pepatrick

I have repeatedly flown my spektrum plane in the area where you guys were looking the other day. I put my Spektrum log monitor on it and not a single hit, glitch or anything else that indicates a problem. It may very well be your radio...If you have lost 3 planes...in the same area I would send your radio in and have it checked out...I have flown on my DX-7 and my 10x that has been spektrumized...It is very solid...all the way around the GMA field.

kthmarks

It could be that both of our transmitters have issues and sending them in would certainly remove them from the equation. At this point I don't know what else to do. I would also like to check into the Spektrum log monitor. That was kind of my intent in starting this thread and asking Danny if there was a devise that could be used to trace or log an event. I Googled "Spektrum log monitor" and didn't have much success....can you elaborate?

dsnyder

There is a flight log device from Spektrum that can be used with the AR9000 receiver and the JR R921 receiver when it is released. I'd recommend sending your system in for a check up.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

I have two thoughts on this, and I'd bet on it being one of the two. First, it can take a while for newbies to have a feel for wind shears, thermals, and wind events. It takes time to be able to "feel" what's going on. Wind shear can be extremely treacherous, and it sounds like you've got varying geography there at that field. If the area around is typically not covered in trees and you flew over a patch, you could have just found an area that wasn't giving thermals. It's HOT in Georgia and thermals are easy to find. Take them away and it's almost like a wind shear, a model can drop off on a wing easily. Well, you get my point there, wind events are varied and take time to learn. There's a lake in Texas that I fly at that has a killer wind shear when you cross low from the water onto the land or vice versa. The tip-off here to me is the other fella here that has no problems there with the same setup.
Guess # 2, Did you both make sure that you did your second "Binding" with your safety/recovery settings all set up? This is a feature that's provided for extra model safety and it ensures that your model and radio are tight with each other all the way. Doing the second binding is important.

This is interesting, I'll be watching to see what turns up here.

Jim

pepatrick

I was not there when it happened...but from what I understand the plane was a H-9 PTS Mustang trainer. The tree line from where you guys were looking for the plane was well over a 1.4 mile out from the flight line...A plane that size is going to be difficult to fly and control that far out...Orientation of the almost all silver plane on top of a fairly overcast day could have some impact as well. I have been told you guys fly pretty well...but still...that is a long way out for a plane with a 55" wingspan...just adding another possible thought to this mystery.

kthmarks

Thanks for the perspective guys. I appreciate it.
Yes the first plane was a PTS mustang, the other a Rascal 40 and the third an electric E-Flite Mini Ultra stick.
Google Earth shows the distance at .2 of a mile so range should not be an issue and I feel comfortable flying the tree line as far as visibility. However, now that I know how difficult it can be to find a plane in that jungle....I'll keep closer to the infield.

I am learning that there may be an issue with Spektrum servos locking out. Both the Rascal and PTS have the original Spektrum servos and both planes rolled in a way that would indicate that could be a likely scenario. The stick however has E-Flite micros. No answer for that.

Mariner,
I grew up in Texas (North Dallas). Great place. I also got my private pilots license there when I was in my twenties. I remember many times after cross country flight training during the hot Texas summers bouncing up and down in that little 152 almost to the point of blowing chunks....LOL. What we recently experienced with our planes was neither wind sheer nor turbulence. These were straight and level....then boom, hard aileron to one side, do your best to save with no response until it hits the ground.

As for the second binding, I have not done that. It still would not account for losing multiple planes in the same area. I don't know ....could this be the smoking gun?

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Yes, not doing the second binding COULD EASILY account for losing the planes in the same place. The second binding establishes your safety settings, the auto-default position that your RX sends to your plane if there's a hit that manages to get through. The second binding is where you have set your surfaces trimmed to a neutral, should-keep-the-plane-flying-for-a-few-seconds-with-low-throttle position. If you didn't set that up, you could be defaulting to a hard-over-to-the-right setting. This would mean that, yes, there apparently IS a hit taking place, but the safeties provided by the Spektrum to save your plane in that event were never implemented by you. Hard lesson. (head shaking) This hobby can be FULL of them. (I draw this as a parallel to the old "I probably should have extended my antenna" maneuver.) The new technologies can have a real, tangible learning curve.

Jim

kthmarks

I know about the fail safe feature and made sure those throws were correct prior to the initial binding. I assumed that when I turn off the receiver (which would simulate loss of signal) and the surfaces go to neutral and the throttle to idle I was in good shape. No?

pepatrick

I guess the next question is...which spektrum receiver did you use? And..which spektrum servos in the PTS....If you are the using the DS821s on the mustang or rascal..and you were using a 4.8 volt battery...that could explain the lockout...If you were using a 4.8 volt nicad..it could have easily dropped below 3.5 volts and caused the receiver to reboot...which ofcourse results in a crash...Digital servos put more load on the batteries...and a little 1000mah battery (presumably whats in the PTS)might only be good for a couple of flights before it needs a recharge...all bets are off with nimh batteries...I would not trust them on digital servos...I good choice might be to use a 6volt battery with a regulator on it providing constant 5.5 to 6 volts to the receiver...just a thought..

kthmarks

Both planes (PTS & Rascal) were using the Spektrum servos with the AR7000 RX. As for the Servos, yes they are the DS821's. The battery pack on both planes is a 5 cell, 6V nimh @ 2000 mah. When the rascal went in the batteries registered at 6.3V with the Expert V300 checker. I do not know how many volts the PTS read. It was the first flight of the day. I did not check the batteries but I am sure my father did. He's good about that.

The stick was using LiPo's with a AR7000 RX. Not sure of the voltage of the Lipo's.

I don't think we have any nicad's.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Wow, battery sounds more than adequate from that respect. And I'd guess that shutting off the TX would be the best way to simulate loss of signal, so it sounds like the Bind was okay as far as the safety settings.

Barring pilot error, I'm out of guesses!

Jim

dsnyder

There are no trends of issues with the servos. If you suspect a problem with the system, send it in to the service center for a check up.

pepatrick

battery was ok..and the DS821s are definately good servos. I think I would send the transmitter in to check it out. Its the only thing I can think of that makes sense. Good luck with it...and I hope to meet you up at the field soon.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Afraid I'm a third vote on the side of sending it in. Not like my vote actually counts, but, hey, what the heck. I sure can't come up with any other ideas. There's always that last little thing that electronics do occasionally fail, or in this case, glitch.

We're getting ready to open a factory, and I've learned all kinds of almost-useless information that can hardly be used anywhere else, but one tidbit does apply here. In industry, 3 to 8 percent is the average accepted off-the-line failure rate, and the 3 is considered acceptable, as you move toward the 8 it is less so. 8 means you're getting sloppy. Anything beyond that and....well, you get the idea. Still, 3% of Ten thousand radios is 300 radios with some form of problem. (If only just Ten thousand were sold.) Even if you identified half of those in quality control, that remaining 1.5% that would still mean 150 radios somewhere in America (okay, round the world) that have issues. If you bought those two together you might have a component batch problem. Still, it's easily fixed by JR, at any rate. Another little tidbit; Some industries are as high as 23 % these days. Most electronics industries, however, are on the EXTREME low end.

The most unfortunate thing is that we use these in a hobby where we fly extremely fragile and expensive planes. Even at the very best rate, some planes are going to bite the dirt. I knew those numbers when I bought my DX-7, and still think it's the way to go. BUT....the more you think about it, the better ARFs sound all the time! I like it when I don't have heart and soul invested in a plane.

Jim

hardrock

Since this is a manufacturer's forum - I'd like to hear the Spektrum tech. weigh-in on the importance of the second binding. I have an earlier version of the R7000 and there doesn't seem to be any difference in binding a second time. In fact, I cannot get it to fail-safe to anything other than the neutral position. How about it Mr. Snyder?

hardrock

Me again...

One other question I have about receiver (i.e. antenna) placement. In the manual it says that the receivers should be placed perpendicular to each other. How important is it to place them in different "planes" (in the spacial sense - same airplane) in perpendicular or in the same spacial "plane". The picture in the manual shows the antennas perpendicular and in slightly different heights or "planes" is there any problem/signal loss having them in the same "plane". I only ask because I do like flying my 3D profile planes and the area for mounting the receiver is usually small inside the wing between the root and 2nd ribs. If the receivers can be installed in an "L" configuration (in the same spacial plane) without compromising reception - it would make things easier. Also, what are the worst case scenerios for receivers and signal probagation and reception? I recently lost a shock flyer (r6100) that seemed to lose response before crashing. It was in a paved area with a large curb and brick buildings close by. I have also seen spektrum systems that have had the led "flash" momentarily while flying (I have noticed this while watching other foamy airplanes flying). Again I would only like to hear an "official" spektrum response.

Thanks

Flypaper 2

Spektrum doesn't lock into a neutral failsafe position. They stay in whatever position they are at loss of signal. Only throttle goes to low if it's in low position at binding.

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Flypaper2, you need to check your manual and if you can't get yours to work then you need to talk to Danny here, and/or maybe send yours in. Mine goes into the exact surface AND throttle position I set it to during my second Binding, just as the manual describes.

Jim

Panzlflyer

My Feedback: (15)

The AR7000 is Last position hold and throttle to whatever you set it...AR9000 has 2 types of failsafe, have they updated the 7000??

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

Which one comes with the DX7 in the box? It has two sections. Not very specific, I know, but I'm not opening the plane up just to look at that. Also, Danny should be chiming in here, I'm sure he can clear some things up.

Jim

dsnyder

The only purpose to bind after the system has already been bound is to re-set the fail safe positions or if you want to move to a different model memory in a system with model match like the DX7. You must move the stick/switches to the position desired and leave them in that postion through the whole bind process.

kthmarks

So say I have already bound my two planes, each with a unique name. I go to the field with both. Do I need to rebind each plane each time I switch from one plane to another before flight?

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

No, naming the planes and binding them makes each plane unique to the TX. It only recognizes that plane, and only when that plane's name (that model) is selected on the TX.

Jim

caltrop

I lost a plane to the DX7 recently. Here are my posts & another forum.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_59...tm.htm#5937756
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_57...tm.htm#5919923
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...re#post7072197

FYI: I was using a separate battery pack with my AR7000 Rx & the mini Ultra Stick when it went straight into the ground. I have also had glitches with a foamie I have using an AR6000 Rx but attributed it to an overheated speed controller. I sent the DX7 to Horizon and they claim nothing wrong with it but I have noticed some changes to the transmitter. I will never trust it with anything but a foamie again; I have purchased a Futaba for my bigger planes (not as nice programming but it is reliable).

Liz

jeffk464

I lost a predator 2 to a futaba 2.4ghz system, all of a sudden the ailerons would not respond. I have been in this hobby for around 18 years and know when I stall one of my planes.

Someone mentioned a possible scenario that sounds reasonable. On our old 72mhz systems the receiver wasnt that sensitive to low battery voltage everything would just operate sluggishly, but with the newer all digital systems at a certain voltage, whatever that might be, the processor in the receiver just completely stops working. That might not be the actual cause of our problems, but it sounds very logical.

I think for the time being I'm going to stay with my old 72mhz system in my expensive or prized(by me) planes.