Hi guys,
Is there any advantage or disadvantage of building an old ( 20+ year old) kit? Would the dryer wood be weaker and more likely to fail? The plane would build lighter because of the dry wood so that would be a advantage. But I`m afraid of stuctual failure do to dryer and brittle wood. Is this correct to assume this?
Frank

Hi skrez,

The age of the kit will not effect the quality of the wood if it has been stored properly and not subject to insect attack.

Assuming all wood in the kit is straight, not moldy or eaten what is important remains the same. Check that the wood is sufficiently, light, strong, dense enough for its' intended purpose.

The bad news is that 20 years ago there was a significant shortage of balsa on the world market and many kits suffered from poor quality wood. However if it is a thirty plus year old Kiel Kraft Spectre CL model I'm most interrested.

Cheers,

Colin

Hey Colin,
I purchased the kit as a package with engine and servos. I was more interested in the motor since it is brand new in the box G60 Supertigre Blue head The kit itself is something like a 60 size Ugulystik which is partly built. I have a K&B 65 motor I was thinking of putting in it just to have some fun with it.
Frank

I have had problems whit the dry wood in older kits not working well with CA. Just does not seem to hold on the old wood, in some cases. Maybe it is a lack of moisture, but I tried to finish up an older Coverite Gee Bee that had sat in a framed condition for about 10 years or so. I finally had to finish it with Titebond.

The largest problem will be building with "old' techniques

Jerry

Hi Frank,

Sounds like you have a great deal there. Enjoy!!! Terry points out a potential problem I haven't encountered as I don't use much CA and it is so humid on the coast where I live that lack of moisture isn't going to an issue.

Thanks for the info Terry it never ceases to amaze me how many different experiences people have with buidling and flying that they share here in cyberspace to help and inform us all.

Hey CMs I wonder what the accumulated years of knowledge are on this site?? May be of more interest than the number of memebers? Let me see, in my case I have one year's experience 46 times!!!!!!!!!

Cheers,

Colin

A friend of mine inherited 2 very old (25 years plus we estimate) and partially finished kits (a Trainer and a low winged sports model ) that we then set about finishing.

We did replace some of the balsa sheet and stringers plus any bits of balsa (wing ribs etc) that we thought had gone "off" due to sun exposure or had gone flowery, were tossed. But we used the old bits as templates for the new bits 1st!!!!

As tailskid mentioned, having to revert back to building techniques that we had not used for so many years was the biggest challenge. Actually it was remembering those techniques that was the challenge. Neither of us had used some of them since we built C/Line models as kids!!

We also rediscovered many old profanity's that had not used for many years as well.

(It was also sheer delight to discover that our kids did not understand what we were saying!!! At last--REVENGE!!!)

Building a wing from non laser cut ribs was hard. We did use CA but found that we had to also use copious amonts of "Kicker." (accelerator)

And yes, one ended up warped, but it was corrected with the old Window Cleaner and Brick method.

For the other one, with the lessons of th 1st one in our minds, we cheated and drilled holes in the ribs for mounting them on a Great Planes wing jig. No problems getting a straight wing then.

A third project was restoring a small 30+ year old model that was included in the bundle, back to flying condition. It was in the bottom of a box with a whole lot of bits and pieces of junk.

It was a shoulder wing model, (name or kit manufacturer unknown,) which once had had a trike undercart. We turned it into a small Stik with tail dragger gear and powered it with a Magnum .32 2 stroke.

Removing the ancient covering for inspection of the wing frame was tough. The stuff just stuck to the wing like glue. Even heat application did not cause the adhesive to come unstuck.

We had to replace most of the wing sheeting and all the hinges, which all had gone brittle and the hinge pins corroded. When we removed the ailerons we found that the the torque rods were also corroding so replaced them. It was easier to slot new balsa for the hinges, so we cut a new elevator, rudder and ailerons (used the old ones as templates)and CA'd a thin balsa strip to the wing TE and the back of the horizontal and vertical stabs, so the hinge glue would have new wood to grab.

Then we had to cut out the old and deteriorated, oil soaked wooden engine bearers which had gone flowery. We used a modern GRP mount.

All 3 were then covered with Oracover (Profilm) except for the fuselage of the restored model, which having been painted, was rubbed back and repainted with spray enamel.

Happily, all 3 models are now flying just fine.

There was also an old ringed Enya .40 in the box. The ring had seized and the carby was gummed up with old castor. The engine was stripped and cleaned and the ring freed up. We tried to get a replacement ring but it is a long OOP item, so we used the original. The engine is now powering the old trainer

We both agree that we got more satisfaction from getting these 3 flying than either of us have ever got from building a modern kit. Don't know why. Maybe it was the knowledge that these kits were pieces of modelling history that had not been seen around the place for many years.

We get a real kick from having "old timers" coming up to us to tell us how they had once "had one of those" and asking "Where did you get it from and do they have any more?"

I also have an original early 1970's .40 size Topflite "Contender" kit to build. Wood etc is all in excellent condition. However no immediate plans to start the kit yet.

So go for it skrez. Despite the difficulites of working with older plans, wood and techniques, it will give you a lot of satisaction.

(as well as help you to rediscover a lot of vocabularly that is as old, if not older, than the kit!!)

I build quite a few older kits. Have never run across problems gluing, but as stated, you may find some bad wood now and then. Some of the older instructions are really really bad. I hardly ever open them any more so it really doesn't matter, but if you need them, sometimes they are lacking depending on the manufacturer.

I always had a problem with the center wing sheeting - could never get it smooth because the die-cut ribs weren't all the same size With today's laser cut or bundle sanded ribs it's a breeze (well almost[8D]

Jerry

PS Also remember the power of today's engines surpasses those of yesteryear....most .40's today will outperform the .60's of 25 years ago.

Dont know about old techniques but the older kits sure build differently than newer ones. The instructions are sure a lot sketchier.
Thats why the ones I keep buying are being stashed until my building "skills" improve.
By the time I can retire and have the time to build em all I should be up to the task...

Fubar said, "Dont know about old techniques but the older kits sure build differently than newer ones. The instructions are sure a lot sketchier"


I built an 'old' (Red Box) Top Flite Bearcat kit a couple of years ago....the instructions were a whole 4 sheets, and mostly pictures! And that was a 60" WS scale model!!!!

Jerry

The note about CA and old wood was correct. Older wood will likely have a lower moisture content, which precludes CA adhesives from curing properly. Going to carpenter's glue solves the problem.

The accuracy of die-cut parts and laser-cut parts is moot. It all depends upon how accurately the original parts are drawn. I've seen laser parts that were not too accurate because the original drawings they were made from were not that accurate. If the kit manufacturer makes quality dies from quality drawings, die-cut parts are as accurate as any other way of making parts.

I was given A framed up 66 inch Tiger Moth A couple of years ago, I'm the fourth owner. It was A primer Balsa kit from the UK, about 20 years old. If it wasn't framed up by A master builder I would have never gotten it built. The blue prints are worse then A road map and the instruction book is thick but I'm not sure what language it was writen in?? It was all done in numbers, glue part B to X type of thing so you had to do A lot of searching, they never used A name for anything.
The plane was so old that the glue had dried out to the point if you touched something it would pop out. CA wouldn't stick so I had to use epoxy to tighten things back down.
Today the plane is A semi scale beauty and flys great with an OS 70 Surpass up front.
I think the old glue was what was keeping the Ca from sticking.
At present I'm building A GP Aeromaster 60 size that is over 10 years old. The plans and instructions are great. The wood is A better grade then any of the newer kits I have seen and the quality is outstanding. I did have to make some changes though but not too many. Hope it flys as good as it looks.

By comparison:
Great Planes Super Kaos: one double sided sheet instructions w/some pictures.
Tower Hobbies Kaos: Friggin BOOK of instructions!
Bridi Utter or Killer Kaos: two typed sheets photocopied, no illus. Guess its more of a builder's kit.[X(]
I have built the Tower Kaos, in fact I think I got the last kit version they sold.
Bit intimidated by the Super Kaos kits.
Very much intimidated by the Bridi kits.
No they aint for sale!
Building a Penknife right now to get back into the proper kit building frame of mind after a spell of ARF's...