<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; text-align: center;"><u><span style="font-size: larger;">KIT vs RTF</span></u></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in">I'm sure this has been done before. However, I'd like to share my quick and dirty analysis of kit building vs RTF. I was shocked at the small difference in actual price. I hope that RTF fliers give kit building a go and that kit builders use this post to persuade others to give kit building a chance.</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in">I used Tower Hobbies as the purchase store since it was easy to compile all the parts and get a final price list. I used the current tower hobby discount codes and tried to lay it out so you maximize the discounts available with seperate orders. Since all orders are over $150 shipping is free. Let's start with the kit side.
</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in"><u>Order #1</u>
Super Savers Club &ndash; $9.99</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in"><u>Order #2</u>
LXSFY3 - Futaba 6EX w/ 4 S3004 Servos - $259.98
Sub-Total - $259.98
010N5 &ndash; Tower $35 Discount
Total &ndash; $224.98</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in"><u>Order #3</u>
LXKF97 -TT .46 BB Pro - $109.98
LXJ557 - Great Planes PT40 Kit - $74.98
LXHV39 &ndash; Top Flite Monokote Blue - $12.99
LXHY24 &ndash; Top Flite 10x6 Prop &ndash; $2.49
Sub Total- $200.44
010N4 - Tower $30 Discount
Total - $170.44</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in"><u>Order #4</u>
LXFU50 &ndash; Sullivan 8oz Tank - $4.39
LXK129 &ndash; Silicon Fuel Tubing - $2.59
LXK214 &ndash; GP Spinner White 2 &frac14; - $5.29
LXK197 &ndash; GP Wing Tape 1/8&rdquo; - $1.79
LXL430 &ndash; Hobbico Latex Rubber &ndash; $3.39
LXHV22 &ndash; Top Flite Monokote White - $12.99
LXK190 &ndash; Wheel collars 5/32 - $1.79
LXK192 &ndash; Wheel collars 3/16 &ndash; $1.79
LXPT39 &ndash; Tower CA med 2oz - $5.99
LXJC82 &ndash; Tower Xacto Blade #11 - $1.49
LXK361 &ndash; Epoxy brushes - $1.39
LXPT46 &ndash; Tower 30 min Epoxy - $8.99
LXPT44 - Tower 6 min Epoxy - $8.99
LXD790 &ndash; Dubro Wheels 2 &frac14; - $5.99
LXD792 - Dubro Wheels 2 &frac34; - $6.49
LXM406 &ndash; Alignment Jig - $1.99
LXPT42 &ndash; Tower CA accelerator - $3.99
LXK134 &ndash; GP Fuel Filter - $3.29
LXL419 &ndash; Hobbico Field Box Combo - $129.99
(1) GPMP4155 FILLING STATION CAN FITTING SET
(1) HCAP0200 12V CHARGER FOR THE 12V 7A BATTERY
(1) HCAP0302 DELUXE POWER PANEL II
(1) HCAP0800 TORQMASTER 12V 7A BATTERY
(1) HCAP2200 5' RECOIL FUEL TUBING
(1) HCAP2502 PANEL READY LOCKING GLOW PLUG CLIP
(1) HCAP3107 PANEL READY TOP FUELER 6/12VOLT
(1) HCAP3205 PANEL READY TORQMASTER 90 12V STARTER
(1) HCAP5020 ULTRATOTE FIELD BOX
Sub-Total - $212.61
010N4 &ndash; Tower $30 discount
Total - $182.61</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in"><u>
KIT SUMMARY</u>

Order #1 $9.99
Order #2 $249.98 (Saved $35)
Order #3 $170.44 (Saved $30)
Order #4 $182.61 (Saved $30)</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in">Total cost- $ 613.02


Of course it's impossible to list everything a kit builder would normally have in his/her workshop. For example, Dremel, mitre box &amp; saws, sanding t-bars, various grades of sandpaper, pins, pliers, screwdrivers, ball drivers, etc... But the list above is pretty comprehensive when it comes to what is required.</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in">_____________________________________________ _____________________________

Now Let's look at an RTF. Here's an option below. I was shocked at the little difference in price.

Super Savers Club &ndash; $9.99
LXEXK2 &ndash; Hobbico Nextstar .46 Select RTF - $429 **
LXL419 &ndash; Hobbico Field Box Combo - $129.99
Sub-Total - $559.98
010N5 &ndash; Tower $50 discount

Total cost - $519.97</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in">
**You are only getting a simple 4ch radio with the RTF setup versus a kick arse 6 ch in the kit setup.
In addition the radio with this RTF is an FM radio and not a 2.4 system. Pretty crappy for $429.</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in">
Kit building &ndash; $610
RTF "building" - $520
Satisfaction of kit building -<span style="font-size: large;"> PRICELESS


</span>Latest TH discount codes. Jan 2012.
$100.00 - $124.99 $15.00 010N1
$125.00 - $149.99 $20.00 010N2
$150.00 - $199.99 $25.00 010N3
$200.00 - $224.99 $30.00 010N4
$225.00 - $249.99 $35.00 010N5
$250.00 - $299.99 $40.00 010N6
$300.00 or more $50.00 010N7</p>

the next thing that needs to be addressed is how sturdy is the kit built vs the arf. a well built kit will last 20 years, as i have observed most arfs last 2-3 seasons

I think the main issue missing is "How much do you value your time?? How much free time do you have??"

Another item missing is ARF's, which is sort of 1/2 way between RTF and kit.

A RTF is one evening at the most then fly the next day.

A ARF is maybe one week of evenings.

A kit is multiple  months of evenings at the very least.

I have gone all three ways (RTF, ARF and kit). Kit building is not for everyone and at the current cost of ARF's/RTF's, a kit build really doesn't save you any money. There are good ARF's/RTF's and there are bad, there are also mistakes made during a kit build (especially for new builders). Kit building has a huge degree of satisfaction but if you screw up and crash and burn on maiden then you watched 3 months of time go down the drain.

P.S. - As a disclaimer I am currently helping my son (12 years old) kit build a small plane but my next personal project is a ARF electric converted to glow.

While it is interesting to see the price comparison I dare say it is irrelevant to most people. Personally I thoroughly enjoy the build. I couldn't care less whether an ARF/RTF is cheaper or not than a kit/plans build. For others they have no desire to build. They want to buy a plane and fly the next day.

Of course the price difference could affect some people's decision but for most people you either like to build or your don't. I just don't get the constant debating I see about it (not to pick on this thread at all - just an example). I will never buy an ARF or RTF. But I have absolutely no issue with those that do.

But our hobby is not alone. Skiing versus snow boarding (I ski), hang gliding versus paragliding (I hang glide), power boats versus sail boats (I do neither), etc. People like what they like. I don't see any reason to convince anyone to go one way or another. Present the pros and cons and let each person decide what is right for them. In the end it is all fun.

Have fun whatever you choose.

Factor in the hourly rate and my last kit cost north of $80K.

Time is money, lots of money.

Why would you factor in an hourly rate for a hobby? Unless you are neglecting a job (and losing income as a result) then it is not valid to associate your pay with time spent on a hobby. Otherwise you need to do the same for eating, sleeping, using the bathroom, etc.

CKreef, you couldn't be more right about the time factor and that's why alot of people do get the RTF/ARF's. However, there is no
way to qauntify that. This was strictly a look at cost - $$. Not whether or not you have a basement, garage or lot's of free time.

Rmaddy, Idon't think it's irrelavant to most people. I hear all the time on this board and at the flying field how much cheaper
RTF or ARF's is versus kit building is. Clearly it's not when you look from the standpoint of what comes out of your wallet.
Like someone else said, this is a hobby, "hourly rate" as nothing to do with it. If we could factor that, Bill Gates couldn't support
some of the people on here. Of course this is a personal choice for many reasons.

Just trying to clear up a misconcepetion of cost here. About the ARF's. I'll take a look but off the bat it would appear to cost even
more since they rarely come with a radio.

If you are looking at the value of time, you are missing the point of building. For that matter, if you are looking at the cost of a kit or ARF or scratchbuilt, you and missing the point. Most of us that build kits or scratch build do it for the pure fun and satisfaction of the build. It is a hobby unto itself. If you choose not to participate in this hobby, it does not make you any less a flyer. You can make the same study of kit building a full scale plane vs. buying a certified aircraft. From a cost prospective it does not wash. The only justification for building is for enjoyment of the process.

... but, that's just me.

Bedford

If I looked at cost alone I sure would not be in this hobby! However in truth it is no more expensive than photography or motorcycling or my latest which is RVing in a 21' Gulf Stream motorhome. We all spend our disposable income as we please. We all wish we had more! More money and more time. I'm blessed with good health and a wonderful supporting family. Priceless.
John

PS When I did a cost analysis a couple of years ago there was no way I could build a kit less electronics and motor for what I could buy an ARF. I don't care I love to build, but 1/2 my fleet is ARFs. Sometimes I get this wanta have it now craving real bad.

It makes perfect sense to do so if the part of the hobby you enjoy is flying rather than building.

All I can tell you is that I Love to build my own stuff. play with arfs,watch whoever is flying and enjoy it all anyways. spend toooo much on my hobby but will fly until I cant..just enjoy cause we can't take with uson the final flight.........

That was my point. If we did factor in those things we would never build. So why worry about $100 this way or that?

An indirect point you made rather nicely, as it would apply to me for anyone who might ask: "Don't bother asking me to build something for you... you couldn't afford it."

For those who do enjoy the build, there is no comparison. I scratch build and get to hand select meterial and method for each step of the process. I had a friend say he couldn't build as well as an ARF. I told him that was sad, and he could change that if he really wanted too. He likes ARF's and that is great ( for him). I will stick to kit, or better yet scratch building. The cost thing is very close. The end result is where the real comparison should be. The kit built will greatly outlast the ARF. I have some kit builts that are 20 + years old and still going. That is a great part of our hobby there is pretty much something for everyone. Our job is to enjoy it!

PilotFighter - Sorry, I guess I misunderstood your point. Sounds like we agree - equating building time with money is silly

piper_chuck - I have no issue with someone just wanting to fly and not building. But that doesn't mean you should associate non-flying time with an hourly rate. The time spent building does not cost you money.

I enjoy building but have some ARF's. My problem is the price of kits. I think apples for apples, time not included, ARF's are cheaper. Not sure how, other than the ARF manufacturer buys in massive bulk. Somebody cuts their kits as well but if they are purchasing 100 of them and I am only purchasing 1. They are purchasing 1,000 feet of monokote and I am purchasing 6. Throw in that they have to pay someone and make a profit. I say to each his/her own. I like them all, just wish there were more kits on the market and they weren't so expensive. Glad lasers have come along!

John

Gap, +1



Dave Olson

I'm on a very fixed income. Money factors into everything I do and has for several decades. I was no longer able to buy kits so I started building from plans. Buying my wood in bulk from places like Lone Star and National comes out a lot cheaper plus I always have wood in stock in my shop.
This is a photo of my last summers build. Wood and plans, under $100.00 glass and the deft sanding lacquer just a couple of bucks. Paint {Latex} just a couple of bucks. I had the LG and canopy on hand so the price was zero but if I had to buy them {when I had to buy them} was under $50.00. Hardware was about $15.00. So, an 80 inch 1/4 scale Sukhoi 29 cost me under $200.00 to build. First one I built took me 6 weeks, this one 6 months. I no longer spend long hours in my shop, I have other things going on and this is just one of my hobbies.
I can't compare it to a RTF but I can compare it to an ARF. I still needed the engine and all gear. Servos can cost a big bunch, I had themn on hand though. RTF usually means a small little electric so there is no real way to compare.
I have no problem with ARFs other then they are not strong enough to put up with my flying. Compare this plane to an ARF of the same size and you are more in the relm of the real world.
Time spent in building this plane?? Who would I have to pay for all the pleasure I got out of it???

First, I don't think adding in the flight box is valid in the comparison - it is needed either way. So that makes it $390 versus $480 which is nowalmost a 25% difference. Second, as you point out building requires tools that you don't typically have with an RTF. That makes it even more.
But what you are really trying to get to is that building is a lot of fun - to some people. I love to build and have done several. But I also love to fly and when I crashed my kit-built PT40 I got back in the air quick with an ARF. Now I have been out of it for about 10 years and have a limited flying season in a limited flying area so I went with a smal electric RTF to get back up. But this winter it's another kit I put away far too long and am having a ball .

In summary, i really wish people wold stop brining up this kit versus RFT versus ARF. It is not useful and only creates animosity.
And yes that was from someone who likes to create animosity

You might need to look around a little more. I'm one of the people that own 2 ARF aircraft and one is 15 years old! I restored it last year and she's good for another 15 years or more. Eventually I might retire it after 10 years, and make it a hanger queen. Too many are pressuring me including my wife to do so because I made it look very good. The other ARF I have is now 4 years old and still looks as good the day I finished assembling and building details on it. Both were well built and was very sturdy. Only the DR1 needed a little improvement. But because I got it used and it was not in flying condition, I had to do a complete rebuild and modification on it. It was a labor of love, and I believe every discontinued ARF deserves a good existence because of the simple fact that we can't replace them so easily.


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10..._1/key_/tm.htm


Both my planes will be in the next March issue of MA on page 82.

Winter storage:


S.T.A.R.S. Airshow AMA District II


ARF, Kits, RTF and RTC- they are all good. I have built from scratch, built kits, Bashed ARF's and kits not to mentioned owned a few RTF and BnF. I enjoy a ARF from time to time and I'm happy we have choices what we choose to own or fly. In the air I can't tell if a plane is a RTF, ARF, KIT or ready to cover half the time. I can't tell you how many times people have come to me and said, "I didn't know it was a ARF!"

This kind of topic only comes up in RCU and RCG and never at a club, or at shows. I don't look down on anyones airplane and I'm just happy that they are in the club and have something to fly. The arrogance that I see here at times would not be accepted at most clubs. I know first hand if I were to hear of anyone negatively gossiping about someone elses airplane better find a new club, because I would be the first to write a grievance and we'll both be standing tall before the President and Vice. We have 50+ members and we don't tolerate that kind of thing.

These topics do no good in promoting the hobby and bringing in beginners. I feel that it puts a stain on the hobby and can chase people away. If you like building kits only- well good for you, your choice. If you want respect you have to know how to give it back in return.

Don't forget, not everyone has the talent and or skill to build kits. Lets just be happy the market has reached those who wouldn't have been in this hobby otherwise.

Enough said!

Pete

It took many years for the quality of ARFs to surpass those of kits but the time has arrived. All ARFs are not equal and they can be classified as; poor,good, better and best. Kits may never vanish completely but the ratio of those sold compared to ARFs is loopsided and the gap will only widen.

After over 40 years in this hobby, I can say that I have seen them crash, and there is no difference when you stall a ARF or a kit built... At our fileld we have a line of trees that from time to time jump, and suck an airplane ot of the air. Trust me when I say, they do not differentiate either if it is kit built or ard...

So, to say that this or that lasts less or more is obvious nonsense. I had a radio problem once, and I lost all control over my C Goldberg Cub way up there... It came down very fast, and I had nothing... Would it have been different with an ARF? No. An ARF would have crashed the same as the Goldberg...

Gerry

???? how is my time not worth something? Even if retired, time spent on one thing might better be spent on another. The ONLY reason that I would build something is if I want it bad enough and an ARF is not available.
An individual has to decide; is the hobby flying or building?

I love to build. I've built kits, and am working on a plans build now. I own ARF's, and BNF's and RTF's. I have no problems with people that fly ARF's, There is a guy I fly with that cannot build. (trust me, he CAN NOT build). There is another guy that physically is unable to build anymore. Both of them are way better pilots than me. I build because I like it, not because it makes me better than anyone else. It does give me a personal sense of satisfaction flying something I built though, and that is something that more than makes up for any cost difference no matter what kind of math you use!