foamy tonight .

Let it out Bill, you are obviously a wealth of information...

Bass1

Actually it doesn't sound negative at all. All the variables involved just makes it more fun and challenging!

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Thanks,

everything I am telling is things I picked up from asking questions, talking to the judges, scribing for the higher classes and just being a pain in the butt by asking and I did not want to give you information overload, there is plenty of time. What I am letting you know is everything that took me from a 6th place out of 8 pilots on my first one in basic to 1st place out of 12 pilots in my 5th contest. That contest was tight all weekend and even my raw scores were excellent.

One thing to remember is once you get to sportsman, the thing that really kills new IMAC pilots are the unknowns. These are similar to the knowns that you can practice all you want but the unknowns you are not allowed to practice except with a stick plane, you arms and hands and NOT even on the sim.

In my previous post I added the thing a CD gave me to do that really told me just how bad my rudder control was. Though I could not see it during the contest other did. I also had a tuck I was doing on my 1/2 rolls that I did not see that was costing me 1/2 point but in a full sequence that was a 1.5 point deduction and after 6 flights that's a lot of points when you get down to it. My point is to me, everything looked great until that first time. Even all the people I normally fly with saw a big difference by the time I went to the second contest. My skills definitely improved and the cool thing was I was beating people with 35 and 40 percent Carden's and such with a measly old Comp-Arf 2.3M EXTRA.

I need to act like I'm getting some work done so I'll add more later tonight

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Did you get the short unknown mastered yet, WITHOUT thinking about it??? . Once you do that and go practice the sequence for reall you should see a huge difference in your lines

One thing I failed to mention yet is a properly trimmed plane and not just the trims on the TX (IE thrust angles, a little forward CG point, things like that), will make life loads easier for you.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

OK guys, here's an excersize for you. I have uploaded some vieos that someone on another forum made on a sim for each 2008 sequence. Take a look at the basic sequence and see if you can tell where the deductions are. Some are very subtle but are there. One thing to take into account is in a video things are always not what they appear. Here is the basic video. Feel free to PM me or respond in here with where you see the deductions and what they are. Make sure you post the time as shown on the media player. This should get a good debate going.

http://www.hiddenhangarrc.com/video/imac/Basic2008.wmv

and all the rest of the sequences are at:

http://www.hiddenhangarrc.com/video/imac/

Now the thing is you may not have had a chance to look over the Aersti stuff or the judging guide so I have uploaded the current ones here. Make sure you get all of them. Read Aresti made easy and the 2008 Judging guide. The guide will tell you where the deductions are and the Aersti made Simple will help you learn how to read Aresti

I recommend you print them all off and make an indexed 3-ring notebook and take it with you. Some of it is dry reading but to be the best you can you do need to know this stuff.

IMC files:

http://www.hiddenhangarrc.com/pdf/imac/

Oh yea, remember one thing about IMAC, it's all about having fun and should you place in the top three, even better . We do not get money for this, we sometimes get a plaque and sometimes you get a shirt. I can tell you this, you will make some really cool friends that are a wealth of information. It's not uncommon to have other pilots toss hardware your way when you have a problem just because they want to see you compete and have fun and in most cases they want nothing in return. I discovered this firsthand at my second contest. Coolest thing I ever had happen to me in R/C.

And something else I ran across that means a lot

To quote Pete Goldsmith.
"Learn to fly with your wings Level"

If you know what level wings looks like, geometry of figures becomes much easier.
Take your stick plane, hold it level but have the wings banked 2 or 3 degrees. Pull exactly 90 degrees up and see what the start of that next line looks like. Its messed up. Now not only are you trying to draw a straight line but now you are having to correct for the wings not being square.. Makes for a lot of extra work.

Most of us fly with the wing thats pointing at them slightly low. L wing down flying right to left. R wing down flying left to right.

Have a local IMAC pilot look you over, ask him to be highly critical and listen to him. You may feel bad but if you listen you will learn

To practice break up the sequences into 2 or 3 manuevers, practice them until you can reliably do them and the another set the same when, then put them all together.

Something I like to do is spend 5 minutes doing nothing but the first two maneuvers, then 2 or 3 minutes doing whatever I felt like to take a break, then another 5 minutes doing the same 2 maneuvers. I would continue this until I did all 10 of them, the I would start doing the whole sequence the same way, I do one sequence, do it again and then spend a minute or two doing what I wanted then if fuel allowed did the sequence a third time. One thing I just thought of that you should know is in IMAC, you will do the sequqence twice each time you fly, except for unknowns, those you only do once. Basic has no unknowns, but it's not uncomon for the basic pilots to do their sequence just one time on one flight to help them get used to doing an unknon, it is typically scored as a single sequence and counts towards the total points

And one final thing, attend a judging seminar in your region. Head over to the http://www.mini-iac.com site and look around, it's kinda early yet for the scholls/seminars to be posted but keep coming back to the site and checking.

Just so you all know, I competed in full scale aerobatics for a short time as well as way back in the early days of IMAC along with flying for Rosie O'Gradys in Orlando Fl doing some skywriting. I was out of it for some time do to a heart condition and came back and started back in basic, that was this year. I'm going to sportsman next year and maybe intermediate sometime next year as well but only if I can nail rollers, I just cannot get the timing right, I can do it but it looks like crap. I have a wealth of info to share but I need to work on things as well. Your best source is the guys that have been doing it awhile.

All I can do is give you what I learned some time ago and this past season. To give you an idea of what can happen when you research and listen and do what is suggested, I had people in the NE and SE regions grumbling that it was time I moved up so now they get to deal with me in Sportsman and that was after only 5 contests

mflander

bill... send me an e-mail to that "other" forum so I can research even more will ya?

[email protected]

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

email sent... grab a favorite beverage and have at it.

mflander

I'm at work right now ...... I spend a lot of time on the phone with customers.. so I browse all the websites. Plus with RCU's subscribe notifications sent via e-mail, its easy to stay caught up. I love it!

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

OK so grab a water or soda or wait until you get home. either way there is a lot more there