I'm building a quarter scale Piper Tri-Pacer and have some problems. Hope someone can help me out.

There is a transition from the rear window on the right side of the plane and a transition from the left hand door/window to the fuselage shape. This is an Ikon kit and for the life of me can't fathom how this transition goes now how the windows go in correctly. I'v exhausted the internet for pics. but all are either the wrong model (mine I think is a '59) or that area of the fuselage in the pic is shaded or just plane too dark to see. Does anyone have a snapshot that shows this area or knows how this transition goes?

I've been in touch with Emil at Ikon and he sent pictures via Email but for some reason I caht open the attachments. He has sent several times so I'm told.

Help with my Tri-Pacer Art Perry

I am in the process of painting my IKON N'WST Tri-Pacer. I will post a couple pictures in the gallery under my user name. Hope they help. I am reallt looking forward to flying mine in the spring. Power is an OS120FS-E.

How would you rate the kit?

Very typical of "custom cut" kits from older plans. That means that it is a builders kit. I found a few discrepancies and omissions in the plans and instructions. There were a few pieces of wood that were not in the box. The quality of the glass work on the cowl was less than I expected. All in all, I found it to be a good building kit and the final product is a nice scale representation. I look forward to flying it. I do feel that the cost was a bit high -given the comments above. Would I buy another IKON N'WST kit? YES.

Thanks a bunch for the photos Ercoupeflyr! I can now get a better idea of the finish of the rear door/window areas. As you state, this is a custom cut kit and there are a few minow descrepancies.

One I found was that the landing gear wires as supplied were quite incorrect. They didn't take into account of the added side formers (about 1 inch in width on each side) I contacted Emil at Ikon and he made up a new master and also sent me a new set of wires. He told me he had several hundred of these kits out there and noone had told him of the landing gear error. I find that hard to believe. Yours looks correct.

What or whose wheels are you using? I bought the 4.5 inch Sullivan Skylights. They are heavier than they are light. I weighed them and I think that the three were over a pound and a half, ugh! I think I will look into the Dave Brown wheels. That will take a pound and a half off the overall weight. I was going to try to go with a new OS .91 Surpass II. Supposedly adequate if one doesn't load it up too heavily, hence the lighter wheels.

Love your nose gear. Is it a Fults or whose. Fults told me they wanted $65 for an full fork oleo job. However yours looks like a Robart?? I see you also changed the construction of the nosegear mounting area. Just not enough as shown was it. I did much the same way however bought the Fults RF-610 as suggested. Think an RF-510 might have been better.

I've been building for quite some time and finished last winter a scratch 1/3 scale Evans VP-1 Volksplane. Used a 1.2 two stroke in it. It was somewhat of a challenge but much fun.

Thanks again, Post more pics of the Tri-Pacer if you have them.

Thanks for the preliminary review (not fully accomplished until we get to know how nice it flies), you have some very nice airplanes, we build along the same taste on airplanes, you do very good work, for sure the T'pacer is going to be another knock out!

Agree with your comments on the gear wires. Mine are not correct but will do until I get ambitious enough to redo. Easy task since they screw on. The nose gear is a Robart. I had to compromise here because I wanted a correct oleo strut. Two reasons: (1) the oleo strut is much stiffer than wire type (2) the oleo strut is scale. The drawback was that I could only get a strut to handle a 4" wheel. I therefore used 4" Robart wheels at all three spots. I do not think it is noticeable. I like scale but having a useable daily flyer is more important than absolute scale to me. I covered the plane with Sig coverall and nitrate dope. I added rib stitching and pinking tape. Same size and effect as the rudder on my Chipmunk in the photo gallery. I am painting it now. Color is burgandy and cream using a factory paint scheme from 1957. I am familiar with the flying characteristics. Like all Ikon N'wst kits it will be a great flyer. My flying weight will be aprox 15 lbs. Completed with engine and servos it is 12 1/2. After paint and details it will not exceed 15.

The OS 91 FS II will certainly fly it. It will however be somewhat limited in performance. I fly my scale planes "scale". I enjoy just shooting touch and goes all day long. I have a Balsa USA 1/4 scale Piper O-59 (J3 Cub) that is cloth and dope which I fly with an OS 91 FS with a 16-5 prop. It is absolutely great but loops are egg shaped and barrel roles take a bit of a dive to build up momentum. The Tri-Pacer has a lot less wing to fly on!

If you need any specific close ups to help in your build, let me know. I will post a few pictures after I get the painting finished.

Posted a painting in progress photo to the gallery which also shows the rear door area.

Artper,

I've not built the Pacer, but have built the Monocoupe, Stinson and Taylor, and they were very similar kits to yours. Calling them "builders Kits" is being very kind! I'm like you, the price is a little high as well. By the way, could you tell me what horizontal incidence is recommended? Ddubya

Hi Ercoupflyr! I would very much like a few more pictures of how you finished the rear door on the left side at the top rear. I have the area at the fuse covered I think by your first pics pretty good. It is just when I look at the door/window rear area it doesn't seem to want to "flow" It is as if the angles are "fighting" themselves.

How does the window in the rear door fit in, you know with the two different angles from the front and rear??

On the nosegear, Fults had the same problem, I think that his largest acceptable would only take about a 4" wheel.

Since the engine will be cowled completely I'm installing a glow driver. It is one that I made from one of the modeling magazines that doesn't care where the throttle is set it operates by sensing the temperature of the plug itself and lights it when it begins to cool beyond a certain point. It works without the engine running but haven't set it up yet to the engine and plug. It has to be set to each plug as they are all have a basic different resistance.

It really sounds like you will have a nice plane when finished. I too am using Sig Koverall, nitrate dope, then I think it will be Diana Cream with orange trim. My son has given me a copy of the original owners manual and an original ad for the tri pacer so I have something to go on paintschemewise?? is that a good word?

Yes Walter D, these are "builders" kits but hey, that is what it's all about. I think one thing that very few out there have done is the laminations for the wing tips and tail feathers. This is an old style practice that works very effectively that dropped out of favor so you see a lot of "square" airplanes that all look like a Stik or Stinger or something that "someone else" built.

I am our club newsletter ed and in the winter I goad all the members to "don't just sit there, build, build, build." There is no greater satisfaction than to go out and see something that YOU built fly!

As ercoupeflyr stated the Ikon kits are for builders but they fly great so says all who have them.

Right Artper,

all the forementioned planes are good flyers. Give Ikon their due. I looked through my file this morning and came up with a clip of an article whch appeared in the January, 1990 issue of SCALE RC MODELER. It has a view of the plans for the Capital Hobbies giant scale Pacer and Tri Pacer, along with a general discussion of the full scale craft. If you wish I will be happy to send along a copy of both items. It might be helpful to get another view of the situation. Ddubya

Orange and creme will be an awesome color scheme and one not often seen. I picked the burgandy and creme because I wanted a fifty-ish color.

In a few minutes after this post I will have two pictures posted to the gallery depicting the door. I am really proud of my working door handles!

The window fit is pretty simple. You are correct that it is not a flat pane of glass. The amount of twist is minimal though and the plastic conformed really well. I used a 1/16th square inset around the inner window frame set back about the thickness of the window material from the edge. I used RC56 to glue in the window and then applied some black RTV silicone with a hypodermic syringe to the outer edge as "caulking". Makes a nice finish to the glass work.

Hi Ercoupeflyr, Thanks again, the door is the trick. What had me so balled up was that there were varied angles and for some reason I had it in my mind that the glass should be absolutely straight. Yours look great! Your painting and scheme is much above average that one sees at most fields. You must have a nice setup, me it'll have to be spray cans I'm afraid. I would like to see it finished. Now you have me thinking about that nose gear, have to save my money and think some more about that, really looks nice.

ddubya, yes I would appreciate your sending those along, I'm sure it will help me.

Kerrville, Texas huh. I went to Tivy High there quite sometime ago for one year. We lived I think either on main street or water street then moved out to the north of town to a subdivision next to "a park" As you can tell it has been so long since that it is all a little hazy. Just like my brain when it came to the door and cabin area of the Tri-Pacer.
Thanks again guys!

Artper, I understand the painting concerns. I to have been very reluctant to experiment with other forms than spray cans. I was going to use latex on the Tri-Pacer but found the colors I needed in spray cans. This plane is done in Rustoleum with Minwax Polyurethane clear coat. Most of my planes have been done in Krylon with Lustercoat for a clear. Trouble is I have to find a prototype that can be copied in spray can available colors. Spray cans work great if you choose flats and satins. A little wet sanding and a final clear coat yields a good finish.

All of the pictures I posted to the photo gallery are spray can painted. Wish I had a better digital camera to show off the results with. The DeHaviland Chipmunk is ribstitched in the appropriate places and has 9,998 rivets along its panel lines.

Ercoupeflyr, I meant to ask you in the last post how you did your door handles. I also was going to ask how you did the hingeing but I see that you doweled them then with latch/handle. Good idea. The door hinges were also wearing on my mind. I will do them the way you did, good idea.

Yeah, painting, I have used dope for so long I hate to try something else. I know that I will use nitrate on the koverall first the I thought Century 21. I've never used that before but think I will give it a try. I tried for days and days to get Coverite to respond and they never did until I went to Tower and pitched a gripe and it worked, Coverite got right back to me. They say that Century 21 CAN'T be put over ANY other paint. When I told them what I wanted to do they said " that ought to work". It may and may not. I'll let you know when I get there, if I do.

Yours is looking very good.

Artper
Originally I was going to hinge the doors. After some thought, I decided to dowel mount them because complete removal makes the access for wing mounting a lot easier.

The door handles are fabricated from brass tube and brass sheet. They are really just a simple pivoting handle with a piece of piano wire pushing into the door frame post. I used aspring from an RC car motor brush to keep the latch latched.

I posted another progress picture in the gallery.

Artper,

I dropped the documents in the mail yesterday. Should be to you before long.

Ddubya

I think that I told you that I received them didn't I? Thanks, they helped.

Did You ask about the incidence? I have something I think said that it should be 1.5deg. positive, however Ikon just says line the base wing root up with the rib/mounting on the fuselage and you will have the required incidence. That is only if you have done everything right up to this point.

Right now I have one of the wings about 85% done and it seems to look pretty good so maybe it will work that way.

Thanks again for the article. Art Perry

Artper,
Sure thing, glad to be of help. I was wondering about the horizontal tail incidence. The full scale seems to like some incidence. Been trying to get around to drawing plans for a .60 size Pacer for years. You know how that goes.
Tivey is moving to a new campus in the fall. New stadium and all.

ddubya.
sorry about the delay, just occupied and not with it,
Incidence:

I have some data from the full scale plane:

Stabilizer---1" +/- 1/2" Up

6 1/2 " +/- 1/2" Down

Ikon has it at 0 the best that I can tell.

I am into hinging and mounting the wing servos etc. presently. I spent several hours getting an aileron servo mount constructed and then it dawned on me that the same spot was where the rear strut mount had to go. Well, needless to say I wasn't a very happy camper to say the least.


Ercoupeflyr---

I got the Dave Brown wheels and they are remarkably lighter, it will take a pound off the finished bird easily. The bones of mine are now at 6 pounds.

You seem to work so fast that you probably have had yours in the air already!! If so, how does it go??

Looking for a pic of it finished. Thanks again for both of your help.

Quick question for Ercoupflyr----do you put your koverall on by doping it to the frame or do you use something like SIG stixall or balsarite?? I have always just doped it on. Art

Artper,

Thanks for the imfo. I'll store it away for future reference. Hope you will continue to post as you move along with your project. It's obvious that you are doing fabric, but what about the finish...what are your plans in that regard?

I have not flown it yet. It is ready but I need some nice weather and need to get the winter rust off my fingers. I hope to get it out within a month.

I have used Sig stix-it and just dope. Using just dope is the best way in my opinion. I like to pull the cloth tite and dope the edges all around. Then very lightly heat shrink the fabric with an iron. Next step is a good coat of dope over it all. I then shrink the fabric tight and apply another coat of dope. Be careful when applying heat to doped fabric. To much heat and it will ignite. Then you get to start over again.

The Tri-Pacer flew today! Had great weather today and could not resist the opportunity to get it in the air. The first flight was without incident and I flew a total of six flights from 10 to 1 minutes each. I will post some airbourne pictures to the picture gallery as soon as I get them scanned.

With the gear spacing that is made into the gear wires provided the plane is very prone to tipping over on the wing tips. You have to be very quick with the steering to keep it on the wheels. It took me a couple flights to get the feel and remain steady on the wheels. I think I will bend new wires and allow about three more inches in track.

I was warned that the Tri-Pacer has a quick sink rate and must be flown to the ground. This is a fact. Throttle must be carried all the way to touchdown. Without some throttle it comes down quick and flat and the elevator is not sufficient to keep it from pancaking into the runway. It can be flown down at a high angle of attack without gaining speed. Flaring for touchdown is very easy with a gentle touchdown.

The flaps are very effective and fun to use. With flaps at 30 degrees the nose really pitches up. I added about 20 percent down elevator through radio mixes and that was a tad to little.

I also mixed in about 20 percent aileron to rudder for coordinated turns. Also not enough. I will probably increase to about 40 percent.

I set the CG at the very front of the range shown in the plans. The plane seemed a bit tailheavy at that point and sensitive to pitch.

I flew it with an OS120FS-E with a Master Airscrew Classic 16x6 prop. All-in-all it was a lot of fun to fly and very scale.

Congratulations! But now we want to see the pictures!.

Ercoupeflyr!!! Super! I'm sure it flies as good as it looks. The picture of it finished looks great.

Reference the landing gear. Remember I said that Emil at Ikon made a new CORRECTED master set of landing gear wires for himself and sent me a new, correct set. I'm sure that if you sent him an E-mail and requested a new set of wires he would send them right out. It sure beats trying to bend up a set that would end up straight. I know I would have a job with that size of wire. He told me that he had several hundred of these kits out and noone had told him of the landing gear error prior to my informing him. He also was so kind to send me a few photos of the original full scale Tri-Pacer that he used to develop the kit.

I'm just now getting the wings fitted to the fuse so have a ways to go yet. Thanks for the flight info.

ddubya---

I am using SIG Koverall fabric to cover. Then about two coats of clear nitrate dope to seal the fabric. In the past I had always used butyrate dope, white all over, then color trim. The color shold go over white to give you a true, bright trim color. This time I have some 21st century paint by Coverite that I will try out. White again under and orange trim. Like ercoupeflyr I don't have paint facilities so resort to spray cans Hopefully this will turn out pretty good. Radio is going in now and have bought some carbon fiber pushrods to try out. Have never used them before but these things are very light and very stiff. I think they will work well. Am putting a strong servo on the elevators but regular in all the rest of the places. Right now the bones less engine (OS .91 II surpass) covering and radio is 6lbs. 10 ozs.

I bought a digital fish scale at WalMart that goes up to 50 pounds and it works very well. Trying to keep it light since it will be limited on power.