With my previous Bipes (Herr Pitts, Royal Pitts, Sig Skybolt) all had ailerons on one wing only. I was told that Ailerons on both upper and lower wings was more enjoyable. The Dreamer shows them on the lower wing but it seems to be quite easy to alter the upper wing to add them. The kit cautions against any changes. Any experience with this kit or recommendations?

Mike,

a buddy built a Dreamer exactly as designed and it flew fine. However, he did feel the ailerons lacked authority to do the do the roll rate he was used to ( really fast). I built one about three months ago and installed a Tower mini servo in each lower wing to drive the ailerons. Rolls are pretty much a blur. The double servos retained the simplicity of the original design and (I think) makes it roll about as fast as most folks would want. In general the little plane is a great flyer and a real blast to fly.

I was already planning to install high torque (34 in oz) micro servos in each wing. But I thought of tieing the upper and lower aileron together.
I'm installing a Webra speed .50 with a tuned pipe down the side. Is that too much go power for a 38" bipe?

MikeSell:

If all you want to obtain is Near Earth Orbit, the Webra 50 should do fine. If, however, you want to attain a geostationary orbit you might need an engine with some power.

Haw.

Bill.

Hey,
if you got the ponies, use 'um. Stuck an MVVS .46 with their mini tuned pipe on mine. Forgot to mention that I increased the aileron width by about 1/8". Not a big deal, but something I forgot to say.

When the plans showed lots of stick built area I assumed the plane would end up light weight. I didn't like the 1/8x1/4 balsa spars and I had some 1/4x1/4 spruce so I replaced one in each wing. The tuned pipe fits better with the engine vertical and running tight to the side of the fuse. The weight may also increase as I plan to cover it with supercoverite. Cloth looks so much better. The structure is VERY stiff but is now getting to feel heavy.
I guess I'm used to my 22oz 1/2a models that are visually much larger than this plane.

I know I'm speaking to the choir but, overweight bipes are dead bipes if you have a dead stick. I would think a 50 and cloth would put your wing loading in the high 30's and give you a 6lb rock.

Just a thought.
John

I am noted for building light weight models. Most of mine are exceptionally strong too. All my planes have come out below the kit listed weights. The plane I own with highest wing loading is a lightened sturdy birdie with a 62" wing. I am possibly over sensitive to wing loading.
There are others that are even more attuned to light weight such as the indoor electric crew.
I will have to weigh the dreamer not just pick it up and guess.

Mike,
When it is finished will you please post the weight or PM me. This kit is on my short must build list.
Thanks,
John

Sure will, when I weigh it. I started rounding off some of the surfaces last night. The sanding is going to remove measurable weight. I may seal and paint the nose of the fuse to resemble the aluminum cowls on many planes and only cover the wings and back of the fuse. Bent up my own tail wheel strut and will construct my own lightweight wheel.
The instructions say .40-.45 engine but seem to inffer that a .45 would be better. The Webra is lighter than many .45 engines and some .40s yet at the top of the power heap in that size class. 6.0 lbs would wing load at 23 oz/sq ft while 4.5 lbs nets a 17oz load.

Mike,
Tower says the wing area is 456 sq/inch. I'm taking this to be the total area, did you double it?

I get 6lbs = 96oz.
456 sq in wing. 456/144=3.1666
96/3.166 = 30.32 oz/sq ft.

I'm planning on using an O.S. 32 FX and monokote. I'm afraid the fabric will weigh too much. I'm planning on using fabric on my Dynaflight Flybaby.

Engine weight Webra 50 = 320 g or 11.3 oz
O.S. 32 SX = 270 g or 9.5 oz only 1.8 oz difference. Hmmm??

Have fun,
John

JNorton,
Not to worry. MikeSell is very good at lightweight, strong construction...His wings tend to be weightless surfboards . I know because I've seen and felt 'em, and own one or two of 'em myself...

Hi SST,
Wasn't worrying about him, was worrying about me. I'm not known for my light weight construction. Just trying to figure out how we got different wing loading.

I didn't realize till I got on Webra's site just how light their motors are. Does anyone know if that figure is with the muffler?

John

For what it's worth,

my GeeBee came in at 4.75 lbs. Covered with MonoKote. Replaced the aluminum gear with a single wire type landing gear. Otherwise fairly stock.

Mike and ddubya,
Thanks for answering my questions. Didn't mean to highjack the post. Just trying to get some sense of what a realistic weight and wing loading would be.
John

I figured wing area from measuring the wing. The trailing edge of the upper wing may have some extra area from plan but I'm not going to sand it all away or thin it to a knife edge. As another post said I will extend the ailerons slightly on the lower wing for more authority. Looks like I will use (2) 44oz/in mini servos in wing because thats what I have left in inventory.
I am using an tubular aluminum header and macs tuned pipe on mine, not a cast muffler. The fuse is so narrow and it fits there so well and It would just set on my shelf......so who cares what it weighs.
I have several ball bearing .40s that weigh in at 9.6 oz. The instructions recommend .45. The webra .50 is smaller and lighter than my KB screamin .48s and with the tuned pipe at least comparable power. I normally build floaters, this time I want vertical.
I have eight or more planes completed this year waiting for covering. Some fun flys, some profile war birds, a scale sukhoi, and a couple of powered gliders. This bipe is just something different.

Mike,
Well if there is one thing this thing is going to be it is not a rock! More like a ballistic missle! I got an idea of just how light the Webra is by going to their web site. Only 1.8 ounces heavier than an O.S. 32 SX.

Would love to see it fly. You've got me re-thinking what I want to do with mine. The Webra's looking better all the time.
See ya,
John

For what it is worth. Flying Models did a very comprehensive review on this kit several years ago. Kit construction differs greatly from the published plans.

I built the wings for one about 6 years ago. Someday I'll build the fuse. I'm thinking mid sized four stroke. I hear the Saito 52 is a real horse, light too.

The wing span of both wings is 38.5" and the chord according to plan is 8". The lower wing loses 2.5"x 8" where it mounts to the fuse. Without increasing the chord or enlarging the ailerons that looks to be just a little shy of 600 sq in. (Tower often has erroneous information published in their catalogue. I don't complain because no other source gives us as complete a picture of our hobby)
I can't get it on a scale yet because it is at work. I can't progress too quickly on it as the business doesn't run itself.

Mike,
Just a note on wing area. Tower catalog says the figure I used i.e. 456 sq in. Their tech notes on the web site says 600 sq in!

By training and inclination I am an Engineer, my field is electrical. The electrical and mechanical engineers usually rag on each other quite a bit when collaborating on projects.

Usually in my field you can trust the printed data!! Grin - The salesman assured me in would work!

Thanks for posting your progress. I'm getting rather interested in this little bipe!

John

Just a few more sessions and the plane will be all test fitted and ready to cover. Just working out the servo mounts in the lower wing and the interplaner strut sockets.
In one post someone suggested that in a hard turn, if the interplaner were left off, the wings might touch each other . After completing the wings they are sooo stiff, no twist , no flex, I think you would have to deform the wire cabanes to get them even a 1/2 inch closer to each other.
I removed the engine and mount for some internal cowl work and found the entire balsa suprisingly light. I think I'll take my digital camera and digital scale to work. Maybe SST will show me how to post pictures.
By the way I am a diemaker and we don't trust anyone elses numbers. Experience taught us well.
This kit is inexpensive if it wasn't for the time involved I think a lot more people would build it.

Hope SST will show you how to post. Really looking forward to seeing it.

Took some pictures of the one in progress. Ailerons are cut and fitted but not attached.

Didn't have the scale with me, will have to get that done tonite.

Still some work to do...