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Old 08-21-2007, 06:36 AM
  #76  
Rocketman612
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Have been flying and working. The covering is coming along will post some photos soon.

Pete
Old 08-22-2007, 08:35 PM
  #77  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Some work with templates got the wing done. Matching the stripes on the wing to ailerons was time consuming but turned out well.

The belly pan had to be repainted. The Ultracoat spray paint YELLOWED badly[:@] I used Testors white spray paint and it's curing before I can mask and paint the black on it.

Pete
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Old 08-25-2007, 05:23 PM
  #78  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

REALLY LOOKS GREAT PETE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Saul
Old 08-31-2007, 07:43 PM
  #79  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

FINAL ASSEMBLY

Well I'm trying to break on through with this build. I got the larger nose wheel 2 1/2 inches will be 1/4 inch smaller than the mains.

Painted the canopy silver (don't cry ) just wanted a clean look and not fool with a pilot, etc. Wet sanded the parts with 600 grit paper and used Testors metallic silver paint. The belly pan turned out great I used electrical tap to make the masking lines. Very flexible and comes off easy leaves a great edge.

Also got the Canard mounted with 30 min epoxy.
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Old 09-08-2007, 07:42 PM
  #80  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Wing fin attachment per instructions using 30 min epoxy. Alignment marks were made on the fins and checked OFTEN to be sure all stayed aligned. Elevator and ailerons were mounted. Motor bay closed. Battery mounted. I did go ahead and place the reinforcing block in the belly pan aft of the battery.

Weight at this point is 3.0 lbs. When I went to do the CG per plans on the forward marker she is SEVERELY tail heavy [:@] Moving the CG to the mid point and adding 8 oz under the Canard didn't come close to balancing. The 14.8V 2100mah battery is 8 oz and using a 11.1V 2100mah battery is a savings of 2oz. With the 3 cell lipo she was closer to balance but still needs more weight up front. The Rx is as far forward as possible.

Options are :
1) Cut into the nose and add some weight there.

2) Shorten the aft and of the fuse, if so how much?

3) 1 and 2

4) Move servos forward ( not much and still be able to have the Rx in front )

5) other????

The problem is that the plane is near the upper weight rating for the motor. Using the 3 cell pack will sacrifice performance too.

Need some opinions...

Pete
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:32 PM
  #81  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Well I was able to move the elevator servo forward with enough room for the RX.

It's a start...


Pete
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:59 PM
  #82  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Wow, your Tri-Star is looking great!!! I have moved the C.G. back to 4 1/8" aft of where the leading edge of the wing meets the fuse with very good results. This is close to the neutral pitch stability point or aerodynamic center of the craft and makes elevator sensitive, but lots of exponential fixes that. Because of the angel of attack of the canard and the asymmetrical airfoil of the main wing, negative G elevator input is more sensitive than positive G elevator input, so you may want to set up your elevator with half throw for negative G elevator. I myself, have kept full throw, it only gave me a problem one time when I overcontrolled at low altitude and the extreme negative G maneuverability startled me and I ended up with a hard landing. At no time have I been able to throw my Tri-star with this aft C.G. into an unrecoverable spin or stall, so I feel that it is safe to recommend this aft C.G. to you.

If that doesn't solve your balance issues, I would move the motor forward (and the esc into the belly pan if necessary or possible). You can figure out how far forward to move the motor by removing it and adjusting its position it on top of the fuselage while your Tri-star is mounted on you balancing setup. I have had success with the prop tips 1" away from the trialing edge of the ailerons. I don't know how much your prop bends forward at full throttle, so you may want to be aware of any prop-flex before you determine the final mounting of your motor if you do indeed need to move the motor that far forward.

If that doesn't solve you balance issues either, the next thing would be to move the fuse servos forward. Finally, I would add lead to hole drilled in the tip of the nose block. I might be easier at this point in the process to add lead than to move the servos forward, but I just hate adding dead weight to a plane so I suggested moving the servos first.
Old 09-09-2007, 12:55 AM
  #83  
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ORIGINAL: Craig-RCU

Wow, your Tri-Star is looking great!!! I have moved the C.G. back to 4 1/8" aft of where the leading edge of the wing meets the fuse with very good results. This is close to the neutral pitch stability point or aerodynamic center of the craft and makes elevator sensitive, but lots of exponential fixes that. Because of the angel of attack of the canard and the asymmetrical airfoil of the main wing, negative G elevator input is more sensitive than positive G elevator input, so you may want to set up your elevator with half throw for negative G elevator. I myself, have kept full throw, it only gave me a problem one time when I overcontrolled at low altitude and the extreme negative G maneuverability startled me and I ended up with a hard landing. At no time have I been able to throw my Tri-star with this aft C.G. into an unrecoverable spin or stall, so I feel that it is safe to recommend this aft C.G. to you.

If that doesn't solve your balance issues, I would move the motor forward (and the esc into the belly pan if necessary or possible). You can figure out how far forward to move the motor by removing it and adjusting its position it on top of the fuselage while your Tri-star is mounted on you balancing setup. I have had success with the prop tips 1" away from the trialing edge of the ailerons. I don't know how much your prop bends forward at full throttle, so you may want to be aware of any prop-flex before you determine the final mounting of your motor if you do indeed need to move the motor that far forward.

If that doesn't solve you balance issues either, the next thing would be to move the fuse servos forward. Finally, I would add lead to hole drilled in the tip of the nose block. I might be easier at this point in the process to add lead than to move the servos forward, but I just hate adding dead weight to a plane so I suggested moving the servos first.
Craig-RCU,
Thanks for the feedback. I'm not surprised by your results after reading http://adamone.rchomepage.com/cg_canard.htm and http://adamone.rchomepage.com/index5.htm

will do some calculations and see where it goes. Had already moved the ESC under the wing but will look at moving it into the cockpit area by soldering on longer leads to the motor it's weight is marginal but it may be cooler in the cockpit rather than under the wing. Adding weight in the nose will be the next step with moving the motor as a last resort. I had set throws per plans with 20% expo on both high and low rates. On call next week so Maiden is couple of weeks away now She's looking good will take better "Beauty photo's" at the field.

Pete

Pete
Old 09-09-2007, 06:03 AM
  #84  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

You are welcome. I have flown planes that range from moderately nose heavy to uncontrollably tail-heavy, so I feel I have a handle on the issue of pitch stability. My most dramatic lesson in pitch stability came when I designed a delta flying wing similar to the Balsacraft Rapier or Bruce Tharp Delta and assumed that the same 33% balance point would work for it as it did for my Goldberg Eagle2. It was very tail heavy and seemed to only want to fly straight up or straight down. I later learned that the proper C.G. for a flying wing is 20-23%. I was way off.

I'm curious to know how much the motor weighs and how much clearance you have between the prop tips and the trailing edge of the ailerons. If you can't move the motor forward at least an inch and still maintain an inch clearance between the prop and the ailerons, it might not be worth the effort to do that depending on the weight of the motor.
Old 09-09-2007, 09:50 PM
  #85  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Pete,
The sad reality with this as with any R/C canard is the you have to add quite a bit of weight up front. What I had to do with mine is add those stick on weights to the underside of the top hatch as far forward as possible. Stay with the 4 cell lipoly. You'll need the extra power. A word about take-offs: let the plane roll at least 100 feet before pulling up. Gradually add up on take off. When landing, be prepared for a long approach. This plane glides forever.

Saul
Old 09-10-2007, 03:13 AM
  #86  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Saul,
With all due respect, I have to disagree with "as with any R/C canard is the you have to add quite a bit of weight up front." I did not add any weight up front to my Sig Tri-Star. I just slightly modified the plane to shift the engine (O.S. .25fp) and internal components forward.

On that note, Pete, I have seen electric versions of the Tri-Star with the battery in the fuse and not the belly pan. It might be easier to do that than moving the motor forward any further.
Old 09-10-2007, 06:21 AM
  #87  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

I think I got it...

Adding lead in the nose and under the Canard with moving the servo forward allowed me to balance at the rear CG mark with the 14.8 cell Lipo battery. Total weight added was 7oz. The Battery straddles the CG area a good bit will get a photo to show.

Final weight is 55oz just under the 56 oz rating for the motor. [8D]

There is 2 3/4 in of prop clearence to the ground and 3in clearence to the ailerons.

Working on final installation of Rx and Radio setup for throws,etc. Will post pictures soon.

Pete


Old 09-16-2007, 03:52 PM
  #88  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Pete,

Starting my Tri-Start this week. Had one 12 years ago. Used a 05 FAI Astro Flight motor with 7 cell nicad pack. Wooden 8 x 4 prop, no landing gear. Hoped and prayed fopr a flat prop landing back then. Had 1.6 oz in the nose for weight. I still have the carcass of that old one. Thinking of making a flying wing of of the old main wing...

I got a new kit from USENET groups about 4 years ago. Perfect shape, $40.

My idea? Twin ducted fans ala the A10. Running some calcs now. I don't think an internal fan would have enough to make it perform right.

Covering scheme will be stealth, flat black with AF markings. Will post a build thread.
Old 09-16-2007, 06:04 PM
  #89  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build


ORIGINAL: Norton

Pete,

Starting my Tri-Start this week. Had one 12 years ago. Used a 05 FAI Astro Flight motor with 7 cell nicad pack. Wooden 8 x 4 prop, no landing gear. Hoped and prayed fopr a flat prop landing back then. Had 1.6 oz in the nose for weight. I still have the carcass of that old one. Thinking of making a flying wing of of the old main wing...

I got a new kit from USENET groups about 4 years ago. Perfect shape, $40.

My idea? Twin ducted fans ala the A10. Running some calcs now. I don't think an internal fan would have enough to make it perform right.

Covering scheme will be stealth, flat black with AF markings. Will post a build thread.

Norton,

Sounds like a great project. Looking forward to the build thread.


Made good progress this past week. Expect to maiden next weekend [8D]

Pete
Old 09-22-2007, 12:34 PM
  #90  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

DONE!!!![8D]

I carved into the nose and added lead bits then drizzled 30 min epoxy into the cavity. Sanded and recovered it looks great. Balanced at the rear CG mark.

Some final assembly photos with the new layout of Rx and servos. Took her to the local airport for some nice scale shots. Hope to Maiden her on Sunday if the weather is good. Will post results.

Pete
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:06 PM
  #91  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Looks AWESOME!!! You've done a nice, solid build and now I predict you will have many good years of flying this plane as I have had.
Old 09-23-2007, 02:15 PM
  #92  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Successful Maiden

First flights always some Gremlins to clear and today was no different. The nosegear is Very responsive and needed 50% expo to keep from over controlling.

First attempt at takeoff was at low rates for all control surfaces. The run started and got up plenty of speed pulled back on the stick and she would not rotate [X(] tried to stop her and turn but she dipped the wing and the result is a scuff to the tip of the horizontal stab and bottom of the rudder. We fly off asphalt.

Second attempt on high rates for elevator. Run started as before with good speed. I pulled back on the stick and she lifted off straight and level. I could tell immediately she needed up elevator trim and started to dial it in before making my first turn. On downwind leg I got the elevator trimmed and needed no aileron trim. Flight was about 7 to 8 min very smooth and handled the approx 6 to 7 mph wind ok. The E-flight Power 15 and the 9x6 prop look to be a good combination. Most of the flight was at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle.

Landing was not my best as I misjudged the sink rate and she came in steeper than anticipated in the headwind. A couple of bounces and she rolled out safe and sound.

I want to adjust the elevator throws and trim before the next flight. I also will place music wire on the tips to prevent scuffing the wing. Will post photos of this mod. Will do more next flight to asses the Tristar "flight envelope"

All in all a good day.

Pete
Old 09-23-2007, 03:44 PM
  #93  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Looks great. Nice work.

I'm clearing the bench now to start mine (along with a CAP 20 ARF...). Will be using some of your build practices. Micro servos and AXI motor though. 4 cell 2500 pack.

Will not be using landing gear. Our field is rough - in the spost where it's flat.

Expect to use folding prop configuration from Hobby Lobby, et al. From my last experience with the Tri Star, the landing gear was a major hassle. Bought TF wooden props (8x4) by the dozen. Was a great landing if I didn't break one. Eventually put a Graupner folder on it and worked like a charm.

Hit a tree branch due to pilot error and essentially killed it. 10 years later v2 is on the way!


ORIGINAL: Rocketman612

Successful Maiden

First flights always some Gremlins to clear and today was no different. The nosegear is Very responsive and needed 50% expo to keep from over controlling.

First attempt at takeoff was at low rates for all control surfaces. The run started and got up plenty of speed pulled back on the stick and she would not rotate [X(] tried to stop her and turn but she dipped the wing and the result is a scuff to the tip of the horizontal stab and bottom of the rudder. We fly off asphalt.

Second attempt on high rates for elevator. Run started as before with good speed. I pulled back on the stick and she lifted off straight and level. I could tell immediately she needed up elevator trim and started to dial it in before making my first turn. On downwind leg I got the elevator trimmed and needed no aileron trim. Flight was about 7 to 8 min very smooth and handled the approx 6 to 7 mph wind ok. The E-flight Power 15 and the 9x6 prop look to be a good combination. Most of the flight was at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle.

Landing was not my best as I misjudged the sink rate and she came in steeper than anticipated in the headwind. A couple of bounces and she rolled out safe and sound.

I want to adjust the elevator throws and trim before the next flight. I also will place music wire on the tips to prevent scuffing the wing. Will post photos of this mod. Will do more next flight to asses the Tristar "flight envelope"

All in all a good day.

Pete
Old 09-23-2007, 05:30 PM
  #94  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Norton,

Thanks,

Good luck on your build. Feel free to post some photo's. Looks like you will save a fair bit of weight without landing gear.

Pete
Old 09-26-2007, 07:08 PM
  #95  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

I wonder...could I mount the motor more towards the front and then route a drive shaft back to the rear to drive the prop? Would the shaft weigh more than the counter weight needed to balance the plane? I had over 3 oz in the front of my old Tri Star to balance it.

Probablt more hassle than it's worth.
Old 09-26-2007, 10:15 PM
  #96  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build


ORIGINAL: Norton

I wonder...could I mount the motor more towards the front and then route a drive shaft back to the rear to drive the prop? Would the shaft weigh more than the counter weight needed to balance the plane? I had over 3 oz in the front of my old Tri Star to balance it.

Probablt more hassle than it's worth.
I'd think of following Craig-RCU's idea of shortening the rear of the fuse to balance. Your at the start of the build and can plan for it rather than try and salvage it at the end.

Pete
Old 09-29-2007, 08:20 PM
  #97  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Rocketman,
CONGRADULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!! I am really happy to here about your successful flight. You mentioned you needed more up elevator trim. Sounds like it might be a little nose heavy. Try removing a little of the nose weight. Sounds like you had more than enough power. How did the batteries feel temp wise? Were they hot? How about the motor?

Saul
Old 09-29-2007, 08:29 PM
  #98  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build


ORIGINAL: slevin1

Rocketman,
CONGRADULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!! I am really happy to here about your successful flight. You mentioned you needed more up elevator trim. Sounds like it might be a little nose heavy. Try removing a little of the nose weight. Sounds like you had more than enough power. How did the batteries feel temp wise? Were they hot? How about the motor?

Saul

Saul,

Batteries, Motor were fine. Plenty of power from the Eflite 15. I agree she could be nose heavy but I will fly her trimmed as is for now, with more throw on both high and low rates. I added skids made from 4-40 pushrods to the wing tips to kepp them from scuffing. Will post photo's.

Pete
Old 09-30-2007, 02:28 PM
  #99  
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

As promised here is how I made skids to keep the wing tips from getting scuffed. I took a 4-40 pushrod and bent it as shown. The length is 1/2 inch. Then measured and drilled the holes and used 30 min epoxy to anchor them.

Got one flight in today before the winds kicked up. Takeoff a nonevent. Rolls are crisp, had to dive to get enough speed to do a loop. Have not got the landing down yet as I get a few bounces[&o] Trying to get that long shallow approach and fly her to the ground. Just need more stick time.

Pete
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Old 10-03-2007, 02:46 PM
  #100  
Craig-RCU
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Default RE: Sig Tri Star Build

Congratulations on the successful maiden! I've scraped up the vertical stabilizers a bit too on rough landings. I super-glued on some guards made of aluminum sheet where they were scuffed. Any more flights to tell us about?


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