Hi everybody. I thought I would share some pics of the mods I've done on this plane. I've had it since May 2004. I picked it up at a swap meet from one of my best buddies (he had it from an estate). I got the already built fuse, and the rest of the kit for $30 (like I said, a good friend). I wanted to make it 3-Dish, even though I've read about the snapping habits of the plane. I am going to power it with a 45cc Homey, that will put out 22-25 pounds of thrust. My AUW should stay in the 15 pound realm. I should at least be able to hover the thing, I would think. It is sheeted with 1/16th balsa. I added about 2 pounds doing this with poly glue.

In the first pic , you will notice the big honkin' Hitec (177 oz) 1/4 scale servo for my rudder. It is probably not neccesary, but it needed a home.

Second pic shows my elevator mod. I eliminated the long fiberglass rod, and corresponding linkage. It weighed in at 1.7 oz. My Hitec 475's wiegh 1.5 oz each. I figure that will be a good offset for the Sullivan smoke system that is going in the front.

I don't want to sound negative here, but we have had tow of these and both of them came out to be 17-18 pounds covered in Econokote and built exactly to spec. That foam is heavy! That said, it does the best tumbling maneuvers out there!!!! It will snap if you blink wrong on landing. Pull the elevator too hard in flight--- snap! It flies very scale and graceful. It looks great with smoke on. I just can't see you coming in at 15 lbs. With the wood, I would guess you will be knocking on 20lbs.

JeffH, I have never weighed it all, until today after reading your reply. The first weight of 7 lbs 9.5 oz is the airframe with all the radio gear, minus a throttle servo. It is also missing a pilot, and is not covered (Monokote) yet. My second weight of 5 lbs 9 oz is the landing gear; and all the engine stuff, minus a prop, a muffler, prop adapter, velocity stack and mount. My third weight of 11.3 oz is the fuel tanks, and smoke pump.

That puts me under 14 pounds lbs right now. I guess that foam is heavy, but I think I will keep it under 20 pounds. Thanks for the heads up.

I recently aquired one and was planning on putting a 3W 60 on it. Call me insane but there are so many 80 inch caps and giles out there with 60cc gasers on them.......arent there? The snap thing is news but sounds to be controlable.

Good luck on your maiden flight, it is always the one to remember!

How did you hold the wood in place as the glue cured? I have one of these ready to fly. ST 3000 on ignition.

The sheeting is held on with polyurethane (Elmer's ProBond). The fuse was done one sheet at a time, using lots of masking tape and wieghts. Same for the tail feathers. I had a little help with the wing. I happen to know a wing cutting expert, and we made a whole new set of wings and saddles using the existing wing as a template. We used those saddles and a lot of weight to sheet the wings. I also now have another set of wings for another project. Total cost of the new wings is about $4. Total time to cut them was about 2 hours. Sheeting was about an hour.

I got the rudder and right wing covered tonight. It's lookin sweet, and I can't wait to start my trim job on her. I managed to do an excellent hinge sealing job on the right wing, if you don't mind me bragging. IF anyone has more questions, feel free to ask. I'll post some pics in the near future.

The factory wings are heavy. How do yours compare? Also how are you going to attach them as the Byron units are made with internal woods and aluminum durring the manufacturing.

Eagle Flyer, I used the original wings, I used the saddles I made to hold the sheeting while it cured. I just weighed a covered half, and it came in at 1 pound 10.9 oz. So I guess a little over 3 pounds for both wings.

would you be interested in selling, or making me a set of the foam wings that yall made? Just the cores and shucks.

Me too. I am contemplating a ducted fan SPAD. This design should work

Guys, I'd like to help you out, but the guy that does the cutting is going to be gone until the 3rd or 4th of March. Not only that, but; even though it is only $4 in material, it would take 2 guys 2-3 hours to cut and get the wings and 'shucks' (is that the technical term? We just call them saddles) made to spec. Then you would have shipping costs, then you would have to figure some sort of spar out to fit your specific application, not to mention the wing mounts. I just don't think it is worth the trouble. Sorry.

I was expecting 30-40 bucks in costs. I dont want any spars cut, nor any sort of mounting system. I want the wings wire cut so I can then cut up a Byron's Cap fuse to build a wood fuse for it.

It has been a while since I have updated. Too busy building, ya know? I decided to do a box type of engine mount for this plane. It helped tremendously when figuring in my 2 1/2 degree of right thrust, and the engine side offset. I've got it tack glued right now, just making sure everything is true and square. Box is made of 1/8 ply, and uses 1/4" spruce stock for gusseting. I can remove four bolts, and slide the whole works out including fuel and smoke tanks (both 14 oz Sullivan flex tanks) for maintenence. I got the idea from looking at a fellow club member's Gee Bee racer. Upon further investigation, it looks like thats how the majority of the bigger birds are done. So much for being a 'visionary' .

My rubber mounts are Freightliner truck grille mounts. I payed like $14 bucks for all four. Most trucking places should have them in stock. My throttle servo (Hitec 225 MG) and smoke pump (Sullivan Skywriter) mount on the plate behind the rubber mounts. Loctite will be used all around, except for the aluminum mount to the firewall. Those are nylon locking nuts.

You might want to check the paper work on those flex tanks. It seems to me that the flex tanks are for glow fuel only. TRUST ME that you do not want a gas leak in that plane. It will turn into a huge lump of mush!!!!!!!!

http://www.sullivanproducts.com/Fuel...nMainFrame.htm

Well sonofa! It said right on the packaging the tanks came with that they are safe for glow and gas, I just had to get the gas stopper. I guess I will contacting Sullivan and ask them why they put that on there if it isn't true. Thanks for the heads up.

Just found this: http://www.sullivanproducts.com/Fueltanks2MainFrame.htm

Are they intentionally trying to confuse us? Sheesh! Guess I will fill and test for a week with raw gas...see what happens. I'll post my findings in this thread.

All of my flex tanks always said glow fuel only, but it has been years since I used one.

Being the impatient guy i am, I called Sullivan. He wasn't sure, and said that it varies by fuel additive by state. He said 2 years ago they had to reformulate their stoppers because of additive changes. Thye tested fine everywhere except California and Hawaii. He is going to email me with what the tech guys say, but I'm still going to test it for myself. It's kind of scary knowing that what may be gas proof one year, is not the next.[]

yeah no kidding!! esp for us folks that fly FOAM airplanes. We do not get a second chance if this happens to be an off year!

In responce to the byrons cap 21 I think I must have one of the oldest ones going it has close to 100 hrs on the air frame.Plane has had Q-35,Q-40,US-41 and for the last three years has had a Q-52 and this thing is not for the faint of heart as it will high speed snap as well as slow speed snap.My plane is at 17 lbs and has been repaired a couple of times but can still catch me of guard if I don't pay attention to it.That said it is still lots of fun.
Thanks John

What is it that makes this plane so snappy? From all the threads I've read about it, it sounds like I'm going to need a change of shorts and a large garbage bag for the maiden.

Also, I got a email back from Sullivan pertaining to the flex tanks:

Randy:

The gentleman who originally designed and specified these tanks is out of the office and will be for two weeks however I did to some research with our plastic resin supplier. It would seem that there should be no problem with compatability of this material blend with gasoline based on the known chemical compatabilies. Keep in mind however what we had spoke about regarding addatives. I am sure that the chemical compatability tables do not take these into account. Based on this I would reccomend testing these yourself, our offer to replace them if they fail still stands. I would note two things, one is the weight the other is the strength at the knit line (centerline of the tank). For the weight just do as accurate of a before and after weighing of the tank as possible. If you do not have a gram scale or something comparable a simple balance scale will work fine since you are just looking to see if there is a change not what it actually weighs. Please keep us posted.

Sincerely,

So I guess I will take his advice. I'm going to fill it up tonight with a 50:1 mix, let it sit a week or so, and re weigh it, and check the seams for strength.

The older giant scale planes were built more to scale demensions, as far as wing span vs length and such. Add to that building techniques of the day and the planes were usually heavier. This created the higher wing loadings and of course with the taper of the caps wing it was going to tip stall first and easily..Hense this lead to alot of full garbage cans..A plane with a 84" W.S. is expected to be around 14-16lbs now with a good 50cc engine, those were looking at 18-20lbs. I remember flying a new 300s from a company at 80"W.S. and 80" length. It was a square plane designed like the real ones, it flew at 18lbs with a G-62, the other 300s were being built with the 300 wing just lowered on the fuse giving you 84" instead of 80" weights were about the same. I built a G.P. cap 21 with a Q-52 and it came in at 18lbs, wouldn't snap unless I said to, sold it because it was too docile for what I wanted at the time. Wish I had it back...
Man how things have changed over the last 10 yrs with these big boy's....