K170f start issue.
02-08-2012, 12:42 PM
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K170f start issue.
Hi Barry,
I have a K170F which is playing up during the initial start sequence. I can see the rpm fluctuating up to ~25,000rpm during the normal 4,000rpm ignition phase, of course this causes the ECU to think the engine is turning faster than it actually is and the start fails. I suspect it may be the starter wires under the front cover causing some interference to the rpm sensor....is there anything I can do to help resolve the issue??
Cheers,
Smithy.
I have a K170F which is playing up during the initial start sequence. I can see the rpm fluctuating up to ~25,000rpm during the normal 4,000rpm ignition phase, of course this causes the ECU to think the engine is turning faster than it actually is and the start fails. I suspect it may be the starter wires under the front cover causing some interference to the rpm sensor....is there anything I can do to help resolve the issue??
Cheers,
Smithy.
02-09-2012, 06:07 AM
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RE: K170f start issue.
Twist the starter wires, and move the RPM sensor wires. You may want to use a round choke, and wrap the RPM wire a couple times before the plug at the ECU.
Just some random thoughts.
Just some random thoughts.
02-09-2012, 07:57 AM
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RE: K170f start issue.
Smithy
I second that suggestion. When I received my 170 the leads were not twisted and I twisted them before attempting the first start. Net result was no failed starts. I noticed that the wiring they have used is a bit stiff and not silicone multi strand wire. After a while this may give problems.
John
I second that suggestion. When I received my 170 the leads were not twisted and I twisted them before attempting the first start. Net result was no failed starts. I noticed that the wiring they have used is a bit stiff and not silicone multi strand wire. After a while this may give problems.
John
02-09-2012, 10:51 AM
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RE: K170f start issue.
Hi Tony and John,
Thanks muchly for your answers, I've already done the "wire twist" on all the external wires, the K170F has the rpm and EGT sensor wires exiting from the front cover using one of those plug-in phone cable setups, nice and simple.... and easy to use.
What I did was pop the front cover off and re-route the two starter wires as far away from the rpm sensor on the little pcb as possible, seems to have done the trick, no more rpm spikes as yet.
Can you guys give me the standard start parameters for a K170F kero start please? I'm using a 2s 5500mah 35c li-po so I have plenty of battery grunt.
Thanks in advance,
Smithy.
Thanks muchly for your answers, I've already done the "wire twist" on all the external wires, the K170F has the rpm and EGT sensor wires exiting from the front cover using one of those plug-in phone cable setups, nice and simple.... and easy to use.
What I did was pop the front cover off and re-route the two starter wires as far away from the rpm sensor on the little pcb as possible, seems to have done the trick, no more rpm spikes as yet.
Can you guys give me the standard start parameters for a K170F kero start please? I'm using a 2s 5500mah 35c li-po so I have plenty of battery grunt.
Thanks in advance,
Smithy.
02-09-2012, 12:15 PM
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RE: K170f start issue.
Smithy
Glad you have sorted things out.
I have found when starting a number of the Kingtech Kero starts that the standard settings will start the engine no problem but they tend to pool fuel in the engine and cause a burst of flame as the engine is accelerated to idle. It can also cause a dribble of fuel out of the tailpipe. If like me you have an internal ducted system this needs to be corrected. The setting
pump power Ignition K can be dialled down to 20 or even 18
Preheat fuel can be turned down to 55 or 60
If you overdo it then the start sequence will take longer. I left the other settings untouched.
If it is very cold it can be a problem to register the heat rise during ignition. In the UK very cold weather might need lower starter rpm so as not to cool the engine too much (not likely to be your problem).
I have found that I get better more consistent starts with a 3 cell A123 battery than with a high power 2 cell Lipo.
John
Glad you have sorted things out.
I have found when starting a number of the Kingtech Kero starts that the standard settings will start the engine no problem but they tend to pool fuel in the engine and cause a burst of flame as the engine is accelerated to idle. It can also cause a dribble of fuel out of the tailpipe. If like me you have an internal ducted system this needs to be corrected. The setting
pump power Ignition K can be dialled down to 20 or even 18
Preheat fuel can be turned down to 55 or 60
If you overdo it then the start sequence will take longer. I left the other settings untouched.
If it is very cold it can be a problem to register the heat rise during ignition. In the UK very cold weather might need lower starter rpm so as not to cool the engine too much (not likely to be your problem).
I have found that I get better more consistent starts with a 3 cell A123 battery than with a high power 2 cell Lipo.
John
02-09-2012, 03:03 PM
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RE: K170f start issue.
Thanks John,
You've been a great help. I'll get an "A123" 3s onto it and see how she goes. Although a freshly charged 2s lipo wasn't causing any dramas that I'm aware of..!
Cheers,
Smithy.
You've been a great help. I'll get an "A123" 3s onto it and see how she goes. Although a freshly charged 2s lipo wasn't causing any dramas that I'm aware of..!
Cheers,
Smithy.
02-10-2012, 10:07 PM
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RE: K170f start issue.
Hi Guys,
Please also consider leaning out the min. flow % down to 30%, this will mild down during the switch over. John, I am with you on the preheat, but maybe even leaner.
Thanks,
Barry
ORIGINAL: Jgwright
Smithy
Glad you have sorted things out.
I have found when starting a number of the Kingtech Kero starts that the standard settings will start the engine no problem but they tend to pool fuel in the engine and cause a burst of flame as the engine is accelerated to idle. It can also cause a dribble of fuel out of the tailpipe. If like me you have an internal ducted system this needs to be corrected. The setting
pump power Ignition K can be dialled down to 20 or even 18
Preheat fuel can be turned down to 55 or 60
If you overdo it then the start sequence will take longer. I left the other settings untouched.
If it is very cold it can be a problem to register the heat rise during ignition. In the UK very cold weather might need lower starter rpm so as not to cool the engine too much (not likely to be your problem).
I have found that I get better more consistent starts with a 3 cell A123 battery than with a high power 2 cell Lipo.
John
Smithy
Glad you have sorted things out.
I have found when starting a number of the Kingtech Kero starts that the standard settings will start the engine no problem but they tend to pool fuel in the engine and cause a burst of flame as the engine is accelerated to idle. It can also cause a dribble of fuel out of the tailpipe. If like me you have an internal ducted system this needs to be corrected. The setting
pump power Ignition K can be dialled down to 20 or even 18
Preheat fuel can be turned down to 55 or 60
If you overdo it then the start sequence will take longer. I left the other settings untouched.
If it is very cold it can be a problem to register the heat rise during ignition. In the UK very cold weather might need lower starter rpm so as not to cool the engine too much (not likely to be your problem).
I have found that I get better more consistent starts with a 3 cell A123 battery than with a high power 2 cell Lipo.
John
02-12-2012, 11:23 AM
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RE: K170f start issue.
Hi Barry,
Thanks for your reply. I've got a fair amount of unburnt fuel pouring out the exhaust during "pre-heat" and "switch-over" and she won't ramp up, obviously too much fuel during this period. The initial ignition lights off fine, however the temps don't rise quickly enough and increasing the pump at ignition doesn't seem to alter the temps significantly, lowering the rpm @ ignition helps slightly but the temps still fall well short. I might lower everything and come at them slowly until I get a satisfactory start. I'll take your advice and also lower the "min flow" to 30% and give that a try.
If possible could you give me the full set of factory parameters for the K170F kero start?, I suspect during my fiddling I may have got a little off track and need to get back to the correct specs.
Cheers and thanks for your help,
Smithy.
Thanks for your reply. I've got a fair amount of unburnt fuel pouring out the exhaust during "pre-heat" and "switch-over" and she won't ramp up, obviously too much fuel during this period. The initial ignition lights off fine, however the temps don't rise quickly enough and increasing the pump at ignition doesn't seem to alter the temps significantly, lowering the rpm @ ignition helps slightly but the temps still fall well short. I might lower everything and come at them slowly until I get a satisfactory start. I'll take your advice and also lower the "min flow" to 30% and give that a try.
If possible could you give me the full set of factory parameters for the K170F kero start?, I suspect during my fiddling I may have got a little off track and need to get back to the correct specs.
Cheers and thanks for your help,
Smithy.
02-21-2012, 10:58 AM
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RE: K170f start issue.
Hi All,
I just wish to show my appreciation for Barry, he went out of his way to help get the 170 up and running. He was able to help me with advice and suggestions via PM and the next start was a success. We need more people who are willing to help like Barry within our hobby. Nuff said.
Thank you Barry.
All the best,
Smithy.
I just wish to show my appreciation for Barry, he went out of his way to help get the 170 up and running. He was able to help me with advice and suggestions via PM and the next start was a success. We need more people who are willing to help like Barry within our hobby. Nuff said.
Thank you Barry.
All the best,
Smithy.
