TopThumbs

Back in the 80's and 90's I owned a hobby shop. During that time I built, flew, and sold more planes than I care to remember.
I started getting bored with kits then came the influx of ARFS and ARCS. You ask me I sold the shop at just the right time.

Anyway during my tenure of a LHS owner I designed and built a few planes with one standing out as a superb design and excellent flyer.
I sold a LOT of them at my store built and covered but never explored the idea of kitting it untill AFTER I left the biz.
Point is they where all very well received and never had a complaint.

I recently re-set up my shop and am about to re-enter the hobby after a 12 year "break". A disability, New wife, new kids, new part of the country will do that to you.
I am interested in exploring kitting this design and would like ideas and feedback on the process.

I think ARF's and ARCS, argueably, have a place in bringing in new faces and peaking the interest in folks with the instant cratification mentality. Hopefully after they are hooked they'll slow down and discover kits, if any good ones are left.
however, I am NOT an ARF/ARC builder and would like to put together a kit for the "sport flyer"

Ideas and experiences such as:
Success stories and failers
laser cutting / cutters versus stamping
Design software
Vacuforming insights
etc.

Maybe this thread can explore some questions others may have.

Currently I am seeking laser cutting companies. I'm also interested in building my own CNC router

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Bill

ma_mulcahy

Bill, I applaud your move towards a new kit venture. Everything I've gathered about the kit process has been garnered from this site. A lot of the info is anecdotal. For example, laser cutting is slower than die cutting, but it makes tremendous sense for the kind of kit numbers we are talking about. Here's a link to a great site that discusses some of the ins and outs of producing laser cutting files.

http://www.mybloo.com/coosbay/laser/laser1.htm

I think one of the best examples I've read about is Bruce Tharpe. His kits are laser cut and fit very, very well. That is a good level of quality to subscribe to. I am currently building a GP PT-60 after 15 years away from the hobby and the quality of the parts fit leaves something to be desired. The wing ribs are supposed to sit flush on the forward sheeting, but they don't.

I just wonder about the market numbers for such a venture as to whether it would be economically feasible or not. I've seen the number 300 bandied about as the minimum number of kits that GP will tool up and manufacture. With numbers like this, it sure isn't attractive for a "big" business, but what kind of margin will that produce for a little guy?

Good luck with your venture!

Mike

mnrcaerobat

My Feedback: (197)

I'll buy one. When will it be ready. I also enjoy building, but have new children, job etc. Plus I am painting the last kit I built and painting is not my forte.

Do you have a picture to post of your kit? It seems like the only place a kit is being marketed any more is in the profile forum.

klutz-1

I recently went looking for a kit to build. I have 12 flyable planes hanging in my garage Of which 6 are arf's. What does a modler do in the winter when you have enough of these hot glued arf's. I've been looking for a Stearman PY 17 kit but can't find one. Please someone start making kits again.

Klutz _1

mmattockx

I don't know if it would help, but you might try contacting Paul Swany (kits the Mojo series):

http://www.swanyshouse.com/

and Mike Pilkenton from OMP:

http://www.ohiomodelplanes.com/

about their experiences in the niche market, small volume kit manufacturer world. Both are operating small scale ventures (Swany, especially) that are successfully producing quality products in low volume numbers. You can find RCU user names and contacts in the Profile forum for both. As someone noted, a lot of the current kits are in the profile 3D market, with a number also coming in the classic pattern area as well. The mainstream market is completely dominated by ARF's, sad to say.


Mark

e-flight22

Hey Bill,

I'm glad to see others who also have an interest in r/c airplane kits, and that cool process. i have always enjoyed the building process and find it very rewarding to see a bunch of balsa and plywood sticks, sheets, etc... turn into a r/c airplane [8D]

Im currently working on building a kit called the Griffin that i started designing from scratch last summer. I have a build/construction log at these two websites:

(1.) http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5258669/tm.htm


(2.) http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=626010



-David

SoCalSal

My Feedback: (16)

All I will add is if you get into the kitting end of it. Is do the best job you can and remember CUSTOMER SERVICE is going to make you or break you. I just recentley bought a kit from a company (Wll known one} that lazer cuts most of it's kits from others plans. The job of cutting was very, very good, top quailty wood and such. But my kit came shorted a few parts. I tried contacting this company via e-mail several times about the shorted and broken parts. Not once did the person in charge contact me about these issues. I then called this person and spoke with him. He said that he would send me the missing parts ( very good so far) but he also told me that there will always be some damaged parts in every kit ( Bull S#$T) and that I should just glu the broken parts back togeather.

This is not the best customer service I feel. And just this morning I get a e-mail from another person that said they had serious problems with this kit cutter as well.
My point is if you get into it. Then do it well and take care of your customer base. If you fail that aspect you will fail everywhere else.
Steve

TopThumbs

All excellent reply's so far. I appreciate the feedback.

At this point I have self published a book on rope making using antique rope machines and am approaching my 2000 book with zero complaints. I also manufacture custom epoxy domed pins, custom machine embroidery (shirts, jackets patches) and also imprint tiles and coffee mugs. I also operate 3 domains (websites) with another 30 in the works and offer full bleed color banners for shops and events.
I am no stranger to the manufacturing process and my customer service montra is "I strive to exceed my customers expectations, without you there would be no us"

As you can tell I have LOTS of time on my hands

I'm Semi-retired due to a disability and am really looking forward to pursuing this idea. I dont have pics yet as my shop isn't quite finished but I think I have a few stuffed in a box somewhere of a completed plane from years past. I'll try to dig it up.
I can say it's a .40 size with the concept being every surface including the fuse is a "lifting surface" This plane was conceived after reading an artical in a mag back in the 80's about a new concept in an airfoil called "the tadpole"

I basically designed an entire plane around this tadpole airfoil. I wanted to achieve just as much lift inverted as "verted" and fly a knife edge without much rudder. After about a dozen builds I think I achieved my goal.

We where pylon racing Byron Cap 21's one day and I noticed the input needed to hold a knife edge around the pole. This was in my memory when the concept arrived while reading the artical and it's been an opsession every since.

I havent touched a piece of balsa in more than 10 years so gearing up will take some time, that and my son just turned 12 (time to get him hooked) so our first venture will be a Goldberg Eagle II. This should get my blood boiling again

Please keep the ideas and inspiration coming in. I do appreciate it muchly.

Bill

Birman

Mike, Bruce Tharpe's kits ane not laser cut. Here is a piece from Bruce's web site. "The major parts found in a BTE kit are machine-cut. They are actually sanded to their final shape using templates for accuracy that rivals laser-cutting, but without the charred edges. This takes a lot of time and effort on our part, but it results in smooth, square edges that make solid contact when assembled. Skilled modelers know that firm wood-to-wood joints are a must for maximum strength."

Birman

TopThumbs

Bruce Tharpe's web site is ???

TopThumbs

never mind I found it.
for those that are as curious as I am

ma_mulcahy

Birman,
Thanks for the clarification. As usual, I had my head up my a _ _ . LOL

I probably was just projecting what I would do if I entered the kit business. It just seems fairly expeditious to create cut files and contract with someone to laser cut the parts. I've heard pros and cons about the charred edges of laser cut wood. I don't know if anyone has every done any tests to see if the charring has any impact of the bond strength of the various adhesives we use. This would be good stuff to know.

Mike

e-flight22

ma_mulcahy,


The charred edges from laser cutting can really be reduced. Until recently when i got the Griffin laser cut i never knew how versatile and effective a laser cutter can be. You can change the power of the laser, speed of the laser, and one that i found very important...the amount of air thats blown on the spot being laser cut. by blowing air on the spot thats being cut you can reduce the charring of the wood. What ive found works and what i do is to sand most of the laser cut edges to remove the charred edges. This makes it so when you CA, epoxy etc... you have the most contact and best surface to surface contact to glue pieces together. Structurally i think its stronger when you remove some of the charred edges. it usually only takes a few sweeps with the sanding block to remove it and your all set to go what does everyone else think about laser cutting and the questions ma_mulcahy has asked? Im just writing from what ive found and done, id like to hear others thoughts to

mmattockx

I scuff the charred edges with 120 grit and glue away. The tiny bit of time it takes is nothing compared to cleaning up die smashed edges, and the laser cut pieces fit perfectly after you are done with them.


Mark

TopThumbs

If I where to purchase a Laser Cutting rig...

Rv7garage

My Feedback: (10)

....why bother? Better to associate yourself with a good laser cutter, one that will keep your intellectual property confidential, and simply farm out the cutting. Cheaper for you in the short run (pun intended).

SomeSailor

I own a laser here if anyone is interested in working together on a venture. I'm an engineer at Boeing in the "real world" but am always out here in the shop running parts. I've cut many one-offs, scale ups and a prototypes for larger UAVs.

Shoot me an email if you have something in mind. Helps if you can do CAD on your own too... (ACAD, TurboCAd, Catia all are fine)

- mike

[email protected]

WhiteRook

My Feedback: (38)

thats interesting about tharpe