RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Airbus Dude,
In Eric's defense as being part of the team that ran the event, I must admit that I am sure that the kind of stats you are quoting for a contest are possible. BUT, I can almost guarantee to you that from the CD down, you had an EXCESS of HIGHLY EXPERIENCED judges, scribes, runners, scorekeepers, line bosses, organizers, volunteers and pilots. This is only the second year that this team at BCF has sponsored an IMAC event, and the first time we used a club CD. Just like anything else, there is a learning curve involved.... (I'll bet your second ever instrument approach was pretty sloppy !!), and yes, there where mistakes made, most of which have been discussed by the organizers as something to change in the future.

The fact of the matter is, contestants NOT understanding that & complaining un-constructively (sp?) about the way things where run in a public forum IMO just undermines the task of correcting the issues for the next contest & kills the motivation for people to volunteer, which is hard enough to do as it is.

Bruce

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

We certainly did not have an excess of judges, I judged 3 times over the course of the weekend. Pilots need to learn to judge as well as fly. We had no runners at either contest and no line bosses at the last contest. What we did have is a contest director who made it very clear from the start that we as pilots need to keep things moving. Use the time not spent flying either helping out with the contest or increasing your knowledge and skill by talking with other contestants and judges. Wonder why you got that zero or that low score on a figure you thought you did well, find the judge and discuss, NOT argue, about why you got what you did. It should be a time for learning as well as competing. A contest success doesn't just rest with the CD. It starts there and with a good lead and with active participation from the pilots flying it should be a good contest. Be proactive, not reactive!
On a final note and one that started this thread, the SCAT Grand Champion last year was the winner of the basic class, flying his first year of scale aerobatics. He walked away at the end of the season with a JR 10X radio and if that wasn't enough he won a DA100 in the prize draw for all pilots that had flown 4 or more series contests for the season! That alone should be a good reason for flying basic.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Alrighty then. We agree to disagree. It must be the humidity here in Florida. :eek:

It's not my problem anymore. Some other schmuck can volunteer to do it and then be criticized.

The next time you notice that there are no contests because nobody wants to run it, remember this thread.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Interesting. I think you make a good point, but not the one you think you are making.

I would argue that by making Basic pilots feel like they are less than the other classes will in fact lead to a day when there are no contests. Where will the upper class pilots come from to fly and run these contests?? Pop up fully developed and ready to go without ever having learned the lessons that Basic (and Sportsman) have to teach?? I doubt it.

But you are right, running contests is not for the thin skinned. And burnout is a very real danger, especially when it is left to a few to do it for the many.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

WOW I guess we have it lucky we have such a short season we don't have to deal with burn out we have blessed with a lot of help from the clubs (Kenai,Anchorage. Fairbanks,) non -competition guys to help judge and scribe run the flightline, safety inspect and Bar-B-Q.We have tried to turn our competitions into events. All our prizes are awarded in a drawing 1st place in each class gets to draw first and so on down the line and all helpers and judges are included also in the drawings and we made it mandatory for a B-B-Q at each event. And I would have to admit we have had more and more fun each year. This will be our clubs 3rd year hosting the Alaska Aerobatic Challenge. This year it will also be the Alaska state IMAC championship check it out on our website www. peninsulamodelers.com we have allot great prizes this year including flyout fishing trips. Mark,

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Hi All,

It sounds like Alaska would be a good place for Basic pilots to get some extra rounds in the summertime.

Doesn't it stay light there until 11:00 at night in the summer ??? You guys could have 2 contests in one weekend:):)
I would have to agree with other posts in this thread as I didn't stay in Basic long enough to realize the importance of just flying straight.I paid for it later in Sportsman...
I'm glad to see great emphasis placed on Basic . I feel every attempt should be made to help get these pilots going right..
As far as time for the basic guys goes , they should get a few more sequences if time allows .My only experience as a CD recently found that the basic guys were more on the ball and ready to fly...Eagerness should be rewarded if time allows..
As far as contests and running one right and efficient, I think everyone should attend a few JR SCAT series events and the Tucson Aerobatic Shootout.. Both are Models of efficiencyand FUN!!! (Thanks Bill,Barry and Mike M. ) Pilots in the air and ready to enter the box and scoresheetrunners both save a lot of time..

Thanks , Dave Stoik

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Cubdriver, aresti2004 is the series director for all 6 scat contests. If anyone deserves to get burnout he does. None of the six contests are in his home area. But there are lots of experienced people at these contests. The pilots do a very good job of staging themselves, Bill has the judges ready for the next class befoe the previous one ends.

What would be nice is if the pilots who gain experience from SCAT would carry it over to ther own contests. This year So Cal has around 8 IMAC contests where in the past there were 2. Guess where these people/cd's gained experience?

Hekter, we have missed you this year. How did you get Shawn Tucker to put on a demo at an IMAC contest? Is it as simple as asking? Maybe we could get Kirby Chamblis since he is local?

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

You can see the full schedule for the SW (actually just California, Arizona, and Nevada) here:

http://www.scaleaerobatics.org/non_scat_schedule.html

Plus some other glider stuff that interests me!!

Bill

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Hi Tony,

A full scale demo is NOT just up to the pilot It lies in the Hands of the FAA.. Being a CD is the EASY part .. the 50 returned phone calls to the FAA is a HAIRPULLER... IT was a 7minute flight for Sean D.from his Salinas hangar to our contest..
I'll see you guys at both of the Camarillo contests and at the TAS, I miss having fun with the Phoenix crew..

See you Soon,Dave

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Hey Quist Man that would be tough being the CD for 6 contest in one season. I hope you guys really appreciate the dediction and sacrifice that must take my hat is off to aresti 2004 (Bill). I hope I can get down there hit a few fall matchs this year . And we would welcome our southern flying buddies to come up to a match maybe a little fishing or hunting. Mark,

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

I believe the example that Bill has set is rubbing off on IMAC here in the SW. All that really matters in the promotion and growth of scale aerobatics, IMAC and SCAT equally.

The club in Tucson had there spring IMAC contest this past weekend and basic flew 9 rounds, it was a smaller (28 pilots) contest then scat but they at least put the effort in for extra flying because they had the time. I am sure the pilots left with a feeling that they got there moneys worth.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Hate to tell you but Sportsman gets hosed over sometimes as well. Sportsman has a large turn out down here in the SE and sometimes on Sunday the CD doesn't want to fly that additional round cause it takes 3 hours to get through one.

The CD's in the SE also tend to cut flying short on Sunday to get people home. I hate this. You spend the time and effort to practice, you take time off from work (Friday) and drive to the contest. Pay for a hotel room, just so the CD can get you out of there by 1 or 2 Sunday afternoon. That blows. I took the time off from work knowing that Sunday was going to be a pain getting home. I know that going into it. I WANT TO FLY. That is why I took the time to practice, and paid the expense of the trip. TO FLY! Not to get home by 6:00 pm on Sunday.

If my field could support an IMAC event I would put one on and allow the pilots to fly. Those that want a jump on getting home can leave early. Those that wish to FLY can stay and do so. Let each pilot make up his or her own mind, the CD shouldn't be making this choice for everyone......

Just my rant.....

Pugs

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Hi Pugs,

I'm with you on the flying as much as possible part, but here's a few things to consider. Some can't take time of on Friday or Monday for that matter. They still make the meet, but it's nice to get some rest on Sunday before the next grind starts. Others have kids in school that compete, which is a great thing, but it's hard to spend the whole weekend away, leave the meet at 6 PM, drive seven hours home and explain to the wife why the kids slept through school on Monday.

You can never satisfy everyone. Keep practicing. It's to make you better pilot, not so you can show off how hard you've worked. Go to the meets and ENJOY YOURSELF, it's really not important that you didn't get to fly 3 or 4 more hours. Be thankful that you got to spend the weekend with some good friends doing what you enjoy.

This is only my opinion of course so ymmv.

Willem

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Its sad to see, that people think thease events are put on just for them. Imac here is small, our club is going to host its first event, 3 members have flowen one time in basics, If this the kind of BS we have to look forward to maybe we should cancel.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Lucas,
Who are the events put on for? I'm confused, I thought the events were put on for pilots.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Having read all the replys above, no one has mentioned what the rules say about basic!!!!! What actually makes up a Basic IMAC contest?????

1) Basic doesn't fly an Unknown, everyone agrees with that.
2) What do the rules say is a full contest for Basic?
6 sequences drop 2, 8 sequences drop 3, 7 sequences drop ??(I'm not sure)
3) For the other classes it is 6 sequences drop 2, plus a fly what you get Unknown.

Believe all attempts should be made to provide the opportunity to fly, as the rules state. I am always a little upset when, without nature related or excessive #'s of pilots, a full contest(what ever that is) isn't flown.

You also have to factor in the generally negative responses most CD's(I believe, me included) receive when a contest goes past 1:00 or so for those that have driven 6-10 hours. Many CD's are trying to be responsive to the wishes of the pilots that have travelled a long distance to compete(IMHO)

Food for thought.

ed

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Well, not really. What the rules say about Basic, and all the other classes with respect to a contest is merely this:

Rule #8, Page 88 AMA Rule Book 2002 - 2004:

"The event shall be divided into four (4) classes, in order of increasing difficulty. The classes are Basic (411), Sportsman (412), Advanced (413), and Unlimited (414).

Other than that the rules say nothing about what makes up a contest. There are no minimum number (or maximum) of rounds, not all classes are required to be offered.

So a CD is free to offer as many, or as few, rounds as they want and they can choose what classes to fly (but must post that 30 days prior to the contest).


Bill

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Yep our first IMAC we had 3 rounds.and dropped one.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

You're right. Just looked it up.

Rule 11; there shall not be a limit to the number of rounds except as presented by time.

Ed

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Divesplat:
Some may think it is sick but here in the Northeast NJ,MD,PA. some CD's have been flying an unknown by the overwhelming request of the basic pilots. My problem happen this year when the unknown was not printed and we did not even get to fly our know as the unknown which seemed to be the norm. I was then TOLD I had to judge for the sportsman unknown even after I told the cd I was calling for a sportsman pilot. My weekend ended at that point in time. My plane was packed into the trailer and I drove the 4 hours home. I think next year my wife is going to schedule a cruise around that time. I wonder where I'll be.[:o] being that it's my Anniversary and my daughters birthday.

Dave M. I agree with what you say about the work it takes and the thanks they receive. And I do think Mike did a good job even though we had a conflict. See you guy's at the TOC of Maryland.[8D]

Kevin

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

I'm sorry Kevin but I need a qualified judge for that round. You attended the NE judging clinic and that put you name on my "who's gonna judge" list. You can bet that you will be needed to judge at other contests this year. Also that you will be judging sportsman and that the person you are calling for may have to find another caller. It has happened to me at many contests.It's nice to have the same caller all the time but sometime it just doesn't work out that way.

I did notice that you ended up scribing that round for another judge and for that I thank you.

Mike

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

No good deed goes unpunished.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Kevin

I really don't think there is a NORM as far as flying an unknown in basic or a 'fill-in' known round.. that would be the cd's call - as long as it is posted in the Sanction information.

For me not being a pilot but being on the sidelines and watching and working at these contest , I see too many pilots whining and complaining instead of helping out and just pitching in and judging , scribing , whatever it takes to make the contest just go smoothly. I do agree with Mike that there are always plenty of other callers that could and would call a sequence for someone. So stop complaing , there was plenty of flying time and fun fly for everyone and I thought that's what it is all about FUN, FRIENDS and flying......not like you're in it for the prizes or money now is it.

Oh and Next yr around this time Jamaica's Sun is just right....happy anniversary! You can always go JET BLUE!!!!

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

I can understand about having to drive all the way home on a Sunday, and having a kid that flies also would make it ruff with school and all. But......we only attend 4 or 5 of these a year so I want to make the most of them. I want to fly. As far as flying to show off....you have obviously not seen me fly :).......

As far as making all the pilots happy....I know you can't make everyone happy....being the VP of our club I can assure that I know this very well......but I would like to see a CD consider flying over travel time from time to time....I know if I was a CD I would. I know other pilots that I fly with feel the same way.....you pay $35 bucks, get a hotel, get food for the field, pay for gas, practice your butt off, take time off from work, etc.....just to fly 4 - 10 min rounds......

Just my opinion....

Pugs

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Basic allows you to get accustomed to having the judges and caller there while others are flying thier patterns. If you can fly, that minor distraction is not going to effect you much. My problem, I forget my name when my plane is in the air. I have had two very poor showings this year.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

I competed in Basic at the function rdcracer (great friend of ours) spoke about in the initial post. More than anything else, the Basic pilots had no idea that we were going to fly only 1 more sequence that Sunday morning. The initial impression (when we left at 5:30 Saturday evening) was that we would finish up the 3rd round with that final sequence and then have an additional 4th round. The reason the majority of the basic pilots were taken aback by this was because we just didn't know. That's a lot of driving back and forth to find out that you'd fly only once (I flew at 8:30 am Sunday morning) and wait the entire day.

Maybe if the Basic pilots had known what was in store for Sunday, the concerns wouldn't be as abundant.

Bruce, you did a great job scoring and I don't believe the complaints were thrown in your direction.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Hi, many of you don't know me, yet. I am new to aerobatics and can not buy the right airplane at present. I am basically between jobs and struggling. But, after I assisted in scribing for the judges at the last SCAT contest at the Condors field in Camarillo, CA, I am deeply interested in entering the competition for the fun of it. All I have to fly at present is a Global Wacky Waco, which is very squirrelly compared to other aircraft I have flown such as Extras, etc. On July 17 and July 18, 2004 - the SCAT crew flew at the Condors field and I learned a lot and am very interested in flying in the next SCAT contest which is towards the end of August. If you know of anyway I can fly a "decent" airplane for this, please call me at 805-482-3034 or on my cell at 805-551-2486. Thanks