Franco2fly

I went back through this thread, since I recalled we were all having trouble with RPM, and around post 300 or 301 there was discussion of using the Surface optical sensor... SMPA 1452 

Since I have almost Zero confidence on getting the Electronic Brushless sensor to work, (Just too many variables, EMI, Pole#, speed up slow down issues) it occurs to me that using the dots on the can of the Turnigy Outrunner might be a whole lot easier and more accurate.

Pull-Up-Now, you did some testing as I recall putting the dots on a Drill Press chuck.  What do you think of the idea to place the pick ups on the outside of the spinning Outrunner can?  The G-32 has a nice black finish on the outside, and I can see no problem in mounting a bracket for the sensor. (at 6 bucks I already ordered one)  What are your suggestions?  Should I go with 2 dots and set the poles to "2" or go with 4 dots to get more accuracy?  Do you have the STi module and can you test to see if it likes the optical feed?(see above test in #475)

KKKKFL

AndyKunz

You need to set the pole count in the STi to match what you have in the DX8. The STi gets the same raw data as the DX8, but it doesn't get any configuration info except what you enter.

Andy

Franco2fly

oopsss.  I guess I missed that setup option in the STi...  I'll bet fixing that will get me in the ball park when using the Startermotor to spin the Turnigy G-32...  Now if I could just get reliable data from the Sensor.  I'll tinker some more, but I really think the best bet is to abandon the electronic brushless sensor (at least for this motor/ESC) and go with the optical pick up.  Should be fairly simple to mount the sensor next to the can and place a couple of dots on it.  At most I might need a dab of black paint on some of the lettering.

KKKKFL

fizzwater2

My Feedback: (61)

can you just aim the optical sensor at the prop? Wouldn't need to paint any dots that way.

Franco2fly

Will try that when I get the surface sensor, in the meantime, the Dynam spec sheet says that it comes defaulted to soft start for motors with less than 6 poles, and it can be set for Hard start for motors with more than 6 poles. In talking with TechRep Bruce, this might be the offending area. I'll reprogram the ESC to the different setting and see what happens... Keep your fingers crossed.


KKKKFL

Franco2fly

Here's the latest on the RPM electronic brushless saga... 

After talking with the Spektrum rep this morning, it was obvious to me that the ESC needs to have the capability to pulse at various rates.  The 60 amp Dynam (20 bucks) only has Hard or soft settings, the (80 buck) E-flight 60 amp ESC has programmable settings designated for the poles of the motor  2-4, 6-12, 12 poles,  14 or more poles.  I just gave in...  the sensor was designed to work with specified poles,  These need to be set in the DX8, as well as the STi if there's gonna be any hope of a correct read-out.  The default settings on the ESC will NOT work.  You must go into program mode for the ESC and select the correct Pole setting.  I lost some of the wattage using the E-flight, down to 780 watts, where the Dynam was drawing 840 Watts.  Different props might change this.

After replacing the connectors, and making the changes, I held my breath and fired it up.  Results, It starts reading over 4000 RPM, reads accurately at least up to 8880 RPM (verified with optical Tach) where it topped out with the current prop.  Slowly backing down, it will give some false reads, but settle in and track. It does not read below 3000 RPM and that's about as good as its going to do.  Actual RPM readings on an electric plane is of limited usefulness, and I can live with the results.  Not their finest sensor, but it does move the needle correctly some of the time.  I am more pleased with the STi 3 axis output screen and the fact that the DO DISPLAY VARIOMETER readings!!  This might be an interim output until the actual Barometric sensor comes to this country, but for you glider guys, it is there.  I don't know if the reading will emit a rising tone for lift, and decending one for sink. I'll know more this weekend.

Thanks to Andy & Bruce...  keep up the good work.


KKKKFL

Franco2fly

If I could figure out how to post an attachment, I would provide the entire text of E-flights programming sheet. I find the multi column multi page format difficult to follow, and its critical to get the programming correct. So for the Brushless sensor to work the timing must match the motor poles. Here's the extract of that programming :
<meta name="Title"><meta name="Keywords"><meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"><meta content="Word.Document" name="ProgId"><meta content="Microsoft Word 2008" name="Generator"><meta content="Microsoft Word 2008" name="Originator"><link href="file://localhost/Users/francolubinsky/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/msoclip/0clip_filelist.xml" rel="File-List" /><xml> <officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng></o:allowpng> </officedocumentsettings></xml><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves>false</w:trackmoves> <w:trackformatting></w:trackformatting> <wunctuationkerning></wunctuationkerning> <w:drawinggridhorizontalspacing>18 pt</w:drawinggridhorizontalspacing> <w:drawinggridverticalspacing>18 pt</w:drawinggridverticalspacing> <w:displayhorizontaldrawinggridevery>0</w:displayhorizontaldrawinggridevery> <w:displayverticaldrawinggridevery>0</w:displayverticaldrawinggridevery> <w:validateagainstschemas></w:validateagainstschemas> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables></w:breakwrappedtables> <w:dontgrowautofit></w:dontgrowautofit> <w:dontautofitconstrainedtables></w:dontautofitconstrainedtables> <w:dontvertalignintxbx></w:dontvertalignintxbx> </w:compatibility> </w:worddocument></xml><xml> <w:latentstyles latentstylecount="276" deflockedstate="false"> </w:latentstyles></xml><style type="text/css"></style><style type="text/css"> Style Definitions */table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}</style><xml> <o:shapedefaults spidmax="1026" v:ext="edit"></o:shapedefaults></xml><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap data="1" v:ext="edit"></o:idmap> </o:shapelayout></xml>

<o></o>

<o></o>

<o>next menu....
</o>

Programming Menu 4 – Throttle Input Range (PWM) ...etc.

Hope this helps others trying to get the Brushless RPM sensor to work.

KKKKFL<o></o>

</meta></meta></meta></meta></meta></meta>

coniosessa

HA guys, there is a lot of good info here so thanks for that. I tried my STI and iPhone today and it was quite interesting to listen to the altitude go up as my glider got sucked up in a thermal. I am confused about how to get the graph function to work. I have a whole list of log files from one flight each about a second apart. When I try to graph it, I get one point on the graph. Is there something in setup that I have done wrong?

JohnB96041

I am going to assume that you clicked on start log at the beginning of the flight. Once that is done you scrolled to the 6th screen and a date and time log file should show. Tap the log file and you can choose the primary chart (aka Altitude) and a secondary chart (aka Airspeed) then tap graph and it will show the results. Hope this is right.

Franco2fly

Who was it that was experimenting with the Ground RPM sensor? I need help...

I got it in the mail today.... Absolutely no instructions. The package has 2 small screws for mounting the chip there's the bottom of the printed circuit board, two small bumps on the other side and a length of cable with a connector at the end.

There appears to be a decal sheet with 3 silver bars, and 3 black ones, as well as 3 silver dots and 3 black ones.

What I want to do is attach something to the black can of the Turnigy motor... can I just stick the two silver bars on opposing sides of the motor?
What orientation must the two nubs on the card be mounted at? Mounted one way both sensors would see the strip at the same time, turned 90 degrees, one will see the edge first.

I think the original test had stripes on a drill chuck.

What about the connector? I'm sure it needs to be changed. What color goes where?
Thanks

KKKKFl

coniosessa

Well that would be a bad assumption. Actually I had it on autostart, which thinking about it now may not make sense. I'll try the manual start in a day or so.

Thanks

Franco2fly

Ok so I went back and it was in Pull-up-now's work shop. (around post #300)

  There's a couple video's  one has a disk that's all white except for a black stripe, My only question is which way are the nubs positioned.  Do both pick ups see the leading edge of the stripe at the same time ie. side by side, or do they see the stripe serially?

I plan on sacrificing a Voltage pickup lead to get the connector, and hopefully I can figure out what color goes where.  Then I'm gonna put  yellowish masking tape around the can of the G-32 Turnigy motor, and just place a black strip made with a permanent marker for starters.  If the readings need more accuracy, I'll go to opposing stripes, and 2 poles or 4 poles,  My range is under 10,000 RPM,  but I'm really shooting for accurate readings from a low of 1400 to mid of 5000 and high of 9000.



KKKKFL

Pull Up Now!

My Feedback: (3)

Hi Franco,

I usually have to stop and think/guess to what you're referring. No exception here. What are "nubs"???? Are they the little twin IR (infra red) sensor/emitters on the ground sensor's circuit board? Black in color? If so, it doesn't matter which way you orient them. The edge of a stripe passes by the two so fast it's beyond the response time of the sensor to care about orientation. I'm not totally sure of this, but I think one is an light emitter, and the other is the collector (or sensor). I'm betting the light is very non-directional and spreads out, making orientation irrelevant.

If you check your private email, you'll see I already sent you, on Jan 15th, a picture of how to wire the ground connector for air use. Guess you didn't read it.

You can use the motor can to rotate the stripe, or mark, for RPM. But you need to have a plain background all the way around. In other words, nothing can be seen by the sensors to mistake for the timing mark.

Don't sacrifice one of the sensors if you can help it. You can get the connectors for Spektrum at http://www.rc-connectors.com/index.p...roducts_id=258

Franco2fly

I don't recall the PM, but I might have missed it...  you've got it WRT the nubs..  The little black bulges are side by side and to my tired eyes look identical.  I think I have 3 of those flight pack voltage wires, just not sure they have all three wires soldered to the connector itself.  I know there's a red and black wire.  I've also seen extensions that are 5 bucks, might be better to use one of them then trying to solder the micro connector.

The can of the Turnigy motor is black, so one technique would be to place the yellowish masking tape around leaving a 1/4 inch space.  The problem I see with that is it would be a single pole and I don't think that's an option for the STi or the Dx8 in the # Poles window.

This ought to be easy to set up, and has to work better than the Electronic sensor, which goes bonkers when you back down throttle.  Eventually, it settles in and gives an accurate reading, but I've never gotten a reading below 3700 RPM and I recall your first Drill Press test showing something like 670 RPM, next you did the High Speed drill, I just don't recall how well it tracked as you backed off the throttle.

I'll post a pic of my set up once I get it working.


KKKKFL

Pull Up Now!

My Feedback: (3)

Unless you delete your PM's, you should still have it. I don't delete mine. Because that's extra work.

Speaking of "nubs", what is "WRT"??

No need to wrap yellow tape all around the motor. Just put an 1/8" strip of tape on one place. That will work. It doesn't matter if what the sensor sees is light/dark, or dark/light.

If I recall, just set the DX8 and the STI for two poles. Because the leading edge of the line is one pole, and the trailing edge of the line is the second. The logic doesn't trigger on just a signal rise, or just a signal fall. It counts both. If you want, you can go 50/50 if it makes you feel better. But it won't matter, it's still 2 poles. To the sensor, it's kinda like "duhduhduhduhduhduhduhduh" or da-duh-da-duh-da-duh-da-duh". Either way, there are 8 duhs.

Franco2fly

wrt is "with regards to" common military parlence.. I just re-checked my PM's I have a bunch but not from you?
So with nubs down... or sensors toward the desk... I have red in the center brown on the bottom and pink on the top
the "Y" I want to use has a micro male with the edge ticks facing down its pink then black then red
going from top edge coming towards my belly...

Just for your appreciation... I'm guessing the pink goes to pink red goes to red and brown goes to black

Is that pretty much the arrangement?

KKKKFL

Pull Up Now!

My Feedback: (3)

Here's a link to the connection diagram to get a ground sensor working with the air module:

[link=http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=1518&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcuniverse.com%2Fforum%2Fpm.a sp%3Fm%3D1709244%26FolderID%3D1&v=1&libid=1331668201688&out=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.rcuniverse.com%2Fforum%2Fu pfiles%2F436333%2FSq47214.jpg&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcuniverse.com%2Fforum%2Fpm.a sp%3FFolderID%3D1%26groupName%3DSent&title=RC%20Forums%20-%20RC%20Universe%20discussion%20forums%20for%20RC% 20cars%2C%20rc%20trucks%2C%20rc%20airplanes%2C%20r c%20helis%2C%20rc%20boats%2C%20rc%20jets%2C%20rc%2 0electric%20helis%2C%20rc%20electric%20planes%20an d%20more&txt=rpm_rewiri..l_sensor.jpg&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13316682466343]Ground sensor hookup for air[/link]

Franco2fly

Its never easy.... My micro connector is colored differently  its red black (center) and pink on the other end

Optical is definitly red center orange top brown bottom
KKKKFL

Franco2fly

Here's a shot I've laid out a diagram to the left.


KKKKFL

Franco2fly

Has anyone else noticed that the STi module can be a bit flakey linking up with your model.  I had to do a total re-bind last nite to get it to fire up.  Thank goodness for Andy's tip about a "Y" cable on the Data/Battery port.  I won't install another radio without the "Y" cable.

KKKKFL

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I just installed my Brushless Motor RPM Sensor in my Eflite Extra 300. I am using an Eflite 46 motor. I stripped the ends of the wires going to the two Motor Leads, slipped them into the sockets for the Bullet Connectors, and plugged in the Bullet Connectors. I have a 14 pole motor and set the DX8 RPM Telemetry sensor parameters to 14 Poles. The Low Warning is set to Zero and the High Warning is set to 10000 rpm. Everything works perfectly. I am turning up about 9300 rpm at full throttle.

Ian Prentice

Hi has anyone had issues binding to a spektrum ar9100 ? I can get it to bind on others cheers

JohnB96041

When you have a problem binding the Spektrum system, try moving the transmitter either a little closer to the receiver or a little farther away. I have noticed my DX8 will have trouble binding if I have the trans more than 4-5 feet from the receiver.

Franco2fly

BuschBarber,
What is the minimum RPM reading that you can see on the DX8? 
My brushless sensor doesn't seem to trigger or send ACURATE data below 3700 rpm.  It doesn't even start to read until the speed is over 4000RPM, and then I can gently and slowly back the throttle down, but once it gets to 3650, readings jump to 25450.

I have tried every pole count from 2 to 14 and between 10 and 14 it will read, but never anything less than 3700.  Also, what ESC are you using and have you programmed the ESC timing?  I am currently using the E-flight 60 amp ESC. I tried at the 5th setting, and now I'm running at the 4th, since the motor made some funny whining sounds at mid throttle when in the highest timing mode.

Thanks

KKKKFL

Ian Prentice

My trouble is that I can't get both the Rec and telemetry to flash only the rec will flash