If you can find a GP Sportster Bipe (the bipe of the Super Sportster family, long out of production) it would be ideal!

I thought that was a .60 sized plane!?!?:!?

I would have sworn when I searched tower there was a "50" in the results. I appologize. I must have mis-read.

Okay, lots of tangents going on here, so I'll address the original question. I just bought a SIG Smith Miniplane from a guy, and this plane has an Enya .54 4-stroke on it, which he says was ample power but not excessive. I haven't flown it yet. So, my assessment of the performance of this plane with the use of a Saito .65 is that it will be able to do some of the tougher maneuvers that require more power. I have the SIG Hogbipe with a Saito .91 in it, and it's all the engine you'd want in the plane, I can literally tie it in knots up in the air anytime I wish. Yet it's still manageable and can slow down and land nicely. The Smith miniplane is about a 1/3rd less in size than the Hogbipe, and the Saito .65 is about a 1/3rd less in size than the Saito .91, so without actually putting it together myself and flying it, I'd say it's got the potential to be a great match.
Just my two cents worth!

Jimbo

kolarshooter,

Forgot all about this thread; just found it again.

I saw the SunDancer 50 at Toledo. Very nice, a typical Sig ARF. I believe a Saito 65 would fly it just fine. They told me July availability, at $233 "street price". One wonders why they even bother with the facade of "retail" price???

Anyway, just reporting like I said I would. Sorry its a bit late.

$233...Sig is quite proud of their ARFs, huh?

I still have the motor in a bag here in my desk drawer.

Perhaps that plane could be a B-day gift (May is nearly here!)

Thanks for the input.

Yes,
I already placed an order for mine at my local hobby store. He told SIG that he wants his name on the first two they can give him, so I'm looking forward to getting mine. I recently bought the large Sun Dancer Bipe ARF and the workmanship is absolutely stellar.
However, I should point out that I put my order in for a SIG Little Something Extra ARF in October 2004 for a December release, then January, and after quite a few deadline push-backs I finally got my Little Something Extra ARF on April 14th, about 2 days ago. Like the workmanship on my big Sun Dancer, worth every minute of the wait. As I'm sure the Sun Dancer .50 will be.
I have a Saito .56 that I'm thinking might fit the Sun Dancer nicely. Is the .50 in the Sun Dancer for a 4-stroke size or for a 2-cycle? If it's for a 2-cycle the Saito .56 might not be enough. I can't remember if I have any Saitos in between the .56 and the .91's I have around. Guess I'll have to do some digging around in the engine storage box.... I'm into regular flying and aerobatics, not into 3-D, so maybe the .56 will be enough to make it do what I ask of it anyway. Looks like I'll have enough time to work all that out.
Off to find a thread about the Little Something Extra ARF! Then I'll probably check out the SIG site for info about the new Sun Dancer .50 ARF if it's there yet.

Jimbo

I think a Saito .56 will be a bit on the weak side for this airplane. This model is about the size of a GP Ultimate; IOW, more suited to a 70 class four banger. The display model had a YS 63 in it.

A Saito 56 will probably fly it, but I'll bet the performance would be disappointing.

BTW, I too am a proponent of "normal" flying and am not at all involved with the current rage of flip-flop antics. I say that just so you won't think I'm one of those "More POWER, Dude!!!" types who insists on grossly over-powering a model airplane. I have a Saito 56 on my Somethin' Extra; and it is just enough. This bipe will have quite a bit more drag.

Steve, thanks for the estimate on what power the Sun Dancer .50 ARF will require. It's also been my experience that my Bipes tend to need a little more power to compensate for the drag they produce with the extra frontal area. Isn't there a new Saito in something like the .70 or .72 size or something like that? I think there is, that might be just what the doctor ordered for this one. I'll check with my hobby store guy next time I'm there. (Shouldn't be too long!)

BTW, I always thought that a Something Extra would be a sweet-flying bird with a Saito .56 on it, good to hear that it will work perfectly for that. Maybe mine will have a new home in one.

Jim

Saito makes a 72 and a newer 82. Both have been well-received, according to reports on these forums. I have no personal experience with either.

I have noticed, however, that Saitos seem to be a bit larger, overall size wise, than other brands of comparable displacement. This is purely a subjective observation, and might just be my way of perceiving things. And the new mufflers coming with the Saitos now are ungainly and just plain butt-ugly. I mention this only because the muffler will be an issue with the cowl.

In fact, I would have preferred a Saito 91 for the GP Super AeroMaster I'm about to begin, but that muffler would destroy the lines of that beautiful wood cowl, IMO. So I found a NIB old-style OS 91 Surpass that will do okay.

I haven't yet seen the new mufflers, I'll have to take a look. I've had excellent luck with Saitos and really like the way they run, so I'll work around things if I have to. In fact, I hate Horizon hobbies, but I love Saitos and JR radios, so I'm stuck with Horizon, like it or not.

I've given some thought to Magnums, but my hobby shop guy has told me that Global is killing him by gouging on shipping costs, so he might discontinue all his Global products soon if they don't straighten that out. They charged him $45.00 to ship a ground package you or I could ship for 10 or 12 dollars on 2nd day air. Much as I like Magnums, that's too iffy for my liking, when I had my hobby shop I would have given some serious thought to cutting Global....or anybody.... off for gouging like that. Not cool.

So, I'll approach the engine thing slowly and see what takes shape. No need to rush anyway with a questionable release date.

Jim

<<...gouging on shipping...>>

They must be using Irwin's playbook....

There are some qualified people on this board who speak highly of Magnums, but I have never seriously considered getting one. Too many negative first-hand impressions, I suppose.

When I saw that older-style NIB 91 Surpass on a guy's table at Toledo, I whipped out the cash so fast it took my money clip the rest of the day to catrch up.

I have had a half-dozen of the older Surpass engines, before the serious corner-cutting began, and they all were simply exemplary. A new one; especially with the enviro-nazi modification to the crank breather? I dunno... I'd definitely take a Saito, ugly muffler and all, over a new-style OS, I'm afraid.

Anyway, you're right; you got plenty of time. Pondering just what to buy is half the fun...

New-style breathers are why God made drills, taps, and Dental 10-32 fittings, of which I have hundreds of. All a crankcase breather is, is a PCV valve without the valve. They probably just added a PCV valve. Replace it with a straight barb out the back. A large fuel tubing off the barb and straight out the bottom of the engine compartment, and re-tune the engine! Viola!

By the way, Magnums are really great engines, especially for the price. But they are susceptible to damage from being leaned out. They like to run rich because they unwind in the air and go much leaner once up there. Make them bubbly, and once they leave the ground and unwind they'll have no problems.. Every engine has its own idiosynchrasies, that's Magnum's. The old Fox engines had to be run even richer than that.

Jimbo

Like most engines, magnums have both a high and low end needle adj. When it is tuned correctly, those issues don't occur in this motor.[sm=rolleyes.gif]

I assume you are referring to the Magnums when you say this motor. The Magnums are made of metal. That metal is either really tough under certain conditions or really not tough under those same conditions. High and low end needles make NO difference to that situation. However, richer or leaner settings DO, because a leaner engine runs hotter, creating one of those pesky conditions I was speaking of above. Now, under those conditions a Thunder Tiger is going to hold up longer than a Magnum, and a Magnum is going to bake itself because the metals in it are susceptible to the heat created by the lean running. I've been setting both high and low speed needles for every imaginable kind of engine for 25 years now. My company field tested numerous brands of engines, one of them being Magnums, and each engine has its own idiosynchrasies, likes to be run richer or leaner, uses different types of fuels, and to imply that Magnums don't tend to run better at a richer or leaner setting because they have both a high and low speed needle is ludicrous. Every aspect of an engine, from stroke to bore to timing setting, ALL of these affect what it requires for fuel, what octane or cetane it requires, how rich or how lean it likes to run. If an engine unwinds substantially once it is in the air, it will require more fuel to do so, and if that "extra" fuel has not been accomodated by a richer setting, it WILL run lean, I assure you, whether it has TWO of EACH needle. Sometimes an engine uses the extra fuel to cool itself, sometimes extra fuel will heat an engine up. Those issues DO occur in this motor, and I assure you, those issues occur ESPECIALLY in this motor. It doesn't make the Magnum a bad motor. The Magnum is an excellent motor with a long life, as long as is it run rich enough. That is to say, plenty bubbly-sounding at full throttle on the ground.

Jim

"a Thunder Tiger is going to hold up longer than a Magnum"

I may have been born at night, but not last night.

I have had plenty experience with magnum, none like which you explain. The one thing I will say, these motors may run on omega fuels (new gallons or slightly used), but not as well as with other brands. I can think of three instances were someone was having trouble getting their magnum to idle. After they fight with everything including props, glow plugs, bearings, etc., all they did was switch fuels and the thing ran like a top.

I did have one problem with a .46 magnum. I would get the thing to run well on the ground, rich enough to pass the pinch test, and after three minutes of flight or so, it would lean out. I checked the muffler bolt to ensure it was tight, that wasn't the problem. After dealing with the people at my field who new better what they were doing, they suggested I drill out the baffel in the muffler. Wouldn't you know, it fixed it.

With all that done, Saito is a winner on the Smith Miniplane in my book.

(Last I knew, Thunder Tiger was made of metal also.)

The Thunder Tiger is made of metal that holds up to being run lean better and longer. They're all made with their own alloy mix. It'll still bake in the end after enough abuse, any of them will.. That being said, everything else in my post still holds true. Omega fuels hardly comes into it, I consider it a really cheap fuel, and it performs as a cheap fuel. Wildcat is my favorite fuel for both two and four strokes.
There are lots of measures taken on all sorts of engines that come from the factory with substandard or poorly designed or machined parts and blocked orifices. I didn't make reference to those incidents because that can happen with almost any engine manufacturer of middle-of-the-line engines, and that's not what I was talking about in my post. I never made reference to a Magnum having idle problems, or even transition problems. I made reference to how they hold up, or rather, how they DON'T hold up well when they are consistently being run too lean. When you think a Magnum has been set right so that it is running and sounding like another engine in the air, you're probably running it too lean and too mean. If that's how you like to run yours, hey, I'm not gonna stop you, and I really don't care if you don't believe me or don't want to listen to me. It'll be living in your junk engine box before long and it'll be history. Mine will still be flying and living well. We didn't test one, or five, we tested over 50 of these engines, how they were set, and how they ran, and how long they lived under each setting and condition. When a Magnum is constantly exposed to what we affectionately call "shake N' Bake" conditions (Too hot, too lean), they bake and lock up or fall apart prematurely. When a Magnum is given plenty of fuel to accomodate it "unwinding" in the air, they live as long as any other engine. That is their ONLY sensitivity, and setting it a little extra bubbly sounding at full throttle on the ground is a really small, easy measure to ensure their long life. Okay, they have one other sensitivity, but it's probably not important here. They don't like being driven straight into the ground at full throttle. Don't seem to hold up any better than any of the others then either.

Jimbo

How about one of the flair scout series.
http://www.flairproducts.co.uk/Aircr...coutframes.htm
They have some nice semi scale biplanes that don't need huge engines. I am currently building a puppeteer (my first build) that would probably do fine with your engine.
Regards,
Jock