So if I'm limiting myself to a 70" plane, one would say that a 26-28cc engine would be on the small side...

http://estore.websitepros.com/173229...mbo/Detail.bok

I'd have to agree that going to gas in the 35 to 50cc range is gonna be way better in the long run but for IMAC it is not required. As has been mentioned, in basic if it has wings, bring it. I've seen guys using Four Stars for basic and doing well. IMAC is all about the proper setup of a given plane as well as flying each maneuver properly and that goes from basic all the way to unlimited but once above basic, having a scale plane is required. Basically the rule is if it has flown in a real IAC competition it can fly in IMAC above the basic class. That means some high wing planes are legal in IMAC such as a Decathalon. I'm all for being the person that goes against the norm and I find the Sukhoi series to be a much better IMAC plane (let the flaming begin ) if properly setup and the new H9 version certainly fits the bill if you take the time to properly set it up and re-glue the snot out of it. Right now I fly a C-ARF Extra 260 in IMAC but have owned the Sukhoi and did the trimming work on it and was all ready until it literally blew the aileron off the right wing panel.

Proper plane setup is everything for IMAC or any type of flying for that matter, it takes a load of work off the pilot and in IMAC and 3D the less you have to correct in the air, the better. You can easily end up doing 40 to 50 flights to get a plane setup correctly, though they will be very short flights.

This years IMAC ship and me at Woodstock CT

I have no issue with your reasons for limiting your search to a 70" wingspan, and I have no issue with the Abell selections as far as airframes (Edge, Extra, Sukhoi, Yak). My main difficulty is with the 28 cc gas powerplant. I have no familiarity with the MDL engine, but I bet it's considerably heavier than the 160FX. I have seen the 160FX haul IMAC models to the top corners of the box with great authority, 78" wingspans included, so on a 70" ws model the OS would not even work up a sweat. The book on the 160FX in competition says this is a very powerful, well-behaved, reliable product with a long line of happy users and proven set-ups. Also reasonably priced. It is the primo choice for not expensive, not complicated, abundant power in the 70-78" ws, 10-12 lb range for aerobatic models.

Also, no slur on Abell, but you would have to pay shipping if you order from them, whereas similar products from the major hobby shop distributors are available without an extra shipping charge.

Ok.

BJames, that Casper is AWESOME!!!

MajorTom, point taken. OS 2 stroke is most likely the best option for me. As far as airframes, the Abellrc planes are a touch smaller than my favorite online hobby shop, and about $100 less for something comparable. Mostly I like those sub 70" planes for $299. My Venus (68") is quite a handful to maneuver around my apartment and car, so that's what I'm going to set the limit at until I'm out of school (with grad school that's 4 more years[X(]

)

gaRCfield....

grab your Venus and head to a contest!

http://www.mini-iac.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=76

There are a couple more this year in your region...
You'll get a good idea about IMAC and the people and the planes..
Just go for it.....
Let the CD know it is your first contest.. and they should pair you up with an experienced pilot....

Just go for it......
Then you'll have the winter to decide which way to go....

Trust me, you'll love it!

I know I do!


Also, here is a video of the Basic sequence. This is flown on the simulator by Wayne Geffon
http://www.bbw.shutupandfly.com/Basic2008.wmv

This is what I'm getting for my Birthday in a couple of weeks:
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/159525.asp
71" Katana, weighing in at 11.8 lbs (or so they say).
I have experience with Phoenix Models, Seagull Models gets good reviews, and these 3 manufacturers are all incredibly similar (all made in Vietnam), covered with same stuff, etc. so I should be fine with the quality of the plane.


Will an OS 160 2 stroke be enough for this plane? I haven't been interested in 3D stuff until pretty recently - I'd like to have the ability to do 3D but really am concentrating on precision aerobatics. I guess what I'm trying to say is it would be nice to have extra power to pull myself out of emergencies.

Other options are a Moki 1.80 2-stroke, Saito 1.80 4-stroke, and a 50CC gas engine which I know nothing about.

Thanks!

Here are links to the planes in the poll: My birthday is next weekend and my parents are ready to order me a plane, so please vote!!!
All to be powered by an 'appropriate' OS two stroke.

Katana: http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=641

Extra: http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_gu...fm?kit_id=5252

Edge: http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=706

Elections are in a month and a half, why not practice voting now?!

Rock the vote!!!

Morning gaRCfield...Great post. I have researched the planes,the manufactures, and their hadware packs. The clear winner, the best buy for your money, and gets my vote is the Seagull Extra 260 from Horizon Hobby. That's only if you combo it with an OS 1.60FX.
If you decide to use any other engine, then I reserve the right to retract my vote!!! hey, this is a democracy here ya know!

gaRCfield, again just glad to help and to see another fellow flyer enjoy the sport!
One other tid-bit...The Seagull has a "track record" so to speak and has a good overall record in general. The planes construction is of good material with things like the spars, fillets, and doublers all done the right way to add strength to the important areas while keeping weight to a minimum. One of the most important areas of all these new planes coming out of china or the far east is the glue that the plant uses. I have seen what was left of planes after a mild crash where all the joints just popped apart cuz they were put together with what amounts to a lousy hot-glue gun job. Your 260 will be just fine.
I do want you to read my thread on the "Building the new Hangar 9 Sukhoi SU26MM" in the "Giant Scale" area of the forums. Here's the link:
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7846501/tm.htm]Sukhoi SU26MM[/link]
If you look at this forum and kinda pick up on what I'm trying to say, you'll see that there is much more to building a good plane then just cruzin through the instruction manual. Check it out and hopefully it will help you. You can also check out my thread on my build of my Dietrich Performance Extra 260 50cc/DA-50R. Here is the link:
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7227704/anchors_7227704/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#7227704]DPA Extra 260 50cc[/link]
Good Luck and have Fun!

Very comforting to hear good things about Seagull. People really seem to love their planes. This build will take place over the whole winter, so I plan on taking my time and doing things right. I will bookmark the links above and reference them for ideas. I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions - already I'm wondering what I'll use for battery (7V lipo with regulator or just a good 6V nimh?) and throttle servo. Stock or Pitts muffler? Also, apparently the plane can be set up with 2 servos in each wing, but some people who have the plane have not done this - I've got JR DS821 servos for the elevator and ailerons (72oz at 4.8v, will use 6v) and think this should be fine. Will do much higher torque for rudder.

I just got myself a digi-camera, so I'll try to do a build thread, and maybe even a user review.

I would due what gaRCfield says fly the Venus first its A great little plane and that way you can get your feet wet. Good luck and have fun.

Well, I just saw a video of the Seagull Extra. Nice looking plane, but the (youtube) video did nothing for the plane - it was powered by a 180 four stroke, and either the plane was grossly underpowered, the plane was way too tail heavy, or a combination of both, because the plane STOPPED and lost tons of altitude in turns, and didn't seem to want to fly unless the nose was pointed up.

At the field today I inquired about larger planes from my two mentors, who both fly large planes and are the two best pilots in my club. I was told I don't want a 1.60 two stroke (10% nitro is $35/gal here!), and I don't want a heavy plane. They assured I was ready for a nice quarter scale gasser, and the club president promised to help me with a gas engine next summer if I get one. I've been hesitant to get a light plane due to the lack of wood (easy to break?) but if I fly high and not crash, what's the difference?

So, I'm not going to rush - at least I'm not going to settle, on a new plane - I'll get what I REALLY want (and can fit) like a quarter scale extra and an appropriate gasoline engine.

Time to start researching engines I guess! Thanks for all the help - you guys were all right in the first place, and I'm glad I didn't jump into a decision that would have saved a few dollars now but cost me more money in fuel and less satisfaction in settling on a mediocre airframe.

The best part of your conclusion is, don't buy in a rush of enthusiasm, and when you're offered help from a veteran flyer, do the smart thing and listen to what he has to say, especially if he's willing to buddy up and look over your shoulder. Apprenticeship can't be beat for building skill and transferring arcane knowledge.

Morning gaRCfield! I liked to fell out when I read your message...now your talking! You can thank your club guys for me for helping you out and I totally agree with them. You continued to lean towards a glow plane from what I was getting from you which would have been fine but this is a much better overall decision by far.
The QQ plane is great. I know of probably a dozen members at my club that fly QQ planes and they all like them. They don't do IMAC with them but then those guys don't do any compitition they just rip holes in the air and goof around with trying to learn 3D.
I don't know anything about the engine but what little bit of research I did, it seems ok too. It has a couple of points I really like...the walbro carb is definitely a plus.
I say go for it, save the bucks and have a blast. You know you will be entering into a whole new phase of your flying world right? You will officially become a member of the cheaper to fly, easier to keep clean, and nosier than the rest "Gasser Bunch" (thats what they call us at our club). Keep me posted and go read my articles!

RickB
Gotta luv it![8D]

A bit off topic but now that your closing in on an airplane and motor think about attending an IMAC judging seminar if at all possible. They will teach you about how to read Aresti and most importantly what the judges are looking for in order for you to get good scores. There is nothing more frustrating than spending lots of time and effort practicing, picking out the right airframe etc... only to get low scores and even worse not knowing why! The school will teach you how to do the manuevers right (right being defined as what the judges are looking for). It will give you a whole knew outlook on what a loop, roll, etc... is supposed to look like. And don't pass up flying in Basic jumping into the higher levels immediately. The skills you learn in basic are the most important parts as you progress up the levels. Most of the points left on the table in the higher classes are because the pilot messed up on the skills they learned (or didn't) in Basic. OK, back to the discussion at hand. I think you'll be happy with a small gasser. Good luck.

Not sure where or how to get into 'classes' but I'm definitely not jumping past basic and definitely am doing whatever research I can to learn the moves. I've been working with some pattern guys and flying in pattern meets, so at least I know to look for constant radius loops, round circles, and most important straight and level flight (not that I can do it easily or anything, but at least I know what I'm NOT doing right)

Majortom, you definitely nailed my enthusiasm bit - I'm thankful I didn't let it get the best of me. I love everything about this hobby, from picking out planes to assembling them to flying them, setting them up, talking about them, and competing with them. Every aspect of (competitive) flying is truly fascinating.

You may want to check out fliton,..they have a 50cc Extra 260 and a 120 sized Extra 330 you could easily use for IMAC. All the suggested planes are all great ones.

www.fliton.com


Regards,
Bill Holsten
Team Fliton

Ok, so after hours and hours of research I found these two AMAZING deals:

http://www.qqaircraft.com/planes.asp...&s_PLANE_CAT=c

http://troybuiltmodels.com/newsite/a..._yak54_73.html

They recommend 26cc - is that enough? Is 45cc too much?

another possible option:

http://www.extremeflightrc.com/html/74yak54.html

I can't transport more than a 70" fuse.

Geez, as the cost of this plane keeps rising, I'm questioning spending $700+ on a plane I don't even know that I'll like to fly! I love flying a pattern plane - will I be disappointed with a scale plane? I'm guessing I won't and that it will be different in a good way, but just figured I'd get this out there.

Hey Joe, here's a suggestion: IMAC Basic says you can fly any AMA legal plane, such as a pattern plane, or a Venus, or anything that will fly straight. I've known guys who have done that, enjoyed themselves, learned a lot from the experience, from seeing the popular choices of scale aerobats, from talking to the competitors. Get the Basic sequence from off the IMAC site, and try flying it along with your pattern routine. I think you'll find the feel and the challenges, pretty similar to pattern flying. After you've practiced that over what's left of this season and into next year, you'll be ready to fly IMAC with confidence. Take what you've got, fly it, show the rest of the gang the best you have to offer, and take it from there.

Of course if the right deal presents itself, such as maybe a bargain on a scale aerobat at one of the winter auctions, something that is too good to pass up, grab it if you want. But don't feel pressured to buy something before you feel confident in what you want.

I fly and enjoy my gassers at least as much as my glow models. When I broke into gas, like so many others, I searched and searched for a not-too-big, not-too-heavy, not-too-expensive gas engine that would fit well on a not-too-big model. I never found one. The reason the 50 cc class is so popular in the ARF offerings is because that's a good power/weight point at the smaller end of the scale. If you don't have the vehicle to lug that size around in, then compromising good flying characteristics to get something that fits in your car, that to my way of thinking is not an acceptable compromise. 50 cc, 14-15 pound aerobat, now you're in business.

gaRCfield, I will throw this out, just because you started out asking about the 73" QQ yak. It is on sale until December for $339

I know it, great deal, and I think I just might go ahead and get it And a 45cc???[>:]

MajorTom, thanks for the suggestion. I'm in the market for a second plane anyhow and would like something different than my Venus. I'm sure there will be more planes in the future, so if this one doesn't cut it for IMAC...well at least it should be a blast to fly.

Hi Joe...well I have to be honest, I have kinda backed away from your thread. You had the right idea but you are listening to way too many people and most don't have a clue to what there telling you or suggesting you should do! I'll give you this last bit of advice...dont get caught up into most of these guys tales...and for the plane you have here, the 45cc engine is way too big, heavy, and powerful for this planes light airframe! The correct engine, with plenty of power for this plane is the 26cc and NO MORE than a 32! Thats it! Plain and simple this plane and its light airframe will do you wonders with a 26cc engine when propped right!
Thats it for me buddy and good luck!