Slow Rolls
 

I'm trying to master the the slow roll. I'd like to be able to do one roll along the path of the runway. I've been practicing over and over and I can't seem to get the hang of it. Any body have any pointers on how to do this? I'm flying a 60 size Ultrastick, I know it's not the best for clean aerobatics, but it should be able to do it, right?

RE: Slow Rolls
 

Minimize your control throws and burn lots of fuel.

RE: Slow Rolls
 

What will make the super slow roll hard is a lot of rudder to roll/elevator coupling. I think the Ultra Stick has a lot of this. You need a plane that flies knife-dge well to do this well. You can learn to do it with a poor plane with lots of practice but a really good plane will make your life so much easier.

Dan

RE: Slow Rolls
 

The Ultimate doesn't like to do knife edges very well. What do you consider a good practice plane?

RE: Slow Rolls
 

Anything that flies knifeedge easily will be a good place to start. A 60 size pattern plane would be a good choice. A lot of the sixty size scale planes will do well but usually get knocked by most because they are often too heavy for 3D that most guys want to do.

Dan

RE: Slow Rolls
 

Stick time, Stick time, Stick time. The plane does not matter. Any multi-chanel plane will do a slow roll. Just practice the correct amount of rudder and elevator.

RE: Slow Rolls
 

The good thing about slow rolls is that as long as the aircraft can sustain knife-edge flight for more than couple of seconds couplings doesn't matter much. There is plenty of time to correct for them during the time it takes to perform the roll ;-) !

I can't imagine an Ultimate not being suitable for slow rolls unless there is something that is seriously wrong with it.

As others have written, all it takes is practice, lots of it...

Here is a link with some useful information: [link=http://www.masportaviator.com/pdfs/SAArticleTheRoll8-28-04.pdf#search=%22%22slow%20roll%22%20%2Baerobatic% 22]Slow Roll[/link]

/Red B.

RE: Slow Rolls
 

I agree that an Ultimate would be a good choice but in the first post he said Ultra Stick.

I agree that someone good on the sticks can slow roll anything. I have always loved doing horizon to horizon slow rolls and I know what makes them easier. You can play golf with a baseball bat but it is not the best way to learn and not nearly as much fun.

Dan

RE: Slow Rolls
 

OK, Practice is a given.

Thanks for the link Red.

I'm building an Extra, which should be a little cleaner, I was just hoping I could figure it out on the Ultrastick. I might buy a small eletric pattern to practice in the meantime. What do you think about the Brio from Eflite?

RE: Slow Rolls
 

I think that would be a good choice though I have never flown one. Another thought is that the money you spend on the Brio you might be able to get a simulator and that would be a great way to learn slow rolls and lots of other things.

Dan

RE: Slow Rolls
 

In my opinion learn to do 4 point rolls first. Then move on to 8 point. The hesitation rolls will teach you the mix and not be so critical. The smooth flow of everything together is what makes a slow roll a slow roll. It is nothing but a fluid 8 point roll.... True a plane with no coupling or adverse yaw is a great help but if you can learn the roll on a plane that is not that great for it then you will be miles ahead when you get a plane that rolls very clean....

My opinion..

Rick

RE: Slow Rolls
 

I agree with the ones that say that the airplane is not that critital. Four years ago, I built a GP Easy Sport as my second airplane after three months of flying my trainer. Then after two more months of flying the easy sport, I was saying that the easy sport was not good enough for me any more. When, the owner of my LHS heard me at the field, he asked me to let him fly my easy sport. Man, I had never seen the easy sport performing so nice. He taught me a good lesson that day. Most of the time, we think the airplane is not that good. When in reality, us pilots are not that good.

I also agree that there are some airplanes that would be harder and harder to train with. But, if we can control a beast, a beauty would be a piece of cake. That was the lesson this guy taught me with the Easy Sport four years ago.

This year, I have decided to start IMAC basic next year. Because of that, I have been practicing at least two hours of flying time each week. I have been flying a GP Dazzler this year. Every week I see the little plane perform better and better. The rolls I do with it are becoming more and more axial. My stick movement is smoother. I also took the time to work on the balance and trimming of the airplane. There is less effort when we fly a well balanced airplane.

This winter, I will be building a GP Giles with a .75 engine (60" wing span) and a GP Extra with a .90 engine (64" wing span). I am confident that I will do much better with these two models than I can do with the Dazzler. At the end, I can make the Dazzler perform because the airplane does what I want it to do compared to me reacting to what the airplane is doing.

My 2 cents.

RE: Slow Rolls
 

I have a simulator, but maybe it's the lack of depth perception, I don't seem to gain anything from it. I can practice on the simulator but when I go to the field it's like I'm learning it all over again.

OK, I've been busy so I haven't had a chance to read Red's article yet. Could somebody explain coupling in a 100 words or less. I heard someone talking about it yesterday and I don't understand it yet. They were saying something about adjusting the ailerons so that there is more down than up to compensate for coupling. Is this something I can do to the Ultrastick?

RE: Slow Rolls
 

real,

The simulator helps to a certain point. It has helped me to improve the visual/motor coordination between airplane position to next move in stick. First, you start thinking in what to do when the airplane is at 90-degree (full bank), at 180-degree, at 270-degree, etc. You must do this over and over. The more you do it, the more you will start doing it naturally, less thinking. This is known as compiling knowledge. After knowledge is properly compiled, it goes to the sub-concious level which is at least 10-times more powerfull than concious level. An example of this is driving a manual-transmission car. At first, it is difficult to coordinate engine revs, car speed, car direction, shifting gears, etc., all at the same time. The more we do it, the easier it becomes. Some tasks go to the subconcious level while other tasks are kept at the concious level. At the end, shifting gears go to the subconcious level.

For example, I learned to do a rolling circle in the simulator before I could do it in the field. After many weeks of focused practice (sim and field), I did it at the field. Now, I can do more than one rolling circle in one shot. I am not saying simulator replaces field practice, but it really helps. But preactice is never over. There is allways room for improvement. Every article I have read from IMAC champs, they coincide in one thing, "burning gallons and gallons of fuel" is a key factor for success.

I will look around for a good definition of coupling.

RE: Slow Rolls
 

Realwiz,

Coupling means that two (or more) of the three flight axes respond when only one control input is given. Example most will be familiar with - rudder. When you apply rudder in an aerobatic plane, you would like for the airplane to ONLY respond in yaw. However, I am not aware of any airplane that does this. Typically, you will also get some roll and some pitch - these are "coupled" with yaw. Most competition aerobatic pilots use computer radios to mix on channel to another in the transmitter and remove this coupling.

So how does this help your slow roll? Well, when you start rolling and approach knife edge, you will have to apply some rudder to keep the plane from falling. When you apply this rudder, if the plane has coupling, the roll rate will change and the nose will move off heading. If the coupling is severe, it really makes flying a smooth slow roll difficult.

It is true that practice will improve things considerable, but a well trimmed airplane makes slow rolls much easier - and keeps you from learning bad habits that you will have to correct later!

Ken

RE: Slow Rolls
 

I'm practicing on the simulator because we've had 20mph winds all weekend. It's difficult because I can't tell if I'm going in a straight line over the runway, or if I'm gaining or losing altitude. There's no frame of reference. I'm using Realflight G2, I got fed up so I ordered G3 hoping that it 3D physics engine and enhanced graphics will help.

I have a question about exponential. I use it for sport flying because it make it easier to fly. My question is when flying pattern do you want to use exponential, or does it slow down the manuevers or make them less crisp? I heard some guy who said that when flying 3D you want to set negative expo so that the plane is more responsive.

RE: Slow Rolls
 

You should be able to do a slow roll with your plane... Making them long straight and graceful just takes time, but most any aerobatic plane that can fly knife edge at all can do a decent slow roll. At least good enough to learn on.


No one has really asked yet so I will. Exactly what sort of problems are you having?

At what point in the roll are things going wrong and what is going wrong?

RE: Slow Rolls
 

The way I learned was to break it down into components:

First, I learned to fly knife edge for one end of thhe field to another (both directions) at a constant height and heading.
Second, I learned to fly a 4 point roll.
Lastly, I started blending eveything together by elliminating the hesitations in the 4 point roll.

One helpfull tip: set your low aileron rates WAY down and fly the maneuver on LOW rates.

RE: Slow Rolls
 

[color=#0000FF]The Slow Roll.
I love the Slow Roll it is one sexy maneuver. first off your Ultra Stick can perform a Slow Roll. It will not perform the maneuver like a Pattern plane but it will do it.
You need airspeed you must also pull your nose up about 5 degrees just before you enter the maneuver. Then practice the way luvbipes learned how break it down into smaller parts then after you learn how to fly knife edge in a straight line put the whole thing together, I use a lot of throw in my airplanes But I also use EXPO on Ail Eliv and Rud. I do not like Low Rates and High rates. My rates are alway the same Expo is the key. You need to try and find out what works best for you and practice. Because you will get it:)
Have Fun Udet

RE: Slow Rolls
 

I agree, the slow roll looks so much better to me than all the high power maneuvers like the lumchaavek (sp). Ultimately I would like to learn how to do a rolling circle. My jaw dropped when I saw Quique Somenzini do a rolling circle inside a high school gymnasium at the XFC. I thought that contest was stolen from him by some quack who put a helicopter tailroter on an airplane. The judges must have been looking at the hooters girls when Quique was flying. :)

Thanks for the pointers on flying the Ultrastick. I've been practicing on Realflight, because we've had 20-30 mph winds almost everyday.

RE: Slow Rolls
 

Since this IS the IMAC forum, I will point out that your plane should NOT pitch up as you begin the roll, it is a downgrade. The plane should roll like it's on a string and you need to blend in top rudder as you roll off of upright to achieve that, followed of course by elevator and then rudder again as you progress around the roll. The plane's angle of attack will change, but it's heading should not. Easier said than done, of course.:D


Mark

RE: Slow Rolls
 

I once saw Quique doing a rolling loop and that was something to behold.

RE: Slow Rolls
 

guys who grew up on the old pattern flying can give you some good help
- we used to practice flying it from horizon to horizon as far as you could see the thing
Here is my new IMAC plane -and it really does nice slow rolls

RE: Slow Rolls
 

Dick,
Do the stickers say "ZZ Super 80"?
Your design?
Any more information on it?
Thanks!
JLK

RE: Slow Rolls
 

The model is an ARF a H9 EDGE 33% with a ZDZ80J engine - excellent combo
The plane has been tweaked a bit -span shortened - spinner extended . Tip sighting plates
weight is under 22 lbs and the present setup cranks the ZM26x10 (a 3Dprop)at 7100static and 8400 in the air.
makes close in flying easier as speed recovery is instant- kinda like a good flat foam electric - --zippy.
nex up it gets full tuned internal pipe - just got the setup yesterday -serious power boost.