Why Fly Basic?
 

I have been to 2 events now and at both the the basic class has been ripped off on rounds. It seems as if it is not important enough and gets pushed aside to make sure the other classes get all their rounds in. It seems to me we drive the same distance and pay the same entry fee but we havent flown 1 full round in 2 events on sunday. One event we didn't fly at all on sunday after getting a hotel and staying overnight. They say it is because time restraints but I don't see them cutting out the other classes. By the way the last event we made up 1/4 of the pilots.
OK now that I have vented let me know what you think. This is supposed to be the future of this competition.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Here in the Northwest Region, we place a very high importance on the Basic class. Since I started competing in IMAC in 2001, Basic has always flown as many or more sequences than the other classes. When the higher classes fly their unknown rounds, we let Basic fly one or two sequences. At our first contest this year, we even had basic fly 1 more sequence than the other classes. We do not have a championships points race for Basic because we try to encourage the better starting pilots to move to Sportsman, where they will be flying under the same rules as the 3 other classes (Intermediate, Advanced, and Unlimited).
- Francis

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

That is totally weak!

First ,they should only charge half the entrance fee for basic.I though that was the deal to get people envolved.At the pattern contest they where all like that.$5 bucks I think.The basic sequence goes by fast.They only give yearly standings(points) to sportsman and above.

[:@][:o][&o]:(


IF YOU ARE HOLDING A CONTEST AND ARE CHARGING FULL PRICE FOR ENTRANCE FEE FOR BASIC!STOP!NOW!oBEY ME!

ScottC

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

At times IMAC treats Basic as the "Red Headed Step child". It is important to let them fly all the rounds that the other class' fly. During the unknowns they should have basic fly one known sequence. Not all IMAC contests treat basic pilots bad.

At the first 2 contests that I have flown this year there have been 33 basic pilots, that is the future of Scale Aerobatics. At both of these contests the basic pilots flew 7 known sequences. Although this was not IMAC it was SCAT, they both are scale aerobatics.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

At the only contest I CD'd, Basic flew more rounds than any other class. This is because Sunday had only 1 unknown for all other classes, but basic flew the usuall two, and then the afternoon rounds were normal for everybody. I had the father of one of the basic pilots complain because the contest would drag on another hour. I told him he was welcome to leave and zero all afternoon rounds.

I think you have a local issue. They either want you to move up or go away.

-Darin
Ex-NW regional director

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

To piggy back on what Tony was saying, it sounds to me that they dont care about basic and/or are running a poorly run contest. time management is the key to get EVERYONE to fly thier rounds and on time. it can be done. SCAT does it quite well, with 45+ pilots the norm. a dozen or more basic pilots too..

They especially should pay attention if basic makes up 25% of your showing!

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

The contest are only as good as the people putting them on. I think IMAC needs help all the way around, in our state Minnesota, your lucky to have 15 people show up.
We started in it last year,went to one event had fun, decided to host a contest this year, but I am loosing interest fast.
If IMAC wants to grow they better start helping the new guys.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Hi,

33 pilots, 7 sequences @ ~6 min. per sequence = 23.1 hours of flying time. I averaged the time to take into account landing and take-off. How many other classes were there? Where did they fly? How many flight-lines did you run? How long was the meet?

Some people are full of ..it:eek:

Willem

P.S. Congrats on your B-day, Kyle! Stick with it;)

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

At the contest in question we flew off two flight lines. We flew a total 315 scored sequences over the course of the 2 days. We were done on Sunday at 2 pm. Flying started at 8:30 each day

Basic had 14 pilots. The reference to 33 pilots in the earlier post was to the total attendance at the first 2 JR-SCAT Series contest in 2004. As it was, Basic took an average of 1:5 minutes to fly a 2 sequence round. That is close to an average of 5 minutes per pilot.

Two things are at work here. The first is that the JR-SCAT Series has designed its sequences from the ground up to fly quickly with a minimum of wasted time in free passes and driving across the box needlessly. The second is that we work very hard to keep pilots moving. We always have the next 2 pilots staged. We launch the next pilot before the guy ahead is done (he goes deep and stays out of the way until his time to enter the box). We get the next guy up immediately in the event of a deadstick and so on.

As I keep harping on pilots at a contest, if each and every pilot at a 50 person event wastes just 30 seconds per sequences (easy to do) that will cost us nearly 2 hours lost time.

Bill Malvey
Director JR-SCAT Series

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

That typo should read that the 14Basic pilots took 1 hour and 5 minutes to fly a 2 sequence round.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Hi,

I figured he was talking about the entire attendance as 33 pilots, but he said 33 basic pilots:eek: Just cutting down on the BS. The meet that this thread refers to had 40 pilots of which 13 were basic I believe. Everyone flew 2 1/2 flights on Saturday and basic flew a single sequence flight on Sunday. The other classes flew a single seqence known and an unknown, so basic had one sequence less than the other classes. I agree that they could have fitted a full flight (2 sequences) for basic on Sunday. There were quite a few free-style pilots and we all went home at 4:30 (some with 7 hours or more of driving ahead).

Sometimes the availibility of judges required to judge a round has more to do with it than the time availible. The judges for the basic round on Sunday in this example still needed time to study their unknown and fly another known.

We all would like to fly 20 rounds at a meet, but the reality of it is that you can only expect 5-7 sequences per weekend. It's not about the quantity of flying, it's about the quality, so make each sequence count!

Later,

Willem

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

I was the Line Boss for the last contest referenced here. Complain all you want, but for a two day contest, ours had the most flying of any Florida contest yet this year, with 38 pilots (10 in Basic). Most pilots were very good about getting airborne on cue. Personally, I would have liked to see Basic fly a full two-sequence round on Sunday, but judges' time became an issue. A seventh sequence would not have allowed another sequence drop, so it's unlikely that contest results would have changed dramatically. One issue that screwed things up a little was not having the unknowns available until Sunday morning (not a purposely made decision). That required us to make time available to the contestant judges to study.

Something to learn about contests... It's very difficult to make one person happy, quite another to make 38. Learning to run a contest takes a few years, and good people skills. Complaining about being shorted one SEQUENCE (not a whole round, as was claimed) doesn't help. In actuality, Basic was allowed two sequence drops, just like any other class. Unknowns cannot be dropped, and do not count towards the six required to drop two. Then again some people will complain about a free lunch that's served cold.

Frankly, I think contests in FL are getting too populated, and next year we may require pre-registration to keep the numbers under 36 pilots. If kept to under 30-35, four rounds may be possible for all, weather permitting.


Well, see next year.

Erich Freymann
Bay City IMAC "Line Nazi"

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Complaining about being shorted one SEQUENCE (not a whole round, as was claimed) doesn't help.


To be truthful I didn't really go into it in true detail. We flew 2 1/2 rounds on Sat. and 1/2 round on Sun. We did not fly one whole round on sunday. We were not told we were not going to fly the final full round on Sunday until we were finished with the 1/2 round.
To be honest I really don't care I figure the writting is on the wall and we will just fly Sportsman in the future.
The question is when everyone else takes this attitude and there is no basic left where will they
shorten the program then?

Hey Willem
Ididn't get your e-mail before I left. I'd like to get together with you sometime and have Kyle get some pointers.
Let me know.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Our club here fly's knowns on Saturday unknowns on Sunday basic fly's another round of knowns and we strongly encourage only first timers and guy without IMAC legal planes fly basic.Try to keep out the sand baggers. Mark,

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

I said 33 basic pilots in TWO contests. 14 in one and 19 in the other. That is fact not BS.

As soon as the pilot finishes his seqence he moves to the side to the next pilot can start before the previous pilot has landed. As a pilot you take off when the pilot in front of you has 2 manuevers left. That way the you are ready to enter the box when the previous pilot has completed his sequence.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

This is exactly the result of treating basic as second class. Each class has a set of skills to master, including basic. I can always tell the pilots that skipped basic, they can snap, they can do rollers, they can do it all, except fly a straight line. Essentially, basic is designed to teach the very basic skill of flying a straight line and round loops. When I was in basic, I though a 45 degree line with nothing on it was stupid. Now I appreciate that this taught drawing a straight line. You should stay in basic until you are getting 7s on your lines. Then you are ready to move up.

If your local CDs are giving you short shrift in basic, you should complain, and loudly. You should not feel as though you have to move up to join the fun. You should be having the fun.

Bill gave you our SCAT secret - sequence construction and keeping it moving. Currently, the IMAC basic sequence has 4 passes in it. If it takes 10 seconds to make a pass and you fly 7 sequences in a contest with 20 basic pilots, those passes cost the event over 1.5 hours. Then you have the passes in the other classes. I understand the intent with the IMAC sequence design, but they are clearly designed to promote an agenda, not to help contests run smoothly and efficiently.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Hey Barry,
I "ran" into you at the Basin last week. I'm on my way out the door to get a new plane so I'll be ready for the SCAT contests coming up. I'll be flying basic. Did you get a new plane up?

Richard

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Basic is a class overlooked by CD's sometimes but even moreso by pilots. Too often people look at Basic and say "I can do that stuff.. I should fly Sportsman."

WRONG. I see WAY too many people moving up too fast who don't have a firm grasp on the most basic of elements. Unless you can fly the Basic sequence and get 8's every time with the occasional 9 or 10, you shouldn't move up. You NEED to learn the building blocks before you start in with the tougher maneuvers.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

I absolutely agree with this. Sadly, when CD's and other pilots place a heavy stigma on the Basic Class, as is often done, then it makes it hard for a pilot to stay where he should be until he develops the necessary skills to compete in the upper classes.

Basic is the lifeblood of aerobatics. Without it there will not be any upper class pilots, at least not any worth taking the time to judge!!

Basic is often one of the most competitive classes at the JR-SCAT Series contests, and I love seeing that!!! These guys are serious competitiors and not any less so just because their sequence is not as difficult as anohter.


In fact, Doug's criteria for moving out of Basic should be used for all classes. If you are not consistently near the top and scoring well all the time, then that is evidence that you still have something to learn where you are.

Bill

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Hi Richard,

Yep. I got my 39% Edge 540T done on last Thursday. I flew it, even took it to Phoenix. I shook it out some and found a loose engine box. That will be fixed this weekend.

They are having the annual Rally of the Giants this weekend in Camarillo. They are a great bunch of guys and its a safer place to fly. <G> I'm going to try to make it on Sunday.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Well with only two planes in the air it could happen anywhere but I know what you mean. I don't know if I'm going to be able to make it out to Camarillo as I have two planes to maiden on Saturday and Sunday is booked.

If I don't have the new Patty ready for the May 15 Riverside contest how do you think a 1/4 scale Pitts would do in Basic? I'll know more on Saturday but is it a waste of time to fly it in low level competition?

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

I would have to disagree with Doug C. I don't think basic is the place for guys to hang out in for years flying there 33-40%ers that are to lazy to get out and practice.But good enough to intimidated new comers with there sticks and non-IMAC planes just to grab a couple trophys. It is not like sportsman is much harder than basic, I think basic should be left to the beginners where without being intimidated by $$$$$$$$$$$$ and seasoned pilots. Mark,

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

cubdriver,

What you are saying is, basic is not a real class. It is just a way to get the entry fee from the non competitor and let them fly around. I personally agree 100% with what Doug wrote and so do a lot of our best pilots. Most of the top pilots in the US came up throught the ranks including basic, they just did it in pattern not IMAC. You have to crawl before you can walk.

There was a pattern thread talking about this subject within the last year.

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

Quest Just the opposite I think it is the most important class , I just don't like to see it abused by guys who who been around the flying game a long time and want to scare away new comers with $5000 planes that they have been flying for years. Mark,

RE: Why Fly Basic?
 

From what I seen , there were a few times I grab my kid and run for the truck, thought we were going to get hit. What the difference in what kind of plane or how much someone payed for it.
Sounds like a few people I know that just can,t afford the plane so they complain someone else has one.
It about becoming the best you can, with what skills you have.
Somepeople are just better than others no matter how much you practice. Some just don,t like to be beat.
Are there people out there that buy $5000 aircraft stay in basic for years, give up there weekends, travel for hours, just to impress someone?