Jim Clausen

I recently ordered a .60 size Tiporare (Dick Hanson design) from Eureka Aircraft in Arkansas'
, USA. (479) 239-4427. I am very impressed with the wood and workmanship of the kit. I plan to power with an existing OS .61 SF long stroke using a Macs Pipe and Header. I have decided to utalize Carbon Carbon fiber spars in the wings. I have a sheet of it which is .100 inches thick and have already cut them out .500 inches wide and 13 inches long.

I have ordered all of the special balsa wood from The Balsa Store (901) 246-3933. He seems to have the lite planking that I am after in stock. He should have my order ready by this comming Friday.

At this point in the build the wing is cut out for the landing gear mounting blocks and wheel wells are partially cut out. I am waiting for the arrival of retracts before continuing. The carbon carbon spars are installed into the wing but not secured in place. I will do that when the retracts are pre fit into the blocks and ready to epoxy into place.

The carbon carbon spars were weighed before installing and have a weight of 9 grams each. I used the spars as a tool to create a slot for their installation. That stuff cuts that foam about like a saw and it becomes a very close fit which will not require very much epoxy.
All components will be weighed and recorded throughout the build.

The plans call for a tuck in the side of the fuselage and will not be cut in. This was designed in by Dick Hanson to create stiffness in the fiberglass fuselage and since this is going to be a balsa fuselage it won't be necessary.

The camera battery is being charged and I will start taking pictures when it is ready.

Jim Clausen AMA 55111

Lnewqban

Read about the name of the model:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=1498938

JRgraham

My Feedback: (1)

Jim,

If thats the plane Im thinking of from the 90's, what a great plane.
Ihad one for a short time (os 61 w/tuned pipe), unfortunatly a last minute radio swap on way to a pattern contest, we stopped for a test flight and as much as Ireally hate to say, the ailerons were reversed... Im sure most of you all out there can picture exactly how that 5 second flight went

Cant wait to see some images. What a great classic pattern plane. And you really didnt see that many of them. Iwould say though, the plane can be quite fast with that kind of setup, so be prepared to run a steep pitch prop (maybe 12-11, 12-12 range even) to keep it in the box.

airbusdrvr

You might find more interest in a classic pattern plane over in the RCU classic pattern forum, http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_379/tt.htm . But then again, that plane will have interested persons in either forum.

Jim Clausen

I have takes some pictures and progressed some but not too much. I have roughed in the retract mounts and carbon carbon spars as previously talked about. I just uploaded a picture of that.
I have the three balsa fuselage parts glued together and the ply doubler installed with polyester resin. The firewall is epoxied in place and the next two bulkheads are in place. I am on hold pending the balsa that I have ordered.
Retracts are ordered and once received I will continue with the wing and horizontal sheeting. I do not want to secure the spars or the retract mounts in place until I have landing gear blind nuts in place. Once those are installed I will secure everything in place.
I am debating with myself as to whether to use one or two servos for the aielerons. Probably two. Just have to come up with a way to tunnel for the servo wires.
Pictures attached, I hope.
Jim

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Much agreed on the Classic Pattern forum!

doxilia

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Jim,

was going to suggest the same as others but it looks like you've started so may the force be with you!

The trickiest part of the Tipo fuse build is the nose. The shaping and contouring takes a little work as do the tuck lines (in order to get them symmetric).

The vertical also requires a little care so that it ends up symmetric about the fuse. Make sure that tail post is absolutely vertical and plumb to the fuse - it's the reference. I scratch built a 40" span version (The scaling project led Eureka to do the various Tipo's) and found the fuse a bit of a challenge in that size. Things should go a little smoother in the full 60 size.

Attached are a coupla' snaps for inspiration!

David.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Jim,

its possible that Dick designed the tuck line for the glass fuse but it also creates a nice line separating the fuse from the canopy area. I also helps to produce the junction between the canopy front and the fuse nose front area. It isn't that much extra work once you are there and I think you might be pleased with the results. Something to re-consider?

David.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Shimano,

Sorry to hear about your radio woes with your Tipo.

Minor comment: the Tipo is not from the 90's. It was an early 80's design and was published in February 1980 by its designer Dick Hanson. Of course it is based on Prettner's earlier and very well known Curare design. These designs are now referred to as ballistic (there is a Ballistic Pattern Association - BPA) and are indeed meant to be fasts! [8D] There is no box for these models - they are pre-turnaround. A 12x12 prop on an SF would be a pretty big load not that it can't turn it but it would bring it down in the ~9K range - it would make for a very long pipe . A great prop on these SF/RF long strokes is a 12x10. Back in the day the short strokes turned 11x7.5's and 11x8's. In some cases even 11x7's. Engines like Rossi's just screamed on 11x7's!

David.

JRgraham

My Feedback: (1)

David,

Yeah that sounds about right. The one Ihad was a fiberglass fuse and foam wings/stab. Looks like about the same profile.

Good luck on the build, I really liked that plane.

Jim Clausen

I have some more work done. I am sonewhat limited on time as my wife had elective surgery and I am acting as a nursemaid and house husband. I do not mind these tasks at all. They just limit my time at building some.
I have rough shaped the fuselage and a lot more of that fun sanding and shaping is yet to come. The fuselage as it is right now weighs 528 grams or 1# 2 5/8 ounces. The entire fuselage was assembled or glued in place using polyester resin. I do this because I feel the the polyester resin sands much easier than the c/a's or epoxy. The only epoxied part in the fuselage is the firewall. Trying to keep weight down. The chin plate has not been installed because I am waiting for a motor mount and need to set the down and right thrust. That will requrie the motor mount to be installed, so that is on hold.
I did have a mishap when installing the carbon fiber spars. I tried to use polyester resin and it ate the foam up so I ordered another wing half and will start that anew when it gets here.
The vertical fin is about 3/4 built. For me that means that it is sheeted and still needs to be squared up at the connection of the ribs and sheeting before proceeding. I have attached pictures of the fuselage, one before rough shaping and one after.
Jim

Terry Bolin

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David, what a beautiful plane... good job on the graphics! Thanks for the pics..Terry B.

doxilia

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Jim,

looking good!

The only thing that comes to mind is with respect to the nose. I found it hard to shape the top nose blocks in the absence of the front block and nose ring being built before hand. Basically, the nose comes to a point (well, a 2.75" diameter) with the fuse sides arcing inward rather sharply in front of the firewall. If you have kept the fuse sides parallel to the nose ring at the width of the firewall, you should be able to obtain the desired shape by using some 1/2" or 3/4" tristock in front of the firewall and sanding to contour of the nose ring block. You might also need some tristock up against the nose ring block to fair the nose into the spinner. In short, the top blocks were the last thing I did but there are many ways to go about it so I'm eager to see your progress.

Watch any polyester resin and CA on foam - I guess you know now. I don't particularly like foam safe CA either as it gets guey and doesn't seem to dry (even with kicker) and it "strings". Epoxy in key areas (retract blocks, firewall, stab, foam sheeting) and wood glue are the way to go on these models for nice sandable surfaces. If you haven't done your wings yet, I like to use laminating epoxy (Z-poxy finishing resin is pretty good) for wing sheeting but polyurethane based glues are also used often (e.g., gorilla, elmers). You are probably well familiar with all this.

Keep up the good work.

David.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Terry,

not sure if your comment is directed at me (or at the little Tipo rather) but if so, many thanks. The Picorare was scratched with a foam wing and stab sheeted with 1/32" balsa and a built up balsa/ply fuse. Covering is all done with Monokote although the orange is Ultracote (and the blue is Ekonokote on the underside). Only the canopy area is painted in a metallic blue over scuffed white Monokote.

I am building a 60 size one too which will be finished in the same trim scheme. However, it's on the "slow burner".

Some mighty nice scale work there on your Jug too! What scale?

David.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Jim,

these shots of the glass fuse might be of some help for the carving work.

David.

Jim Clausen

Doxilla,
Thanks for the pics of the glass fuse. They help a lot. Also note that the tuck is roughly sanded in. I agree it is needed. Tuck pictures attached.
Between yesterday and today I managed some progress. I assembled the vertical fin and sheeted it. I used polyester resin there also. I sheeted the horizontal stabs using elmers wood glue on the perimiter and a contact cement was sprayed on the foam cores and the underside of the sheeting. I epoxied the leading and trailing edged in place and rough trimmed them off.
I have attached a picture of the empanage, as much as there is of if. I plan to create the rudder tomorrow.
I am almost at a stopping point for now waiting for a 32 inch sanding block and some rolls of sticky back sandpaper along with a motor mount which I should already have in place.
I do agree with adding triangular stock in the motor bay so that the final contours can be acheived.
Thats about all for now,
Jim

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Jim,

glad the pics help. Looking at the nose, it appears to be glued to the top blocks at the width of the firewall. The tristock will not be sufficient to provide the material to contour the nose. I'd recommend using some balsa doublers in the cowl area from the nose ring half way back. You could use full length doublers but you might run into space problems to get your engine mount in. If the mount fits with the full doublers, I'd do that. Once the doublers are in, then use 1/2" tristock along the bottom, chin, front and top corners. It will be a little congested while you fair the nose in to the spinner but once shaped, you can then hollow out the inside as needed to fit the engine. Make sure you also back the nose ring with a 3/8" piece of balsa - sort of a last former if you will.

I use 24" sanding blocks on 60 size foam wings but they are a little hard to control with one hand. If the wing is held fixed, then you can work a long block with both hands. Provided you are working on individual panels, I find that even 12" blocks work. The longer ones are nice when sanding the prepared sheeting prior to attaching to the cores. Once it's on the core, I only sand it lightly with 220 grit or higher with a 12" block.

It looks like your nose ring tracing on the top blocks might be 2.5" diameter. I'd recommend using the 2.25" nose ring and spinner of the design - looks much sharper!

Here's a shot of a wood fuse. This one is scaled up to 2m but otherwise its the same idea.

David.

Jim Clausen

Thanks Doxilla,
Every piece of information helps since I have not built this bird in about 25 years. Its still my fovorite. I have Focus with a Webra 145 AAR as a power source. I have had some issues with the carbon fiber pipe and just received a metal pipe from Macs. I will have to wait until I can get it mounted and crank it up to see if this is the cure. It starts up and runs okay for a few minutse and then loads up and dies. Mac's sent me some teflon couplers that I am going to try on it because it just melts out the silicone ones. That might be caused by the carbon pipe pluggin up and restricting the flow creating too much back pressuer. TIme will tell.
Today I roughed in the anhedral for the horizontal stab. Not going to do much more because of the gout in my left ankle/foot area. Waiting for the medication to take over. I buillt the rudder yesterday and have yet to install the hardwood dowel for the clevis. It still requires lots of shaping and sanding. Ya know the fun stuff.
I have not made up my mind about hinges but normally use robarts. I have not developed any confidence in the plastic or fabric ones. Also might use the sullivans with the pin in them. Any thoughts there?
Since I have never had a front retractable gear is ther a site that shows how the steering linkage is hooked up to the rudder servo?
I will try to post some pictures tomorrow.
Jim

JeffH

My Feedback: (43)

I have used the blue Radio South CA hinges on everything from an Ace Pacer to 25% Imac planes without a single failure. I had them on my Phoenix 5 as it cartwheel across the ground at 75 mph(Rx pack failed). Not one of the hinges failed. Now as far as the other brands are concerned, I would not use them on a foamy!

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Jim,

what retracts will you be using? Have a photo?

One of the tricky things on classic pattern models is getting the engine mount and nose gear installed and spaced out as needed. It is often much easier to take care of that kind of thing prior to framing up the fuse. Basically you locate the thrust line and then figure out the offset of the engine mount to account for down and right thrust (shown on plans). Once your mount is installed, you can then mount the nose gear and offset it as needed in order to clear the engine mount. It might be a tad tricky to get those tasks done with the framed up fuse but it is doable. A belly mount nose gear (if yours are designed with that option) might be easier to get installed with a framed up fuse. I would split the nose gear and fuel tank area with a 1/16" ply plate to provide a rest point for the fuel tank and a bay for the nose gear. I usually make two pairs of slots in the plate to allow the tank to be held down with two velcro straps with the tank sitting on a bed of foam. I can't recall if you mention power plant earlier but even if you are going to go electric the same procedure applied. The tank plate becomes a good battery plate. The ESC can go behind the battery or under the plate in the nose gear area. I made my top "canopy" area removable as the Pico was electric. You'll want to mount your nose gear to a 1/4" plate glued and re-inforced with tristock to the top of the tank plate. You then drill the 1/16" ply and 1/4" ply together to mount the nose gear. Ideally, the 1/4" ply would be locked into the firewall with tabs but that will be pretty hard to do now.

Don't worry too much about the nose gear linkage at this point. A basic pull-pull works best here by routing some small diameter nyrod through F2 and held in place with some small balsa blocks a the required width where the tiller arm on the gear is located. You;d mount the rudder servo centered in the fuse and use the same pull-pull system for the rudder with wires heading back. You'll want the rudder p-p wires mounted wide on the servo arm and narrower on the arm for the steering linkage. If you can. mount your elevator servo on its side for an arrow shaft/CF single forked elevator pushrod to drive both elevators. This servo is mounted further back in the fuse. I believe I posted some pics of my radio layout further up in the thread.

Here are some shots of the linkage on the Pico. I used the same exit for rudder and elevator but I'd recommend not doing this on a 60 size model - use two exits per side. Note the reversed position of the rudder and elevator servos longitudinally in the 60 size glass model above. The Pico was done this way as it has no landing gear so no steering is required.

David.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

I thought I'd posted my radio install in the glass fuse 60 version but I guess I didn't - here they are.

My nose gear retract installation is somewhat unconventional as these are vintage Kraft Multicon electric retracts. Modern electrics or pneumatics/mechanicals would have a much smaller body and mount with screws. The multicon is a press fit into a mounting box lined with foam - its actually a cool system. The gear is locked in there with a small ply tab to prevent it from vibrating loose.

David.

Jim Clausen

David,
Like I said all information appreciated.
I have Robart air up spring down and a rail mount nose gear. I thought that I would configure the mount for the nose gear after getting the motor mount installed. I have the aieleron servos in the wing just outboard of the main gears. I would have never thought of putting them as you have outlined in your drawing, (good idea though). I am waiting for the wire landing gears from Robart along with some axles. Wheels and collars I have.
I wanted the long sanding bar for the fuselage to maintain the contour on the fuselage for its length. I plan to use a radius gage for the top of the fuse, canopy and nose area. I have in fact drawn a 2.500 ring on the front of the aircraft but plan on shaping it to a 2.25 Tru turn after everything is installed on the nose like backing blocks to fill the area where the nose is contoured.

Jim

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Jim,

with the top blocks in place (as you have them), you will need to "measure out" the nose ring backing block thickness to put your spinner ring back 1/16" from the spinner backplate. This is all a bit tricky to do with the firewall and front built in and to specific length but it's all doable - just harder to do on a classic pattern design.

The drawing for the servo installation with the aileron servos inside the fuse was for my Pico which is gearless. I didn't want to have exposed servos on the wings as the linkages could tear out on belly landing. The installation is a basic torque rod setup except that I used individual servos in order to allow computer radio control on the surfaces (mixing and independent adjustment). The result is the same as you have but I too put the servos outboard of the retracts on my 60 size version - torque rods are not my favorite except on smaller models like the Pico (40" span).

Good plan on the spinner size. I used Robart hinge points in both versions - good choice.

First 4 shots - Tipo 60 (65" span). Other shots - Tipo 10 (40" span).

David.

Jim Clausen

I have taken pictures of the rudder with the vertical fin and will post it.
I also received my replacement left wing from Eureka and thanks to the post office I will need another. I have a call into Don Turnock but no reply as of now. I will post some pictures of that also. Meanwhile I will just chill out a little.
The leading edge on the horizontal fins is almost at final shape. Not too much more I can do at the moment.
Jim

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Jim,

what happened to your original left wing? That's a nasty bend in the replacement!

Hey, you could work on the fin tip! Stabs joined & glassed?

David.