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bjamesjr 01-04-2009 04:28 PM

2009 Basic Narrative
 
Here it is, if you find anything wrong, please let me know and I'll correct it. Please remember that this is in no way replaces the need to learn Aresti.

I have pulled the NOTES section. It has started a small war in here and via my email so this will be the last time I do something like this

2009 Basic Sequence Narrative

Figure 1 – 45 Degree upline. Just before you get to center, pull up to a 45-degree line. Hold this line for a long enough distance to set yourself up for the next maneuver and then push to exit upright and level. You want to try to exit this maneuver at center. The next maneuver requires one half of a loop coming down so you will need some altitude. Also remember that a 45-degree line is actually quite steep. Your caller can help by using the Aresti and using the 45-degree line against the horizon. A 45-degree line at the ends will look very different from the center so be aware of that

Figure 2 – Split “S”. This is an end maneuver. Coming from the previous maneuver you will be flying from roughly the center to the start of this maneuver near the end of your airspace. Begin by executing ½ roll to inverted and wings level, then executing an immediate pull to a one half loop. There should be no discernable line between the ½ roll and pull. Though not really necessary, the key here is to exit right at the same altitude that you started the 45-degree upline. This will help with your overall ACS score.

Figure 3 – Hammerhead. Begin this figure by applying full throttle and executing a gentle pull to a vertical upline. Use the rudder to keep the plane tracking straight up. Once you have reached sufficient altitude, begin to decrease the power. Leave 3 or 4 clicks of power on, and just before the plane stops moving, apply full rudder and come back to idle. It is almost always easiest to hammer INTO the wind if there is a crosswind. If the wind is down the runway, hammering either left or right is OK. Once the plane starts to pivot, the throttle can be reduced to idle. One method of preventing the plane from wagging its tail after the pivot is to keep some rudder input after the pivot and slowly take it out as the plane goes down. Though a bit harder to do, another method is to come out of the rudder just as the nose starts to pivot downwards. Also do not let the wings come off level. If you plane is trimmed well and the radio mixes are proper, this is not likely to happen as your mixes will take care of it but at the same time certain mixes can create this problem, it all depends on what aileron you had to mix in with the rudder. Almost all planes need some kind of rudder/ aileron mix. At the bottom of the line, execute a gentle pull to a horizontal exit and increase the throttle. Try to make the entry radius and exit radius equal don’t execute a sharp pull at the bottom. You should now be flying back to the center.

Figure 4 – One Full Roll. Just before you get to center, start an aileron roll. You will not be judged on the rate of the roll – it can be as fast or as slow as you like. Typically, the faster you roll, the harder it is to stop it with the wings level. Give a little down elevator while you are inverted so that you don’t lose altitude, and stop the roll with your wings level. For the best score do not let the nose come off the line at any time during the roll (pitch or yaw), keep the roll rate exactly the same all the way through the maneuver and stop with the wings level.

Figure 5 - Teardrop. As you get to the end, pull a gentle radius to a 45-degree upline. Fly this line a short distance and pull a 5/8th loop to a vertical downline. Execute a ½ roll on that downline. Remember that roll must be centered on the line between the point where the downline is established and your pull out to level flight. The loop can be as tight or as open as you want. If you find you are in too close, make the partial loop nice and tight and of you are out too far, make it nice and big to help get yourself back in. Remember that for the best scores, keep the loop constant no matter how big or little, keep the roll rate constant and make sure you do a 45-degree line (remember it’s going to look a little different since you are on the end) and the downline is truly vertical using the rudder and elevator. Now fly towards the center for the next maneuver.

Figure 6 - Loop. This figure looks easy and is probably the first aerobatic maneuver you flew when learning to fly. It is, however, extremely difficult to fly well. Just before center, begin by increasing the throttle to full power, and start a gentle pull. The size of the loop is not judged, but the bigger the loop, the harder it is to make perfect. Keep the radius consistent using the elevator and wind correct with rudder if necessary as you execute the first half of the loop. As you come over the top, you may need to keep a fair amount of power as this portion will be flown into the wind. You may even need to apply some down elevator across the top of the loop to keep it round. As the plane starts down the backside of the loop, decrease power smoothly to idle and use the elevator to keep the radius consistent. Finally, increase the power as you come back to horizontal flight. The loop should start and stop in the exact same place at the same altitude for the best possible score which will help ensure that it was round and not some other shape. You will quite often see judges take a pen or a finger and place it right on the point where the airplane started the first pull. This lets them see where the plane should end up at. Be sure when using the elevator, not to “Show” the judges any type of flat spot in the loops radius. Each discernable flat spot is one full point off your score.

Figure 7 - Sharks Tooth. Fly towards the end of the field, and increase power to full throttle. Execute a gentle pull to a vertical upline. As before, use the rudder to maintain a nice vertical track. Execute a gentle pull across the top of the figure to an inverted 45-degree downline coming back towards yourself and decrease the power to idle or close to idle. Hold down elevator to maintain a nice line (not too shallow!) and then complete a half roll to upright. Hold this line and then execute a gentle pull back to horizontal flight and increase the throttle. You will now be flying to the other end before starting the next maneuver so be sure to keep this line level in all respects as it can be quite long.

Figure 8 - Half Reverse Half Cuban 8. Just before getting to the end, begin by increasing the throttle to full power and execute a pull to a 45-degree upline. On the upline, execute a 1/2 roll to inverted, now flying the same distance as you did before the 1/2 roll pull 5/8th loop to level flight. In this maneuver be sure to center the 1/2 roll on the 45-degree line and be sure that the 45-degree line is actually 45 degrees, remember, you are now at the end so it will look different than in the center. As with the other loop elements, be sure to keep the radius smooth and the same all the way through.

Figure 9 - Vertical line with a ½ roll This is another end maneuver so after you complete the previous maneuver fly all the way down to the other end keeping the line level in all respects. You also need to be plenty high for the final maneuver as a two turn spin will eat up a lot of airspace coming down. Don’t forget to center the ½ roll on the vertical line. Pull 90 degrees to vertical, fly a given distance and perform a ½ roll, fly the exact same distance as you did before you preformed the ½ roll and push to level.

Figure 10 – Two turn positive spin. This maneuver is best viewed and judged at center. You are trying to time the stall to be right in front of where you are standing as this will help you and the judges see the stall and give you the best score. Most people zero this maneuver right here as the plane must stall and the way to tell is the nose and one wing will drop.

As you approach the center of the field at a high altitude, begin to reduce the throttle smoothly. As the plane slows, you will have to feed in up elevator to keep it from descending. This will gradually bring the nose up. Once the throttle has reached idle, keep feeding in up elevator until the nose drops in a stall. You will also have to be keeping the line straight with rudder – particularly if there is any crosswind and your airspeed decreases. Don’t worry if the nose of the plane is cocked 45 degrees before the stall – it is most important to keep the line straight! As the nose drops, feed in rudder in the same direction as the wing that is falling right rudder if the right wing is falling and left rudder if the left wing is falling. Once the spin begins, go to full rudder and full aileron in the same direction (you should already be at full up elevator). After 2 turns, neutralize all controls to stop the spin. If the nose is high, give down elevator to establish a vertical downline. After the downline has been established, execute a gentle pull to horizontal flight and increase the throttle.


Grelker 01-04-2009 06:35 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
I can read AResti, but I can't always remember the names of the manuevers. So if someone says do a split s, i have no idea what that is, but i can read the aresti for it and do the manuever. that's what happens when you get over 50

Grelker 01-04-2009 06:36 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
BTW, i really appreciate the hints on how to make the moves look good for scoring. thanks

bjamesjr 01-04-2009 07:10 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 


ORIGINAL: Grelker
that's what happens when you get over 50
I resemble that remark :D

bjamesjr 01-04-2009 07:12 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 


ORIGINAL: Grelker

BTW, i really appreciate the hints on how to make the moves look good for scoring. thanks
Np problem. I spend lots of time in the judges chair so I have a fair bit of experience and have been taught judging by some really knowledgeable Unlimited pilots and long time judging instructors (Kent Porter, Ty Lyman, Dave Michaels, Albert Santiago just to name a few)

bjamesjr 01-04-2009 07:13 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
I do have this in a PDF version. If anyone wants a copy,shoot me a PM with your email address and I'll forward it to you

Bill Martins 01-04-2009 10:30 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
James,

I think manuever 8 is a reverse cuban. 45 upline, half roll to invert, pull through loop to horizontal.

If I missed it I apologize.

I really liked your narrative.

Thanks for taking the time to instruct us.

Bill

bjamesjr 01-04-2009 10:39 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 


ORIGINAL: Bill Martins

James,

I think manuever 8 is a reverse cuban. 45 upline, half roll to invert, pull through loop to horizontal.

If I missed it I apologize.

I really liked your narrative.

Thanks for taking the time to instruct us.

Bill
Bill,

I stand corrected, I've changed it and thanks for pointing it out. I was copying stuff from the 2008 version and did not realize the problem

Bill James

exeter_acres 01-05-2009 09:11 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
a perfect example of why we all need to read aresti.......

;)

bjamesjr 01-05-2009 04:01 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 


ORIGINAL: exeter_acres

a perfect example of why we all need to read aresti.......

;)
At least I didn't do it while calling for someone ;)

exeter_acres 01-05-2009 04:12 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
LOL!!

Hey!! I resemble that remark!

Jetdesign 01-06-2009 12:24 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
Just wanted to say thanks again. Arresti seemed pretty foreign to me, but after looking at the narrative and the Arresti schedule side-by-side, it all became pretty clear. Basically I had to read the narrative once, and now think I can just hang on to the Arresti schedule and be all set;) I really feel that this was the best way for me to learn Arresti, or at least get started with it.

Danny Baker 01-07-2009 03:51 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
Let's see who can post the correct answers to the follow:

The first thing is there is no aerobatic box. This has been replaced by the Airspace Control Score.

1. There IS an Aerobatic box out there. It has NOT been replaced by anything. Your score will be zero for that manuever if your plane is "out of the box". Where is our aerobatic box in relation to where we stand?

the Airspace Control Score. This score is based on the flow of the sequence

2. The airspace control score is not based on the flow of the sequence. What is the criteria?

Contests are not cancelled because of wind until it reaches 25 to 30 mph.

3. This is not the rule in the F&JG? What is the rule?

This post is meant to help us all know where the rules of IMAC are, and show that we all need know the correct rules. #3 is trivial, #1 and #2 are very important I feel. Let's stop here and log on the IMAC site and click on the Flying and Judging Guide to learn the correct answers to the above. K.

exeter_acres 01-07-2009 07:46 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
I cannot find a reference to box dimensions.....
please advise

4.3 Airspace Control Score
Judges will evaluate each individual sequence
flown, in its entirety, for overall airspace control.
Each judged Known and Unknown sequence,
shall have one “figure” added to the end of the
score sheet, after individually judged maneuvers.
This figure shall be known as the Airspace
Control Score and will be assigned by each
judge. The Airspace Control Score will have a K
value dependent on the class flown. This score
will then be multiplied by the K Value for the
individual class.
The following standard will be used for
accessing the pilot’s performance in maintaining
control and awareness of the aerobatic airspace
and placing figures in the airspace in a manner
that allow the figures to be optimally judges.
The highest standard for Airspace Control will
be the pilot that exhibits a significant ability to
control the location of the aircraft inside the
airspace, relative to the judges, which results in a
tight footprint and has the aircraft such that it can
be optimally judged at all times. The pilot that
exhibits excellent airspace control should receive
a ten (10).
The lowest standard for Airspace Control will be
the pilot that exhibits a poor ability to control the
location of the aircraft inside the airspace,
relative to the judges, which results in an
excessively large footprint and has the aircraft
consistently so far away as to be difficult to
properly judge. The pilot that exhibits very poor
airspace control should receive a zero (0). Pilots
exhibiting airspace control within the range of
these two standards will be graded with a range
of possible scores from ten (10) to zero (0) in
whole point increments.
The K factors for the Airspace Control Score are:
Basic = 3K
Sportsman = 6K
Intermediate = 9K
Advanced = 12K
Unlimited = 15K

Silent-AV8R 01-07-2009 12:23 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 


ORIGINAL: Danny Baker

Let's see who can post the correct answers to the follow:

The first thing is there is no aerobatic box. This has been replaced by the Airspace Control Score.

1. There IS an Aerobatic box out there. It has NOT been replaced by anything. Your score will be zero for that manuever if your plane is "out of the box". Where is our aerobatic box in relation to where we stand?
Page SCA-4: 12. Aerobatic Airspace: Refer to Flying and Judging Guide, Rule 4.1.

Page SCA-9:
4. Aerobatic Airspace:
4.1: X-Axis and Y-Axis
The X-Axis is the main axis of flight, parallel to the flight line. The Y-Axis is perpendicular to the X-Axis (flight line).
4.2: Deadline.
The ―Deadline‖ is located 100 feet (30.5 meters) in front of the contestant. This line delimits the ―no-fly‖ zone for safety reasons. The judges shall zero (0) any maneuver where the aircraft completely crosses this deadline.

There is no longer a defined "box" in the sense most people think. There is just the airspace in front of you. Therefore there cannot be a zero given for being out of the box.



the Airspace Control Score. This score is based on the flow of the sequence

2. The airspace control score is not based on the flow of the sequence. What is the criteria?
See the post above by Exeter. Direct quote of the rule. "Flow", whatever that is, has nothing to do with this score. The actual intent of this rule was to attempt to control the footprint of the sequence as an indirect means of further litigating the noise issue. Reduce the footprint, reduce the sound footprint.



Contests are not cancelled because of wind until it reaches 25 to 30 mph.

3. This is not the rule in the F&JG? What is the rule?
AMA Rule book. General Section. Page 3:

DELAY OR CANCELLATION OF EVENTS
Under certain conditions a sanctioned event may be canceled. Where site availability is withdrawn prior to the event, AMA Headquarters should be notified in writing immediately. Every effort will be made to provide news of such cancellations in the Model Aviation event calendar.

Typically, such cancellation is weather-related. Conditions to be considered for the cancellation of an event due to weather or natural causes include, but are not limited to:
Wind - strong and sustained. While wind speeds of 40 mph have been arbitrarily listed as a maximum, it should be noted that the type of models being flown dictate whether the event can be flown safely. Exceptionally strong gusts and wind direction in relation to the field layout are important considerations.

Beyond that, a CD has every right to exercise their judgment as to when the weather conditions are no longer conducive to the safe conduct of the contest. For instance, a 20 mph cross wind directly into your face is different than a 25 mph wind straight down the runway.


Danny Baker 01-07-2009 07:01 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
You guys did great. The correct rule is posted above for the issues we are discussing. Thanks to all.

dicksnyder 01-11-2009 09:09 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
Just looked at the Basic Narrative. Good job. Is there anyone or anyplace I could find narratives for the other classes? I'm too old to want to compete anymore, but are several young fellers I have been helping, and I/We
could sure use something to help their and my skills get better.
Thanks, Dick Snyder [email protected]

exeter_acres 01-11-2009 09:40 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
IMveryHO....then the best thing you could do is teach them Aresti,,,,

it is sooo important to learn.

boosted180 01-12-2009 08:46 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
does anyone know if there's a video somewhere of the 2009 basic sequence? it's easier to memorize the sequence if i watch it being flown a few times rather than just reading it over and over again.

Bob_S 01-12-2009 11:51 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 


ORIGINAL: boosted180

does anyone know if there's a video somewhere of the 2009 basic sequence? it's easier to memorize the sequence if i watch it being flown a few times rather than just reading it over and over again.
http://www.rcvideohub.com/play.php?vid=109

rodney tanner 01-12-2009 05:00 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
Bob.
Great!
Thanks!

dicksnyder 01-14-2009 09:38 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
I understand reading Aresti is a must, and I can do that as I have the Aresti stuff. BUT after reading the Basic narrative it is easier to tell my guys what maneuvers are. For instance can you look at the Aresti for a teardrop and know what to call it? there arre others the same way. I would still like to know where I can find narratives for the other classes. I found them a few years ago from a club up in Canada. Surely there is somebody out there that would do it for us old/new guys.
Thanks, Dick Snyder [email protected]

Danny Baker 01-14-2009 04:45 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
Dick: Imac has changed over the recent years vs. the past. Aresti is now taught at all IMAC judging schools. And guys have shyed away from the narrative versions for the savings of time. May I suggest looking onto the IMAC web site and downloading the link that will teach your guys how to read aresti. As a side note, if any of your guys are planning on flying in sportsman or higher classes, the unknown flight on Sunday at a competition will be handed to them in aresti form only, with no narrative. Go through the link for aresti reading and post your questions here and we'll try to answer any questions you have.

Post #1 is great for the new guys, but you can't use this on the flight line. Post #1 is NOT a "call sheet". It's too long winded in text to be a call sheet. Your pilot will be on manuever #4 by the time you finish reading the text for manuever #1 from the narrative above. Being able to read aresti solves this important flight line issue.

We are here for you, try the link on the IMAC site, and ask anything you need. Aresti is very simple in the lower classes.
Take care, Dan.

Bob_S 01-15-2009 10:52 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 


ORIGINAL: Danny Baker
Being able to read aresti solves this important flight line issue.


That is true enough but the caller still has to say words to the pilot. So technically (if you remove practice etc) only the caller needs to know it.

Seriously though, I wonder if is asking for a "how to properly fly the figure" text instead of a "what is the figure". In the first narrative, he not only gives the how to (pull to vertical, 1/2 roll on the upline etc) but also gives scoring critera. So maybe the AMA rulebook would help. I know it helped me to understand exactly what is expected of each figure.

But really, understanding of them both is really required. You can read Aresti, but if you do not know the judging criteria you'll never do well.

AMA Rules for Scale Aerobatics http://www.modelaircraft.org/UserFil...Aerobatics.pdf


Bob_S 01-15-2009 11:07 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 

ORIGINAL: Bob_S



ORIGINAL: Danny Baker
Being able to read aresti solves this important flight line issue.


That is true enough but the caller still has to say words to the pilot. So technically (if you remove practice etc) only the caller needs to know it.

Seriously though, I wonder if is asking for a "how to properly fly the figure" text instead of a "what is the figure". In the first narrative, he not only gives the how to (pull to vertical, 1/2 roll on the upline etc) but also gives scoring critera. So maybe the AMA rulebook would help. I know it helped me to understand exactly what is expected of each figure.

But really, understanding of them both is really required. You can read Aresti, but if you do not know the judging criteria you'll never do well.

AMA Rules for Scale Aerobatics http://www.modelaircraft.org/UserFil...Aerobatics.pdf

Maybe he's just asking for a "how to call it" text version. Looking at the aresti is one thing but the caller still has to verbalize it. If that is what he's needing then I suggest you just call each leg of the figure as they fly it. For example in that Tear Drop in the sportsman sequence, I might start by saying "Teardrop" as soon as they complete the previous figure. Then I would say "Pull to a 45 upline, positive snap on the upline." After they do the snap I would continue "Pull three quarter inside loop to a 45 downline; one half roll on the downline". After they do the half roll I would say "Pull to exit upright."


Silent-AV8R 01-15-2009 12:11 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 


ORIGINAL: Bob_S


Seriously though, I wonder if is asking for a "how to properly fly the figure" text instead of a "what is the figure". In the first narrative, he not only gives the how to (pull to vertical, 1/2 roll on the upline etc) but also gives scoring critera.

Unfortunately he included criteria that do no exist in the rule book. Comments about entry and exit altitudes and such.

Aresti is a critical skill to obtain. It is very easy to do as well. But then you also need to have the scoring criteria clearly in your head not only while flying a contest but during practice.

The thing about Aresti is it is faster than talking. Your caller can look at the flimsy and then call it faster than he can read it and say it.

Bob_S 01-15-2009 01:08 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

The thing about Aresti is it is faster than talking. Your caller can look at the flimsy and then call it faster than he can read it and say it.
I agree. I think what a lot of people are missing is the communication from the caller to the pilot.

Danny Baker 01-15-2009 03:59 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
There won't be time in the contest flight to "call" any scoring criteria such as, "be sure to center this half roll on the downline". Your pilot will be in the ground before you "call" that statement and then call for him to push or pull to exit. There are judging schools going on all over the country over the next two months or so. Check out the IMAC site and you'll see one near you. Have all your guys that you are helping there. Actually it's the pilot that needs to know aresti as well as the coach. The pilot needs to have the scoring criteria in his head as he's flying. This way the "call'' can be shorthand words like in the previous post.
Judging Schools will teach your guys more than you or I can teach them in two months of flying every weekend.
Hope this helps, Dan

Zeeb 01-16-2009 11:50 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
You know as a relative newcomer to IMAC I can appreciate both sides of the arguments presented in this thread.

However it also IMHO, demonstrates one of the critical issues right now and that is consistent judging which folks are now working hard to standardize and that's a good thing.

What isn't good about this thread is that bjames tried to help out newbies or folks who might be interested in learning more about and possibly participating in IMAC. For those people who have read this thread, all you've done is scare 'em off....:eek:

I was one of those who was initially of a mind to just forget the whole thing rather than spend time memorizing a bunch of diagrams which meant nothing to me and don't even identify what the manuever is called. Until I found a narrative such as the one posted first in this thread. By going through that and correlating the descriptions of the maneuver with the diagrams, I got started on learning Aresti. Had it not been for that, I'd have just given it a pass. I've experienced the same reluctance I had with other local club members who have either expressed an interest or whom I've tried to introduce to IMAC.

I want to say thanks to bjames for taking the time to do the narrative and get it posted as I've already handed it out to a number of guys who are interested in giving RC aerobatics a try. I'm hoping that someone will continue to post narratives for at least the Basic and Sportsman categories in the future as they've done in the past, they've been a lot of help getting new folks started/interested.

The discussion on the rules and judging is merited, but it ought'a be in a different thread.

JMHO....

Danny Baker 01-16-2009 04:51 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
If it will help anyone out. There is video on Flying Gaints (www.flyinggaints.com) of all the seqences flown. This is video of an airplane actually in the sky doing the manuevers. All classes are flown. Registration to the site is free, it's a site that is very similar to this one. Look under the forums section, Imac forums section, general Imac discussions section, you'll see it.

brknprops-deleted 01-18-2009 03:19 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
Z - I am not sure I understand your concern. Narratives that are helpful tend to be those that are simple decoding of Aresti, such as a the invidual elements that make up a figure. When they get into judging criteria, if they do not follow the language of the rules, they are of little value. What happens though, is that people read them instead of the rules, and the narrative becomes what is quoted, rather than the rule, and that can lead to judging issues. these threads are useful because it brings to light misunderstandng of the rules, and in doing so, creates better judges and better informed competitors. Aresti is a simple and straightforward language, and while i think you can survive in basic without being able to read it, the unknowns in the upper classes pretty much require it. As Danny said, trying to fly a sequence off a narrative is very difficult and requires the caller to be focused on the narrative rather than the flight. Using Aresti only requires a quick glimpse, even for complex figures.

The FAI catalog can be used to construct literally thousands of figures, the larger majority of which do not have names. An Immelman by definition is a half inside loop followed by a half roll. Change the roll to a 1 1/2 snap and it is no longer an Immelman and the caller and pilot need to come up with how it is to be called. Names like teardrop and bowtie are used by convention, but they do not refer to a specific figure, only its outline.


Bob_S 01-18-2009 06:48 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 


ORIGINAL: brknprops
Aresti is a simple and straightforward language, and while i think you can survive in basic without being able to read it, the unknowns in the upper classes pretty much require it. As Danny said, trying to fly a sequence off a narrative is very difficult and requires the caller to be focused on the narrative rather than the flight. Using Aresti only requires a quick glimpse, even for complex figures.
I think it is far more important for the caller to know Aresti than the pilot. After all, the pilot isn't looking at the sheet so it doesn't matter to him whether it is words or symbols. To use your example of unknowns, the pilots may try to memorize the sequence prior to flying it and I'm sure that many can memorize it, but all of them depend on the caller to articulate with words what the Aresti symbols say.

I can read the Aresti and by that alone can figure out what to fly. I think I also know how to fly it based on the rules. (Execution is a different story though! LOL) But the first time I had to call for someone I didn't have a clue what to say. I think this communication is a key part that is missing. "What are the words used between the caller and pilot" is something that is available in very few places. So while it is important to know Aresti, it simply cannot fill that gap.

I'm bringing this up again because Dicksnyder was asking about how to tell a pilot what to fly and also because of my own difficulties in calling for someone. In my opinion, this is a critical communication skill and isn't really illustrated anywhere save a few videos.

Danny Baker 01-18-2009 08:01 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
Most all pilots are also callers for their fellow' pilot. One thing I have learned when I went to "calling" the manuever straight from the aresti sheet is: Now there's time for me to look up and help coach my pilot through the maneuver. As an example, my pilot may not see that his humpty is falling off track since his eyes and his plane are so high up and all he sees is blue sky. I can now tell him, " right rudder over the top", and my pilot will do it, trusting me that I've looked down at the treeline or the runway and determined that he's tracking off. If we are reading text from a written sheet the caller will have not have the same amount of time to give "in the manuever" coaching. I used to call off a sheet of text, switch to calling off the aresti a few years ago. Will never go back. I will say, that when I started out, I called off written text though.

dicksnyder 01-18-2009 08:49 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
[email protected]

Zeeb 01-19-2009 09:55 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 


ORIGINAL: brknprops

Z - I am not sure I understand your concern.

The problem is that these discussions go way overboard toward those individuals who start out wanting to compete.

In my experience and this includes me, I had no intention of going to any contests but wanted to get into the aerobatics as a means to improve my flying skills. There are a number of guys at our club who have started playing around with the basic sequence and telling them up front they've got to learn Aresti first is just a deal killer.

I venture to say that almost all of those who would use a narrative will never go any further than a Basic sequence and not many of them will ever go to a contest. But if we don't try to introduce new folks to this area of the hobby, where will they come from?

While my experience so far has been a mostly good one with meeting some really friendly and helpful people, IMAC also has it's elitists and those who treat a question from a newcomer as not worth answering. In a thread like this, the opinions expressed by some if read by a newbie would just say "you either learn Aresti or don't bother" and that's not what's needed. Those who find the experience fun and or challenging, will go on and find out that they need to learn Aresti and pay attention to the rules and judging criteria. As I said, the disscussion itself has merit and things that need to be clarified are being covered in a manor more suitable to a thread on judging which wouldn't interest most newbies when they're first starting out. In my case, of the six or so individuals who I've introduced to the concept of scale aerobatics, there's only one who MIGHT be interested in this discussion. None of them (I suspect) would do anything with it this year if they had to learn Aresti in order to go out to the field and fly the sequence since there wasn't a narrative available.

Now the guys I fly with who do compete would have their own ideas/opinions about the discussion and might add to it if they saw it, but they most likely won't look due to the thread title. Those who would look due to the thread title are overwhelmed at the complexity of the discussion and the attitudes of some responders.

IMHO, the narrative in the first post ought to be left as a sticky and all this other stuff relegated to a judging thread....:eek:

qldviking 01-19-2009 11:06 AM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
I disagree, and as a newcomer to imac and pattern, I will need to learn it all too, the thing that concerns me is the terminology between caller and pilot, which is something new to me. I see arresti as being clear concise shorthand for the caller to work with. I also see a lot of value in learning about judging, the criteria, values and demerits etc can only help a pilot to judge himself accurately as he practises. It will give him a good idea as to how he is flying and an help overcome bad habits etc. Not everyone has an advanced level pilot to help him along getting it together either. Is it complicated? I dont think so, but like any competitive sport, its not something you just go and master in 5 minutes either.

dicksnyder 01-19-2009 12:00 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
First, Thanks for the BASIC narrative. When I first inquired on here all I wanted was the names of maneuvers.
Like #6 LOOP and #5 Teardrop. I still think the narrative will help my guys. When I showed it to them, they were excited. Yes, I can read the aresti and tell them what to do but this they can study and work on. Having taught hundreds of guys over the last 55 years, think I can still help some more. And I don't think carrying around an Aresti book is best way to get these guys doing. Sure, after a while, they will be using it. But right now, they just need some informative help. And anyone who goes out on a 12 degree day like we did last Saturday here in Dallastown, wants to fly and enjoy it. So I would still like to see a list of other class maneuvers, with or without the narrative, Like I said I just want the maneuver names. If anyone can help me out, my E-mail address is [email protected].
Thanks, Dick Snyeer

rcpollo 01-21-2009 08:12 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
I used to make fun of my wife, because she plays Mah Jongg, and every year they change the hands. Now she can laugh at me, because every year IMAC changes the sequences. What's good for the goose.......:D

loser 01-22-2009 12:35 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
Hello DS,
I did just as you described when I flew in a few events last year. I can read the Aresti but wrote down the manuevers by "common name" for my "non-RC girlfriend" to use when calling for me.

I'm hoping to get to a few more meets this year. I think there are 3 or 4 scheduled pretty close to us in May and early June. If the guys you are "getting into it" come with you to the York Club on Thursdays...I'll have to take off a few days and come over...

Steve

dicksnyder 01-27-2009 12:43 PM

RE: 2009 Basic Narrative
 
Steve,
Will do. Hope we can fly together some this year. What is a flimsy I saw one guy refer up above?
Keep those locknuts tight.
Dick Snyder


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