Seems lately like there are as many, or more new posts in the Kit Building forum as in the ARF forum. I remember when there was 3-4 times more new posts in the ARFs.
I know there are some who absolutely cannot, or will not build, but I think more and more want to give it shot. There do seem to be a lot of "first builds" showing up. Way to go guys.

There's an ARF section?

The advent of laser cut kits makes building so much easier than in the old "die crushed" days. It's still true, even more now, that you cannot build a kit for the same cost of most of the ARF's out there but the sense of pride felt by building a kit or better yet from scratch cannot be equaled.

Sure hope so. If demand picks up, all the suppliers who said "there's no demand, if people ask for it we will make kits" will have to put up or shut up and we might get some decent new kits available.

To those thinking of a first build - just jump in and try it. Don't be intimidated by your lack of experience or the old line that you can't build as well as the ARF's are built. Of course you can't - you haven't tried yet. All of those veteran builders you see turning out works of art started in the same place you are at right now. It only takes the willingness to jump in and try. After a couple of kits, you will find you are building better than the ARF's AND you get to say "I built it myself" at the flying field. Once you have experienced the thrill of flying something you created with your own hands, the ARF experience will be decidely flat...


Mark

Building first nitro kit here and it is very rewarding as well as frustrating[:@]

After I'm done with all the mist**** uh...modifications, I get to fly it too.

Seriously, IMO there is nothing more rewading than seeing something you put together youself take to the air for the first time.

It may be that people that have been buying ARF's are:

A) Getting tired of seeing 5 of the same plane at the field and are looking for something different.
B) Getting tired of poor glue joints, loose covering, bad incidences, and crappy hardware.
C) Figure by the time they re-cover their ARF, fix all the bad glue joints, and replace all the hardware, they could have built the kit.
D) Wanting to take some pride in what they bring to the field, so they've decided to build a kit.
E) All of the above.

Kit building...boy, I don't know...that might lead to building from plans...and then...scratch building!
What will we do when all the planes at the field look and fly different

Wev'e been down this road many times....... The answer is no unfortunitly. Maybe builders are a bit more passionate about the hobby and there's certainly alot more to discuss when it comes to building vs arfs. I see no real world evidence for the resergance in building, quite the opposite am afraid.

Steve

I'm with Steve(rkrider)


Regards
Roby

Just yesterday I compared the identical 90 size ARF with the KIT. The ARF was on sale for $199. and the kit was $169. Where do you think the best buy would be?

So does that mean the ARF is cheaply made or the kit is over priced?

I don't think it is about the value of kits verses arfs. I feel it's all about your interest in the hobby. Some of us including me just love to build, and therefore we also enjoy the experience of flying what we build. Others just have no interest in building for whatever reason, they just love to fly. I personnally am interested in building current day general aviation planes. Hard to find. I hope that people begin to find a bigger interest in building kits.
That's my 2 cents.
chopper man

Based on what I see at the flying field, I would say that building is not making a come back. I think we chat so much here because we don't have that many builders to talk with at our clubs. Its nice to talk with other builders.

[quote]ORIGINAL: chopper man

I don't think it is about the value of kits verses arfs. I feel it's all about your interest in the hobby. Some of us including me just love to build, and therefore we also enjoy the experience of flying what we build. Others just have no interest in building for whatever reason, they just love to fly. I personnally am interested in building current day general aviation planes. Hard to find. I hope that people begin to find a bigger interest in building kits.
That's my 2 cents.
chopper man

[/quote

This pretty much is the case. ARF's are a option for the folks that just don't want to build for whatever reason, but do enjoy flying.
If you look at the ARF's out there, they have some value in them. Most are those 3D types and I as a bulider am not sure if I could build one of them as good as the manufactures do. I also can't fly 3D as my flying skills are just not there yet.
On the other hand, I have free time from time to time and flying is just not an option because of weather or other things. So to keep me from going bonkers sitting around idel I build.
YES it takes skill.
YES it costs more for sure
YES it takes a lot of time
YES the manaufactures love them as it keeps them in business. Think about it, If you weren't selling many kits and your bills are piling up would you not maybe look to ARF's if you thought it would keep bread on the table?.
Lets not knock ARF's, it is the way a lot of the new people in this hobby get started in it to begin with. I build because no ARF's we out there when I got into this money eating hobby. Now that I have been hooked on building for more years than I can remember, some how I still get a big dose of feel good when a ARF owner comes up and just looks at my plane and I have to hand him a paper towl so his drool won't get on my plane.

Tashley, I agree. Laser cutting is a godsend. At my field last week, two guys showed up with two Twists, even with the same engine. I can't talk too much, because I do have a GP Big Stik, but I love building, and I always seem to have something on the building board. I only buy one kit at a time, and then build it and start another.

Guess that depends on how much you value the relaxation that a lot of us get from glueing our fingers to various tiny parts and bits of balsa. I used to be one of those 'slap it together and get it in the air' bunch. Now, i've learned that I get more of a kick out of building something that really shows some craftsmanship, well, at least my attempt at it. Who hasn't looked closely at a very well built plane, either kit or scratch, and not come away impressed. I know a lot of guys who I really admire who many times have others fly their planes for them, simply because they're afraid they're going to crash it because of their lack of flying skills.

I really do hope that as the laser and other technologies advance, that it will be possible to re-issue a lot of the old kits on an as ordered basis.
I've even gone so far as to call some of the manufacturers of the arfs just to offer close to the same $$$ amount for a 'wood only' kit. So far, i've gotten no luck! Hopefully, when Cox comes out with their WACO later this year, they'll make a kit of it available.

and as far as the best buy on the arf or the kit... i'll take the kit any day!

quietly chewing the glue off my fingers,
mcmike

Before kit building can make a comeback, it must go somewhere. I have not stopped building kits, so to answer your question, No, kit building is not making a comeback. I'm still building as many kits as I possibly can. Maybe if I try really hard, I will be able to build more in one year. Will that qualify for making a comeback?

Bill, AMA 4720

Let me as a newbie (well to air planes anyways) key in. I bought my trainer as a arf why?, well I did not feel that I wanted to spend the time to build a plane that I was going to out grow. Now I want to build a kit why?, because thats the 1/2 the fun of it. Why do we build model cars when we can buy diecast cars? Because the building is the fun part. Just my .02.

Ya can't even buy a Stick kit anymore. [sm=cry_smile.gif]

I love to build but there just aren't any kits out there that I want to build. I'm hooked on Giant Scale Aerobatic planes, but you don't see too many kits available. The ones that are available are either 20yr old technology (Midwest) or they are rediculously overpriced. (Carden, Aeroworks)

I'd like to build a big stick. Like the current ARFs available. The GP Giant Big Stick. That would be great as a kit. Simple, big, easy to fly. It's not really on my list of usual planes to fly--but they are fun and it would be an easy kit to build and modify. Slap a gas engine on it and you got a nice Sunday flier that you built yourself.

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm actually thinking about building a Cub.[sm=red_smile.gif] GP makes a 90" Cub kit that would be perfect for a BME .90 gas engine. Or even the Sig 105" plane would work for a small gas engine. But, the GP has a semi-symetrical wing--and I like that a bit more than the flat bottom wing that Sig offers.

Just found this thread, and thought to ask if modelers fly the models they build differently than
an ARF? My impression at the club field is that the members have no real interest in caring
whether they crash the ARF or not. It seems the only thing important is the discussion of how fast the plane was going when it crashed. Have not seen any built kits at the field this year anyway.

I kind of came up with the thought that since men have yet been able to have babies, they can
bring to life something beautiful from stuff put into a box with directions. There is some connect-
ion to launching this three dimensional construction into the air as watching a child take its' first
steps. There is that apprehension as the model races down the runway not knowing if it will
fly, can you control it, or will a crash occur. On the other hand, when going to the field with an
ARF(did it once, and it flew like crap) I have no real connection to the model at all.

I have rebuilt my Eagle II several times since 1995 that really should have been scrapped, and build a new one. Just could not let the model go as the previous flying hours were so enjoyable.

What is the general opinion from everyone on this thread between ARF's, and kits?

Rich S.

That is a sad situation...

I agree, the ARF is an appliance while the built plane is part of you. I don't know if I would fly differently (I've never had an ARF) as the ARF still costs money to replace if I stuff it, but there would be far less emotion involved for the pre built toy.


Mark

Those who have been around for a while can tell if a pilot has always been an ARFer or not. Those who have built and flown of their own models tend to take the time to learn a little more about flying as well. About maintenance too.

Waaay back in the 70's I was a flight instructor for our RC club. ARF's were just becoming available. If I remember correctly, they were made of some kind of molded plastic and flew like a brick. Most folks stayed away from them and built their own planes.

You wouldn't believe some of the planes these 'new' members showed up with to learn to fly. At times, I felt like I had to redo most of the linkages etc. just to make their plane safe to fly or fly at all! Some people just don't like to build kits and ARF's are great for them. At least they show up with something a little more reliable to fly!

I will always be a builder as I actually enjoy building more than flying. When I build it, I know everything is done right and the plane tends to last longer as well. I hope more people will build kits. It adds another enjoyable level to the hobby which should be experinced-IMHO.

Scott

BTW- I'm just getting started on a 100" ws Curtiss Robin built from plans and I heard through the grapevine that my wife is getting me a Sig 1/4 scale Cub for my birthday Oh Man!!

I have'nt figured out if I prefer building, or flying. If go to the field to fly I am usually there from about 4-5 hrs and only fly 3, maybe 4 flights. If I am in the shop, I can work on a project for hours on end. But, I know I would not build anything if I could not fly it too.

I dunno but since the local hobby shop/kit paradise closed it seems kits are harder to find than ARF's.

Then kits cost as much or sometime more than an ARF which makes no sense at all. Why should a box of pre-cut wood with instructions, and plans cost as much or even nearly as much as a assembled, covered aircraft?

It doesn't matter if you have to refinish the ARF. By the time your done it's still cheaper than a kit.

A good example...

Skyshark FW-190 kit $289.95 for a .60 size aircraft
CMP FW-190 ARF $157.00 + S&H for a 90 size aircraft

Now don't get me wrong I build and I have a Skyshark Stuka partially built they're mighty fine kits. The problem is the majority would simply rather pay less and get a decent ARF than pay twice as much for a fine kit.