[QUOTE=sierratango;11977369

YOU ONLY GO AROUND ONCE![/QUOTE]

Not if you're a Buddhist!

Oh and it's Handley Page not Hadley.

We live in a society that wants instant gratification.
I'm not going to bash arfs, they have helped our Hobbies technology explode with rc flying becoming more popular than it was 40 years ago when I was a kid. This drives people to develop better technology. The sad thing is in the spring you show up at the field and everybody talks about the build of their new arf. How was the build someone asks? I have arfs "you don't build them." People tell me that I don't have the time or the skills to build. Hey guess what I wasn't born a good woodworker these skills had to be learned over time. As far as time is concerned people are texting / chatting on Facebook and searching U tube while watching there 60" hi def tv's after eating takeout dinner. People have time they just choose to use it on other things. It's a choice! I am not bashing peoples lifestyles, it's a choice.

The thing is that for me flying a model you have built from a kit/ short kit or plans is a awesome experience. You see a box of wood turn into a flying machine. Back in the day springtime at the field was more exciting when everybody had a shiny new hand built plane they built and they all had character and a story to tell. Today you see a line of cookie cutter planes that you have already seen.

i am finishing a Sig 1/6" scale cub that I am converting to electric and it has been a great trip down memory lane a true builders kit.
Try a new mountain models kit you can build almost the whole cub before adding glue, many of the new generation kits are awesome.
respectfully John

I agree that we live in a society that demands instant gratification, and I would add that people generally will take the path of least resistance. Not just in modelling, but pretty much everything. Manual transmission car? Heavens no, too much work: gimme an automatic. TVV remotes were designed so people didn't have to get up off the counch to change channels. And now today we have cars where you don't even need to open a door or liftgate: you press a button and have the car do it for you. It takes five times as long, but it seems people would rather wait than jut do it themselves. And I'm always amazed when we go to our daughter's school for some function or other (she's in grade 3) how many parents, young, healthy people in their 30s, just automatically hit the handicapped button to open the front door. I don't think it EVER crosses their minds that they can, in fact, grab the door handle and pull it open themselves.

I'm not saying it's good or bad: it's just the way it is. So the fact that ARFs have become the predominant force in R/C flying doesn't surprise me in the least. They're not for me, but then again I prefer a manual transmission too. I suppose I'm just tuck in the past maybe.

As for the argument that it takes awauy from family I take the opposite tack: I think it PROMOTES family time. My daughter and I realy enjoy building together, even if sometimes she breaks or loses something, or otherwise impedes the propgress a bit. It's absolutely wonderful time we spend together, and while my wife doesn't participate as much sher enkoys seeing the two of us working together. And, when it['s all done. we all get to go out and try to fly it. Very cool. I think she's learning patience, manual skills, and that something worthwhile can take some time but in the end you have pride of workmanship and creation and the satisfaction of a job well done.

Obviously in society we all have and own things that others built for us. I don't build my own furniture or sew my own clothes. But then again those aren't my hobby either, and where I choose to spend personal time and money. But my hobbies, including plastic model building and photopgraphy among others, I like to do it myself. To me taking out a new plane that came out of a box and looks the very same as 5,000 others just like it just doesn't appeal.

There are many ways to enjoy a hobby. Those are some thoughts on my approach.

NAA .... he's just missing the other Fuse to put between the wing tips . then U can have 2 motors tanks/Batteries Tails and 2 tail wheels ... 4 mains ?????? LOL
Does look good though ...

What I can figure how U Retired BUILDERS have time for Building when U cansider we O'L Gezzers nee a 10, 11 O'Clock NAP a 12:30 Seasta a 1,2,3,&4 O'clock NAPs and 4 hours snoring in the recliner before waking up to go to bed.

OOPS gota get to the field .. Bought 4 planes yesterday and it's either sell 2 or spend a few thousand on a bigger trailer OH then I gota buy a big Truck to Pull it ... Damn this is gett'n SPENSIVE.

well sadly I have been helping my son build from scratch a Horton. its one of those German flying wing things idk which one, they all look the same to me. no fuse to give it some character (haha). anyways 5 years ago he was perfectly content to fly at the ball field w all his friends, he had some f-18 with a 30 or so in wing span and he flew the pants off it. he would not go to the local club with me because they had burned lots of bridges with the "Rogue flyers". i went through a time when i could not walk so he would take me to the club field to watch and i brought a plane. a wood plane. built from a box of sticks. and he flew it. and liked it. then he flew another and another, pretty soon he was telling me he like this one over that one and why. non of the manufacturing offerings gave him everything he wanted and then he came up with this Horton and plans. i hate it but he loves it. he has what he calls the fuse done. i call it the part of the wings the fans and retracts go in. next the outboard wings.

relax they will come around. and if they done good for them

While I have nothing against ARFs or RTFs, I've never owned nor flown one - I've seen a fair number fly and most of them seem to be fairly good.

For me, building is half the fun - plus, I know exactly how they've been assembled so I have a lot more faith in their capabilities. However, I doubt that ANY ARF or RTF will ever last as long as my kit & scratch built planes have. Tomorrow is supposed to be good (low 50's) so I have a number of OLD planes about to lift off - two will be maidens.

Carl Goldberg Sr. Falcon - I built her in 1974 and she's flown constantly, until this past September when the engine compartment came apart in my hands. Totally restored, she'll lift off tomorrow.
Front end before she fell apart Looking for good wood to attach new nose to
Totally restored, ready to go

Carl Goldberg Eaglet - built in 1986, crashed in 1993 (that dreaded "figure-9), given to me in 2011. Totally rebuilt, will maiden tomorrow.
Not much to start with. Wings were damaged but decent, surprisingly
Ready to go. Original radio but new engine & fuel tank

Carl Goldberg Gentle Lady - built in 1988, flown until 1991. Restored, will lift off tomorrow.


AFI Super Monterey glider - built in 1974, crashed in 2004. I got her this past October. Totally rebuilt, she'll maiden tomorrow.
These are the parts I received, along with the wings which were in good shape
Red is original parts, all else is new
New radio is installed, ready to go

I don't think we'll be seeing ARFs this old, and still flying - ever.

One drawback of an ARF are the molded parts. Once they are sold out, thats it no more. Since there are no plans, you toothpick one, there is no going back, where if I toothpick one of my built ones, I can restore it with the plans. If the ARF is a copy of a kit though, like the LT-40, 4* series, Top Flite Warbirds, then you can rebuild one. In fact some of those you can buy kit parts for, like the 4* 120 I have, If I want to rebuild the one that the wing separated on, I could buy the fuse kit, and repair the wings and it will fly again.

I have to agree with ACDII. ARFS have their place, obviously. However in addition to acdii's comments, when you learn to build, at least from a kit you get a better understanding of how to repair or modify/beef up the ARF. I have seen way too many ARF's go down due to poor construction and then just get trashed and then they just buy another off the shelf. With some building experience you can better identify weaknesses and make the proper corrections for a long time romance.

ACII you just inspired me to take my TF AT-6 ARF out of the recycle bin and see if I can find some plans to build/modify the wing and landing gear stance. I have totally destroyed two wings due to the gear (read bad landings).

FS has parts for kits and ARF, cowls, canopies, and other parts.

TB

Listen to your selves I'm xx old I been in this hobby xx years and I been a builder for xx years .... What ARF and RTC, RTF have done is kept this Hobby/sport costs with in reason ... Yes U need plans and balsa and light ply to build but When have U last built Your own Motor Servers, Transmitters, Retracts, even your own connectors and extensions. With out a large costumer base The company's that make these types of necessary parts, we could not afford, what would be available. And they may not be available at any price.
Think about it, we/all Builders and non builders alike need a large base of users or none of us would be able to afford this hobby. So be happy that there a large number of people that don't need, want, even care to build Just be happy they even pay the club dues so your/our costs don't sky rocket. So let us not ask "Where have all the builders gone but Where are we going to get the Hobby/Sport BASE to support the H/S so those that choose to build are able to afford to. JMHO and U know about Opinions and AH's

FS. Has about any part out there I picked up a cowl and pants for a old Lanier kit a few weeks ago

What is FS?

Fiberglass specialty

Hound Dog, I don't understand what this means.

Because you are Brit. Opinions are like Arse Holes, everybody has one. Let's see it this is not censored by the correctness department...

Gerry

I've had lots of all types (ARFs, kit built, plans built, scratch built). Currently I'm down to two ARFs out of 10 aircraft. I think it boils down to personal preference and what kind of resources are available, including personal resources. I've seen some incredibly talented pilots who work 80 hours a week and hire someone to built their birds. When it comes to ARFs, tho, there's a lot of **** out there. You get what you pay for applies. I've had good luck with Hangar 9 and TopFlite, beyond that I can't say.

"Just my Humble Opinion" and the rest is about opinions and *****holes, in that everybody has one. Some will add on that both stink, depending on their point of view.

I think there are two separate arguments here. Hobby shop support has been greatly undermined by the internet: people buy stuff online, and lots of it. I think more than anything that's what has led to the loss of so many hobby shops. There were more around when kits were the norm, so by a simple correlation you could say that the rise of the ARF/RTF is responsible for the loss of hobby shops. But I don't think it's that simple.

I don't think many people EVER built their own radios, retracts, or other accessories to any great extent so I'm not sure hat the argument is there.

To my way of thinking a good hobby shop not only sells items but provides advice and expertise, which is my opinion were just as needed (maybe more so?) back in the days of kit building. I think with everything done there just isn't the requirement for a center of expertise as there was in the past. That seems to be more and more passed down through tribal knowledge, although that's always been how it's happened to some degree.

That's what I mean there aren't enough builders to support Manufactures so with out ARF/RTF's U could not afford the parts u can't make. They may have helped U for a while but in a year after I started in R/C I knew more than any one working in the OLD Hobby Shops about PLANE stuff all these Kids know is Cars. And NO O'l or New carries Giant Scale anything..
I always *Except on Lipos) I go to the O"L Hobby shop and ask can U get this for me most of the time T cn't/Handle or they don't carry that. Try and buy a 22=10-6 Prop. Or a Composite prop. or a giant scale Kit Tower sells them and the O'L HS could get it but I can't buy and never could get the Metal Gear Digital servos 80 cc twin or the Big LIPOS and big motor and speed contron if i go "Lectric" Al they want to sell is the quick sail stuff. and there is no GOOD advice anymore/ever ...OR they wouldn't sell a Newbe a P-51 ect ... It's all about the SALE they go out and crash in 15 seconds and never come back ... They also don't tell the NEWBE know that after spending $300+ dollar they should spend another $68 on the AMA and another $50 to $135 to jouin a club and at least maybe save the plane sor a while, If they made sure the NEWBE had a GOOD experience they have a costermor for LIFE. At least till he listened to all the O'l SOB that saved 50 cents cause they went down to the GOOD Hobby Shop and the Kid didn't know what the guy was talking about or the O'l Cheepo checked it out and went to Hobby King anyway,
But the title of this is Where have all the builders gone. Most of the really good ones have died. that's where all the Builders have gone Pretty soon there won't be any more ...Where have all the WOOD boat makers gone to pushing Daisies every one.

I have been builkding for years, I'm now 64. Would like to find a 1/4 scale or 1/5 scale Curtiss Robin to build.

My god that hurts to read. I quit after the first sentence.

Hobby shops these days cater to pansy car people. Difference between those of us who fly, regardless of WHAT we fly, and the dirt chasers, when something goes wrong with our stuff, it usually winds up crashing. When something goes wrong with theirs, they shut it down and walk over and pick it up.

I went to a LHS and asked about some things about building my plane, I got a blank stare. Meanwhile, way in the back there is this loudmouth talking about shooting racoons with his airsoft. The two big items they have, cars and airsoft. No challenge in either of those two. What really sucks, the ceiling is covered with all kinds of planes, mostly kit built, and maybe a few ARF, but none for sale. What a waste.

[QUOTE=acdii;11979282]My god that hurts to read. I quit after the first sentence.
Ditto
As I pointed out in an earlier post, those electric modelers are getting quite creative using alternative building materials, like combining different types of foam with balsa, heavy paper, carbon fiber and so forth. They are sourcing their materials from places other than the LHS with limited building supplies. An added benefit, not as much expensive balsa s being used.
Rick

I don't know if it's been mentioned here, or not, but there has been quite an explosion in parts kit availability for models built from plans. At least 4 websites are offering them, and that total is well over 200 aircraft.

slightly off topic, ... but....I keep seeing a couple statements in this thread that are myth more than reality..

-ARFs are cheaper than kits.
not if you compare apples to apples
for example, top flite .60 sized p-40 kit is 199.99, and the arf is $339. you can argue that after buying coverring, gas tank, hinges, spinner, and everything else you get in the arf that the costs are comparable, but you'll be within a buck or two. Its really more of a question of "do you want to build or don't you?"

-ARFs help to keep down the rising costs of our hobby.
our hobby has never been cheaper. Lets pull out my Dad's Scale R/C modeler magazines from 1976.

4 channel Sanwa ( airtronics ) radio? $264, or $1108.55 in todays dollars


kit prices? on par with 1976, they have only gone up a $100 or so...





anyway, I get that it is off topic, i just don't think cost is the main factor in less people building... I think it is "don't want to"

just saw a 1/4 scale curtiss robin at a swap meet in January ready to go mius the receiver, had a 26cc zenoah, guy was asking $250 or best.