kias0r

Hey everyone

I have just joined the site, this will be my first time building a RC plane. I have made lots of plastic models etc when i was younger but nothing of this size, out of wood, or RC!!
I am of-course open to any help i can get and from reading a few posts you guys sound like you know your stuff!
Although this is my first build and, you may consider this setting up for a disaster, I'm starting with a ben buckle - Matador http://www.benbucklevintage.com/inde...products_id=37
Which has no instructions, only the blueprint itself which is illogical in order, repeats itself and has strange hand written notes in places, that have not been printed through very clearly.... i wanted a challenge
I am studying aircraft engineering or aerospace engineering at university next year hence why i'm getting into the modelling hobby. I am interested in aerodynamics, engines, flying and the math's of flying so
will enjoy the build and hopefully overcome any problems and learn from my mistakes (It was quite cheap).
Enough talking! will post some pictures now.

I wanted to show the pinning down stage but my photo's are too large to be attached unfortunately, this is where i am now.

foodstick

Good for you ! it looks like you are doing great for a first time build, of an obscure kit... I can't say that I have ever built one of those... It will be fun watching you become addicted to the building. I would think with your future schooling , and your quality work.. you will be a lifer ! hahahahh

kias0r

hahah well thankyou! I think i am already addicted, (according to GF) and i must say i haven't thought about much else since starting!
Can i squeeze in a question or two already, the picture on the end of the gussets supporting the longerons, its supposed to be drilled to take some dowel, but the first two attempts split what is really a very small triangle of balsa!! i was considering using some harder wood but would need to buy some, any advice there would be great.
Secondly could anybody possibly give me a link to a suggested set of servos and battery that you would use with a weight saving vintage model like this, that would be fabulous xD

jonny

R8893

My Feedback: (20)

jonny, common twist drills do not work well in thin balsa as you have discovered. Sharpened brass tubing used as a drill will get the job done. Also, forstner bits work better than twist drills in balsa. Try this link to calculate the torque you would need for the servos: http://agert.homelinux.org/~fredrik/flyg/servo.html
Chuck

kias0r

hey chuck, thanks. I just typed some figures in and got 1.8 oz per inch. I will have a look into some tubing or research this forstner bit asap, its holding me up a bit! just got started on the rear wing. There are no ailerons on this model!
So the control surface is small and i guess needs a relatively weak servo.

3136

KiasOr, you don't need to drill a big hole. That balsa dowel doesn't protrude outside the fuse, you'll need to attach a thin metal pushrod to it, that will be what goes outside the fuse to connect to the elevator.
That will need to be more of a horizontal slot than a hole, which you can cut with a sharp knife.
Or you could drill a hole at an angle that will match the path from servo to the elevator.
Sometimes a reaming tool is good for this, you can get the opening to the size you want, then use a drill bit in your fingertips to parrallel out the hole.

BTW when you attach the metal pushrod to the dowel, drill a hole through the dowel, maybe 4cm from the end, bend a section of the metal pushrod equal to the thickness of the dowel at 90 deg. insert that bent part in the dowel and then wrap the pushrod and dowel with thread and glue.
Or you could do it a more modern way and buy some golden rod (nylon rod in a flexible sleeve)

R8893

My Feedback: (20)

The dowel does go outside the fuselage; it is for rubber bands to hold the stab on.

3136

my mistake, I was looking at the other dowel.

Zor

Hello KiasOr,

Welcome to the forum where you can get much help.

The triangular pieces into which holes are made for the dowels that will hold the elastics to fasten the stabilizer.
If you have some three ply wood about 1/8" or 3/16" thick I wouls use that for the triangles.
I would cut them for the outside surfae wood grain to be the hypotenuse of the triangles.

Then to save money I would use a regular drill bit while holding the triangles on a soft wood like pine or spruce.
Drill the holes first in a larger piece of wood then make the triangles and cut them after the holes have been drilled.

You now have pieces ready to be glued in place.

It this is not clear to you I will gladly do the pieces and post photos.

Zor

Zor

KiasOr,

I am trying to post a sketch of what I talked about in my previous posting.

Zor

Editing . . .
Looks like it worked ok this time
So you can drill the holes in any size material and cut the triangles after the holes have been drilled..

If you wish a tight fit you can drill the holes a bit smaller and finish with a rat tail file.

Zor

kias0r

Thanks for the replies!
3136 I don't blame you for getting a little confused, I only posted one corner of the design and its hard enough to understand full scale :P.
Zor what an excellent idea! The best ideas always seem obvious once discovered, thanks for taking the time to do the diagram!
Got on with that now and cut my first one, used your technique, also i brought the hole in from the edge slightly on both sides and finally i set the drill to reverse! (read on the forum about drilling balsa this way) it worked very well.
I have quite a few problems with inconsistencies in the drawing at the front end which im hoping to post and get help with!!
For now though i have this question (on train to college so can't post pics)
I've just ordered a cheap transmitter and receiver from hobbyking the HK6S bundle, and wondering what battery i will need or what connection will be standard on the receiver? ill try post a link for you now, phone playing up!

kias0r

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...x_Mode_2_.html

Zor

Is this rig a full range system ?

Zor

kias0r

Hi Zor to be honest im not entirely sure what that means. But I've read some good reviews and for the price, I thought it was worth a go anyway
Some people have said they have had less problems or issues with these than there much more expensive kit!

kias0r

Zor

Hi KiasOr,

There are rigs (transmitter and receiver) that have a short range (distance of reliable contact) used in park flying in whcih the model is not large (usually less than 48 inches wingspan) and the model is always within 500 feet or so (160 meters).

Full range rigs are allowing contact further than model visibility for control. When the model is so far as to become unable to judge its attitude and control it.

For the price it sure is worth a try but I would suggest you make range test to see how far from the model you can go before losing control.
These test are done while the model is on the ground or sitting on a picnic table. You would not want to lose control and have your model fly away on its own with potential damage to property or people.

Zor

Leroy Gardner

If you are going to have a lot of holes to drill, yes the forstner bits are great for 1/4" and up and Harbor Freight has a nice set to 1" and Brad points work well also for 5/16" and smaller holes. when drilling balsa you need a hard backer board behind the hole to prevent tear out on back side, same for the forstner bits. There are two kinds of forstner bits and you want the ones that have a perimeter cutter longer than the clean out cutter and you need a recess behind it for the bottom to go in. I do a lot of this lightening up ribs, Hole saws will work on larger holes but you have to be careful as they can tear up balsa. A drill press works best for drilling holes regard-less of the bit, however you can't always do that.

Good to see a young man getting into this, there is something special about airplanes, I was (no longer) a certified A&E mechanic, now I build scale models and fly them. good luck with your new found fun thing.

Leroy

kias0r

Thanks Leroy! Great information I have modified my methods already and everything people are suggesting is working great.
the only problem I have is the funds to buy new electronic tools and such which would be handy as I have no money as a student!
So doing everything by hand, but modifying and taking onboard as much advice as i can.
Will post some pictures shortly as i have made some good progress now.

Jonny

kias0r

By the way Leroy, what aircraft did you work on and have you retired, or changed jobs? If you don't mind me asking. Interested!

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Nice looking job so far!

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I haven't seen a Matador sense about 1961 but back then it was a very popular plane. I built an old school plane similar over the last winter, it was designed in 1946 or 42. Also a two channel. I just used Hitec HS 81 servos and went with an electric motor. The plane was so light weight and a floater it didn't need anything more. Have to hand it to you, stick building isn't easy and going old school like this without instructions like the kits have today is very impressive. For drilling holes in balsa I just use brass tubes and bevel the inside as mentioned and drill the holes by hand, just twisting the tube back and forth. Gives you a nice clean hole. I did use light ply, 1/8 for the gussets that held down the wing. Needed?? That's what the plans showed so I used it. I learned to fly with two teenage boys, one kept flying RC while going to school, he is now an aircraft engineer with Boeing and loves is work. Good luck to you.
Gene

kias0r

Hey!
Sorry i have not been posting any progress made recently, Very busy!! but that includes being busy building too . This is how Its gone .... I usually spend many hours just pondering and not doing much but staring at the plan and plane from various angles thinking, then i have a burst of productivity for a while get quite a bit done until i get stuck again.
So ill show you where i am!

kias0r

Just did another two shots to give you some more angles, caught the only minute of sun that's shone today too hehe!

kias0r

Great to hear your experiences gene, thanks for the advice with servos still only briefly looked into that to be honest, so much to learn from all different areas! Read some threads recently about people crashing matadors back when they build them in the 60-70's which got me a bit scared!
By the way do you know if a 2.5 cc OS max 15la glowplug engine would be too much for this plane? if fits in the engine mounts from the plan just about, 1-2mm outside of the engine they have recommended, but there so old there hard to get hold of. Plus i wanted a new engine because i wanted that part to work perfectly at least
jonny

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Jonny, you will find an engine built today will have considerably more power than one built in the 70s. Glow engines have improved that much! If you stick with the recommended engine from the designer you should have plenty of power.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

The LA/Max is an old bushing design and is what we were using in two channel gliders not too long ago. Very easy engine to operate and very reliable, it should be fine in this plane as long as the fire wall is held in good. The reason there were so many crashes way back when wasn't the plane but the radio gear we had at that time. With the LA engine it will be a three channel, throttle/rudder and elevator. Throttle on the left stick and elevator and rudder on the right stick. Way back when not all the engines had a throttle either, just fired them up at full power and took off, landed when they were out of fuel. Not as easy as it sounds and the plane was used as an RC trainer and it was before we had the buddy box for learning. The plane was also used as a free flight.
I built my old school plane for a friend and he has gone all electric so that is why I built it the way I did. Electric power is great these days sense we now have the batteries required. In my case setting up/building the area for the battery pack was the hardest part. I was in luck though. Even with the big blow up tires I used it still required nose weight and when I had the battery installed up front where it was easy to get in and out the CG came out dead on. Just dumb luck but it worked.
For servo selection you can look on Servo City and read what is on the market these days. I used the HS 81s because the plane didn't need anything bigger and I had them on hand. There are better servos that are the same size but with bigger motors and steel gears. Needed?? Probably not but there is a good selection to choose from these days. My plane was very light and it was built with hardwood sticks, yours should even be a lot lighter. I used a very light weight see through covering too but in hind site I would give a lot of thought to silk span and dope? Maybe silk span fuse with the plastic covering on the wing and stabs? Just choices but these days we have a lot of them.
Your doing a great job and a lot less swearing then I did. Balsa sticks are was better to work with then hardwood!!
Gene